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Help with DW needed

I've got a completely stock 2008 Unlimited Rubi and I've recently experienced what I believe is the infamous death wobble. I've gone through PlanMan's videos and write up (a big thank you for posting this info by the way) and have found a few things. I still need a little help though.

First, I replaced the frame side track bar bolt with a 9/16 grade 8. The holes were still round and the bolt does not move in the bracket. I am noticing that the bushing gives when the steering is turned side to side. I'm seeing the track bar move 1/16" to 1/8" relative to the bracket and the axle move about 1/4" relative to the frame. Again, the bolt is not moving. This is just the bushing being compressed and perhaps the track bar flexing. Does this mean I need a new bushing or is this amount of movement normal? The axle side seems to be solid, but it is also a little harder to inspect.

Second, the ball joint on the wheel side of the drag link is bad. There is about 1/8" up and down motion here. There may be some play in the other joint as well, but it's hard to tell. My question with this one is what should I replace it with. All the aftermarket drag links I've looked at are for flip mounting them and I'm not interested in this. I'd prefer the stock position, but not necessarily the stock drag link. Any recommendations for aftermarket links or should I just stick with stock?

Lastly, the steering stabilizer is shot. I understand that this is not the cause or fix, but once the cause is corrected, I'd like to replace it. Again, any recommendations here? Should I stick with the stock or go with something else.

Thanks in advance,
John
 
Discussion starter · #162 ·
Thanks.

The trackbar bushing deflection is probably fine. Fix the drag link end problem first.

Both the Currie drag link and the Synergy/Poly Performance drag link can be run in the stock position (not flipped). The Synergy one is more affordable--last I looked.

If you off road, you will want to relocate the steering stabilizer to the top of the tie rod. Woods, Synergy, and others make a bolt on bracket to do this, and they sell an upgraded stabilizer with the bracket. That is what you want. However, unless you run tires that cause a drift to the right--like Toyo MTs--you do not want a gas charged stabilizer that pushes more to the left.


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...
Second, the ball joint on the wheel side of the drag link is bad. There is about 1/8" up and down motion here. ...
John
I've replaced my BJ with Synergy's and could say the 45 mph shimmy is away. With the new BJ steering is by far better and stiffer could say.
I've replaced the track bar and re-torqued everything down there and DW becomes memory :nono-1: only.
What steering stabilizer are you using?
 
Thanks for the advice. I've ordered the Synergy drag link. I hope to have it in hand tomorrow and hopefully it solves the problem. That Currie drag link sure is nice but I cant justify spending about 2.5 times as much. I was tempted though! :)
 
Better, but not fixed yet.

Okay, I replaced my worn out drag link joints with a new Synergy drag link. Unfortunately, the death wobble did not go away. It did get better though. Before it would start at about 40 mph, now it doesn't start until about 60 mph. I went down the list again trying to find what else is wrong, but couldn't find anything obvious like last time.
I had my son turn the wheel side to side while I'll checked things out under the front end. I still noticed a little "clunk" in the drag link but I couldn't see the cause. I could feel the same thing in the tie rod, but it was not quite as strong. The pitman arm is not loose and I don't see any play in the steering box. The tie rod ends seem okay (I do not see any vertical motion is them). I'm still seeing the track bar bushing flex (just the frame side), but the bolts tight and are not moving in the brackets, nor is there any wear inside the bushing from the bolts.
The upper and lower trailing arms seem okay. The bolts are tight, but I can't tell what sort of shape the bushings are in.
I jacked the front end up and checked the ball joints and wheel bearings. Using a pry bar, I tried moving the wheel up and down like in Planman's video. I'm not seeming much vertical motion in the ball joints, but I am seeing the wheel moving up and down and I can see the u-joint in the yoke moving up and down the same amount. There is also a slight "clunk" if you move it far enough. This is happening in both wheels. I thought the wheel bearings were bad, but when I grab the tire and try to move it, it's solid.
Any expert advice on what I should attack next?
I put a new, sacrificial steering stabilizer on and am keeping the speed down. I need to still use the Jeep to get back and forth to work, but I don't want to make things worse.
Thanks for any help or advice you have to offer.
 
