[StubEXrube]

I have a Warn 8000xi winch and my steel 5/16" cable is about shot. I am going to go with a 3/8" synthetic line to replace it.

Does anyone know if 100 ft of 3/8'' synthetic line will spool up completely on the drum? If it was 100 ft of 5/16" then I wouldn't be concerned...but with the thicker diameter line, I am wondering (?).

Also, I am considering the Viking combo fire line, but can't decide if that's overkill. The first wrap of this line is heat resistant to 450 degrees (I think). Has anyone experienced a synthetic winch line "melting" onto the drum? I never realized that heat may be an issue with synthetic line, however...if anyone has seen this happen ...please advise. Thanks for help on this.

 

[WTF_LOL]

it will fit, that is bassically thesame setup I went with.

I got the FireLine. That winch can get really hot when it is brakiing. On a long winch or braking that is the last thing you want to worry about!!

BTW, the FireLine is heat resistant thorough the whole length. It is the Red one. They have another line, I am forgetting the name right now, that has only the first 25 or so feet that is the fire line and the rest is the standard line.

 

[StubEXrube]

Thanks for the info WTF- LOL. Do you think that there is a lot of heat build up all the way down the line or just at the spool? The all red Fireline is a little expensive especially with needing a new alum fairlead as well. I guess that there could be a lot of heat build up inbetween the sleeve/ line protector and the line itself if it is resting on a rock or around a tree or something. Any thoughts on this? The other one is (I believe)called the Fire Line Combo- because it is a combination of the fire line and the standard line...I think(?)

 

[Bigjerm]

it should fit but why go bigger? Whats the break strength on the 5/16 vs the 3/8? When I had synthetic on my Mile Marker it never melted during some heavy winching BUT I always worried about it so the heat resistant thing would be a nice piece of mind.

 

[WTF_LOL]

Thanks for the info WTF- LOL. Do you think that there is a lot of heat build up all the way down the line or just at the spool? The all red Fireline is a little expensive especially with needing a new alum fairlead as well. I guess that there could be a lot of heat build up inbetween the sleeve/ line protector and the line itself if it is resting on a rock or around a tree or something. Any thoughts on this? The other one is (I believe)called the Fire Line Combo- because it is a combination of the fire line and the standard line...I think(?)

Well, the combo line would be fine but, If I remember right, the all trail line and all fire line are the same price. It is the combo line that is a hundred dollars more.

TheTrail line has a higher breaking point. If you have a type of winch that does not get hot, go wiith the trail line. The type of winches you and I have are the type of winches you would want heat resistand line for. If you can afford it, get the combo line. That way you will have the heat resistance where you need it and still have a stronger line in the section that gets used most anyway. If you can not afford the combo line (as I couldn't) just get the full Fire Line. It will have slightly less strength then the combo line but will still be plenty strong at 3/8's.

 

[WTF_LOL]

it should fit but why go bigger? Whats the break strength on the 5/16 vs the 3/8?

It is worth it in my opinion tho go with the 3/8's. YOu could fit 25 more feet on with the 5/16 but you loose quite a bit of strength.

Our Viking Trail Lines are rated at 13,000 lb (4,6 metric ton) for the 5/16" and 19,600 lb (6,2 metric ton) for 3/8"

13k is strong but another 6.6K is nice! Especially since you are only giving up 25 feet of line. Not to mention it is more material. If the line cuts or gets frayed a bit it just gives you more material to work with.

When I had synthetic on my Mile Marker it never melted during some heavy winching BUT I always worried about it so the heat resistant thing would be a nice piece of mind.

Long winching can generate some heat but the biggest problem would be if you needed to winch yourself down something. for example, you are in a bad situation and you need to winch OUT using the power of the winch. There is a brake ion there (with this type of winch) that makes the winch get REALLY hot REALLY fast. It is not too often that you would be in this situation but, if you ever where, the LAST thing you want to be thinking about is your rope melting!! lol.

But really, the prolem with heat is over the years of winching the heat will break down the first couple of layers of line. Especially with this type of winch that tends to get pretty warm. Then one day you need to winch with the full length of your rope and that strength just is not there any longer.

