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Seperation of bushing question

Planman - great information. Working through your DW checklist again and have a question on what exactly is bushing separation? Is it the the metal sleeve that goes through the middle of the bushing separating from the bushing or is it the bushing having play between the bushing and the trackbar/control arm.

Below is a pic of my track bar with pressure applied by a screw driver. Would the gap shown be separation? Only happens on the side with the arrow, no gap on the other side with pressure applied.

Thanks,
 

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Discussion starter · #63 ·
Planman - great information. Working through your DW checklist again and have a question on what exactly is bushing separation? Is it the the metal sleeve that goes through the middle of the bushing separating from the bushing or is it the bushing having play between the bushing and the trackbar/control arm.

Below is a pic of my track bar with pressure applied by a screw driver. Would the gap shown be separation? Only happens on the side with the arrow, no gap on the other side with pressure applied.

Thanks,
The concern is separation from the bolt sleeve in a bushing that is made of rubber (i.e. Clevite rubber bushings on stock or aftermarket arms).

Your pic above is not an issue. When the bolts are torqued to spec--125 ft lbs--there is no problem with a polyurethane bushing.
 
The concern is separation from the bolt sleeve in a bushing that is made of rubber (i.e. Clevite rubber bushings on stock or aftermarket arms).

Your pic above is not an issue. When the bolts are torqued to spec--125 ft lbs--there is no problem with a polyurethane bushing.
Thanks - I can rule out the track bar and LCAs as the cause. Appreciate the quick response.
 
Have a ? when going through the OP it says there should be no movement in the tie rod correct? I can move both the tie rod and drag link by hand and the rubber seals or bushings around them look flat. is this correct or is this the error in my shaking? :beer:
 
Have a ? when going through the OP it says there should be no movement in the tie rod correct? I can move both the tie rod and drag link by hand and the rubber seals or bushings around them look flat. is this correct or is this the error in my shaking? :beer:
If you can just rotate them, that is normal. Slop within the actual joint and the ball socket is where should not be play.
 
Ok so im guessing thats the first thing i need to take care of. Its my first time going through this so ill take a pic of exactly where its moving. I can move it hard and fast enough to hear it clank
 
Discussion starter · #71 ·
up and down as if the bolt were loose? not the motion where the rear of the dust boot is compressed and the front is not kind of like this "<" ?
Up and down like when you pull your finger and the knuckle pops.

Here is a sample drawing of a tie rod end (not a JK):

Image



If the ball shape at the bottom of the stud can be pulled up out of the cradle, the end is bad.

End design allows the tie rod rotational play so that the suspension can cycle without breaking off the end.

However, if there is side-to-side play in the cradle or there is in-and-out (up-and-down) play of the stud in the cradle, the end is bad.
 
Got alloy wheels coming now. It seems there can be issues with bolt hole precision on steel wheels. Also, the same shop that will do the mount/balance on the new wheels, also has a mechanic that has a skill for diagnosing and resolving shimmy on everything from passenger to PeterBuilt.
Hopefully the Wheels eliminate the last of the shimmy.
Everything else is tight. All the bolts. Even did the 9/16th swap on the track bar.
Another hint that it could be the wheel is that I feel the vibration in my seat too.
I will report back the results.
 
Got alloy wheels coming now. It seems there can be issues with bolt hole precision on steel wheels. Also, the same shop that will do the mount/balance on the new wheels, also has a mechanic that has a skill for diagnosing and resolving shimmy on everything from passenger to PeterBuilt.
Hopefully the Wheels eliminate the last of the shimmy.
Everything else is tight. All the bolts. Even did the 9/16th swap on the track bar.
Another hint that it could be the wheel is that I feel the vibration in my seat too.
I will report back the results.
what happened with your steel wheels? i looked through this thread but couldn't find a lot of info on your problem, looks like you're on another forum too? anyways, i ask because i have also been chasing a shimmy/DW for months now and have had a few issues with balancing my tires/wheels and everything else seems to be ok, or at least they were last time i checked, can't say the same now.
 
Got alloy wheels coming now. It seems there can be issues with bolt hole precision on steel wheels. Also, the same shop that will do the mount/balance on the new wheels, also has a mechanic that has a skill for diagnosing and resolving shimmy on everything from passenger to PeterBuilt.
Hopefully the Wheels eliminate the last of the shimmy.
Everything else is tight. All the bolts. Even did the 9/16th swap on the track bar.
Another hint that it could be the wheel is that I feel the vibration in my seat too.
I will report back the results.
Yup. That did the trick. I'm guessing the steel wheels were the problem all along. Or at least the major contributor.
Now I am ready for the drive north to Boston.
 
Yup. That did the trick. I'm guessing the steel wheels were the problem all along. Or at least the major contributor.
Now I am ready for the drive north to Boston.
but what about them was causing that? i would assume that a normal steel wheel wouldn't cause issues...
 
Discussion starter · #78 ·
It is not uncommon for steel wheels to be untrue/bent.

Whenever you buy wheels--especially steel wheels--it is important to have your tire shop run them on their balancing machine before mounting the tires to check for bends/untrue or other problems so you can return a bad wheel before it has a tire mounted on it.


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With my steel wheels they balanced fine. I believe the issue was tgat the bolt pattern was off just enough that the added weight of 37s made the imperfection became more obvious.

Image


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Discussion starter · #80 · (Edited)
Here is a video of a stock 14mm trackbar bolt in a stock trackbar bracket with a 9/16" hole.

This is why it is important to remove the trackbar to inspect the bracket holes for ovaling.

This is why it is a good idea to replace the stock bolts with 9/16" grade 8 bolts.

This is why it is important to re-torque the trackbar bolts at each oil change interval and after every major offroading trip.

Because dealers rarely remove the trackbar to inspect the bolt holes and replace the stock hardware with 9/16" bolts, they miss the most common source of DW.

Stock JK bolt in stock trackbar bracket hole - YouTube
 
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