Discussion starter · #166 ·
Max,

There should not be a clunk when you use the pry bar to check for up and down play in the lower ball joints. So those are suspect.

You will need to remove the trackbar to inspect the bushings and the bracket bolt holes.

Speed dependent wobbles/vibrations that hale every time you reach a given speed are nearly all tire or wheel related. They could be out of balance, a wheel could be damaged or bent, someone could have failed to remove the stock lug retainer clips when installing aftermarket wheels or wheel spacers, a tire could be out of round, etc.


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Thanks for the input Planman. I should explain that the first thing I did was to move the rear tires to the front axle to see if it was a tire issue. It made no difference.

As for the speed related issue, I should mention that I've been doing this test over the same stretch of road. It is relatively rough, but almost consistently so. It's not filled with bumps or potholes, just slightly rough if you know what I mean. The first time I experienced this problem was on this road doing about 60 mph. Over the course of a week it got progressively worse until it got to the point where it would happen at 40 mph. The old steering stabilizer was leaking oil, so I just figured that this progression was due to the stabilizer getting worse and allowing the DW to surface with less of a disturbance input. During all this time I was keeping the speed down and trying to prevent the DW from starting. It happened a total of 4 times. Each time I was able to hit the breaks almost immediately and come to a stop very quickly. I have not tested it again since putting on the new steering stabilizer as I know the problem has not gone away.

Regarding the track bar, I did remove it and inspect the bushings and brackets. Everything looked okay. I did however replace the M14 fasteners with 9/16 bolts. On the frame side I was able to use some washers with a longer bolt so that only the unthreaded shoulder is going through the bushing and bracket. I was not able to do this on the axle side though. The bolts are not moving in the brackets. The frame side bushing is getting worked quite a bit and it is compressing about 1/8" under load. I'm probably going to try replacing this bushing with the one Teraflex sells. I figure it can't hurt. Do you know if both ends of the track bar take the same bushing?

When I did that test of moving with wheels up and down using a pry bar, the yoke holding the wheel assembly did not move much at all (just a few thousandths). What I noticed moving a bit was the u-joint inside that yoke. That makes me think the wheel bearings inside that yoke are worn, but when I shake the tire up and down and side to side it feels solid. If I push hard on the pry bar I do hear a slight "clunk" sound though.
I know the ball joints are still covered under warranty, but I'm not sure about the bearings. Maybe I'll take it to them and have those joints and bearings inspected for wear. I'm reluctant to take it in though because those guys seem to be pretty clueless about DW.

As for the tires, they are worn, but I was hoping to get at least another 6 months out of them. Based on what you said though I guess I'll be looking for new tires this weekend, for the front axle at least.

Thanks again for your help. If you have any more thoughts I'd love to hear them.
John
 
On the holes for the track bar bolts, how much wobbling or movement is too much? I have replaced the factory bolts with the bigger ones as instructed, I did notice the hole seemed bigger and the new bolts wobble..but not much at all.

How do you know what is to much vs continue to look for additional issues?
 
Discussion starter · #169 ·
On the holes for the track bar bolts, how much wobbling or movement is too much? I have replaced the factory bolts with the bigger ones as instructed, I did notice the hole seemed bigger and the new bolts wobble..but not much at all.

How do you know what is to much vs continue to look for additional issues?
What you're describing with the new bolts sounds just fine.

Have you watched the two YouTube diagnosis videos?




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Yes, I have watched them and they were a lot of help. Still have the death wobble unfortunately. Trackbar bolts was my first shot, being it was so cheap and easy to fix. Going to have to get some help and start the check list over again.

I was hoping to buy a lift this month, but looks like that money will go to anti death wobble parts instead.
 
How did the track bar ends look? If they moved a lot or easily with your fingers they are probably shot. Post a pic or video of the teak bar ends
 
2012 with the wobble

Glad I found this post... just wish I had of read it before installing my 2.5 inch springs and Kings...

So after spring and shock install with extended sway bar links and a rear track bar relocation bracket, I found a violent steering wheel shake on test drive. I limp back to the house, thankfully around the corner and start looking for issues. I did not loosen all track bar and control arms first, as I had not read the post till after the install, but found the vids etc and proceeded to run through the checklist.

Nothing in the front end seems out of spec, but I did install a steering stabilizer flip bracket and noticed that the stock track bar bolt may not have been torqued quite enough. There did not appear to be any play in the bolt, so I just re-torqued.... Appears to be my fix.

However, I now have a very light on center feel where as before the jeep had a heavier steering wheel feel. Felt more planted and front heavy stock. Could a 2.5 lift really cause a camber issue? Do you think that my toe in/out adjustment is off? What causes the light on center feel??

Thanks
 
Discussion starter · #175 ·
Glad I found this post... just wish I had of read it before installing my 2.5 inch springs and Kings...



So after spring and shock install with extended sway bar links and a rear track bar relocation bracket, I found a violent steering wheel shake on test drive. I limp back to the house, thankfully around the corner and start looking for issues. I did not loosen all track bar and control arms first, as I had not read the post till after the install, but found the vids etc and proceeded to run through the checklist.



Nothing in the front end seems out of spec, but I did install a steering stabilizer flip bracket and noticed that the stock track bar bolt may not have been torqued quite enough. There did not appear to be any play in the bolt, so I just re-torqued.... Appears to be my fix.



However, I now have a very light on center feel where as before the jeep had a heavier steering wheel feel. Felt more planted and front heavy stock. Could a 2.5 lift really cause a camber issue? Do you think that my toe in/out adjustment is off? What causes the light on center feel??



Thanks

If you got more than 2.5" lift from your springs and are running stock control arms, your caster could be low enough to result in wandering.


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Thanks planman... was afraid of that scenario.
BTW.. the 9/16 track bar bolt upgrade. What length bolt and shank length do you use on the axel side?

Also, will a synergy track bar bracket (axel side) work with stock drag link? their web site says drag link flip fit needed
 
Discussion starter · #177 ·
Thanks planman... was afraid of that scenario.
BTW.. the 9/16 track bar bolt upgrade. What length bolt and shank length do you use on the axel side?

Also, will a synergy track bar bracket (axel side) work with stock drag link? their web site says drag link flip fit needed
3"

No. The Synergy bracket is designed for a relocated trackbar and drag link flip.

JKS makes a reinforcement/brace bracket for the trackbar to be run in the stock position.

http://www.northridge4x4.com/shop/jks-jeep-jk-wrangler-2007plus-front-trackbar-brace-ogs161
 
Planman,

Just want to start of by saying i appreciate you helping us newbs(me personally). I havnt done most of the inspection youve showed us but i did do a quick inspection underneath while my wife turned the wheels. It seemed like like my trackbar bracket ovaled(i didnt get to take the bolt off since i dont have tools).

I was reading online people have said it's better to just replace the trackbar with TF adjustable trackbar instead of just replacing the bracket? And just get the bracket welded? I'm confused. LOL sorry i'm used to lowering cars and just last month bought my jeep and now experiencing DW

Here's is a video of my bolt
2012 jeep Jk trackbar bolt(axle) - YouTube
 
Planman,

Just want to start of by saying i appreciate you helping us newbs(me personally). I havnt done most of the inspection youve showed us but i did do a quick inspection underneath while my wife turned the wheels. It seemed like like my trackbar bracket ovaled(i didnt get to take the bolt off since i dont have tools).

I was reading online people have said it's better to just replace the trackbar with TF adjustable trackbar instead of just replacing the bracket? And just get the bracket welded? I'm confused. LOL sorry i'm used to lowering cars and just last month bought my jeep and now experiencing DW

Here's is a video of my bolt
2012 jeep Jk trackbar bolt(axle) - YouTube




Good catch. It's up to you. A stronger track bar will help but won't solve the problem. You need add the 9/16 shouldered bolts and either weld washers on or replace the mount. ARTEC/Synergy make factory or raised replacements.
For the Upper mount Synergy offers a bracket that mounts right over the factory mount.

It's very important to fully inspect every front end component including ball joints. DW can cause a lot of damage.


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Well yes ofcourse the bolt would be also be replaced with a 9/16.

It'll be easier for me to replace the whole bracket since i dont have access to a welding machine. but I just read somewhere online if i replace the bracket, im going to have to replace pretty much everything else, is that true?
 
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