While you are recovering, it is usually not just on flat ground pulling a light rig, otherwise you would have just used the strap, right? In my experience, a lot of the time the winch is out, it is some crazy situation, somebody off camper till it is winched up and with tons of weight on the line. I just take the position that when it comes to winching it is good to have strong, new equipment not only for saftey but for peace of mind. Especially while your rig is hanging half way over a ridge and your almost there, almost there!!!....

 

[WTF_LOL]

Just wanted to add that the Fireline (@ 3/8) is only 1,600 lb less breaking strength then the Trail Line

 

[StubEXrube]

This is some great added insight. After some more research...it is almost making it more difficult to decide...lol

$159.95 Viking Trail line/ 5/16" x 100' + 10' line protector/ 13,700 lbs
$178.00 Master Pull line/ 5/16" x 100' + hook & 12' drum protector/ 14,500 lbs
$204.95 Viking Combo line*/ 5/16" x 100' + 10' line protector/ 13,000 lbs
* first wrap is Fire line
$209.95 Viking Trail line/ 3/8" x 100' + alum fairlead & 10' line protector/ 19,600 lbs
$214.95 Viking Fire line/ 5/16" x 100' + 10' line protector/ 13,000 lbs
$246.00 Master Pull line/ 3/8" x 100' + hook & 12' drum protector/ 23,000 lbs
$269.95 Viking Combo line*/ 3/8" x 100' + 10' line protector/ 18,000 lbs
* first wrap is Fire line

So those are my choices- The $209.95 Viking includes fairlead (which I need) the others do not.
I dont quite understand the Master pull units that have a "drum protector". Not sure if this is for heat from the winch or to ward off abrasions?
Also am not sure what advantage/ difference there is between the ($9.00) crush proof thimbles and the safety thimbles ($35.00) with the Viking units?
The option of a hook on the Master Pull units, seem unsafe...Not sure about that as well?

Any more advice or opinions on this stuff would be very much appreciated also. Thanks again...

 

[mcnaught6]

it should fit but why go bigger? Whats the break strength on the 5/16 vs the 3/8? When I had synthetic on my Mile Marker it never melted during some heavy winching BUT I always worried about it so the heat resistant thing would be a nice piece of mind.

rarely will more than 100 foot be needed. i would recommend carrying an extension line for the small chance that you might need that extra length. to me, the fact that you rarely need more than 100 foot is good enough reason to go with the 3/8" line, even though you can't get 125 foot to fit with it, as you could with the 5/16" line.

 

[mcnaught6]

i'm not sure what the drum protector is either. maybe it is a typo and should be "line" protector instead.

if you can afford it, i would go with the 3/8" viking combo line. the safety thimbles are really a great thing.
check out this link to see the difference between the safety thimble and the crush-proof thimble. with the safety thimble, you don't need a hook. with the crush-proof thimble, you have to by a separate hook (well, you don't HAVE to, but i would recommend it).
Winchline.com Hooks/Thimbles

also, you can use a metal roller fairlead with a synthetic rope. i do, and know lots of people that do it. you just have to make sure it isn't all scraped up and/or gouged from using a wire rope on it in the past. scratches or gauges will potentially damage a synthetic rope.

 

[WTF_LOL]

I dont quite understand the Master pull units that have a "drum protector". Not sure if this is for heat from the winch or to ward off abrasions?

It is another solution to the heat problem. Some people run 10 to 20 feet of line protector on the first wrap of the drum. helps ward off heat. While I am sure it helps heat transfer from the line touching the drum it is still the same line underneath it all!

I still would really recomend either fire line or combo line with a Planetary gear winch. I'm tellin ya, you ever felt a planetary geared winch after winching a rig down a hill? Even stopping every few minutes the thing gets HOT!

 

[StubEXrube]

Thats what I was thinking as it specifies that the "protector" in this case, is actually located at where the first wind is...at the spool. I think the Viking w/ the combo 3/8" fire line may be the best solution. Kinda funny...The two least used things on (most) jeeps are the two things that should really be the best quality...The winch/ cable, and the roll cage...lol

 

[07_Rubi]

does the Warn 9.5Ti get hot also? I might go synthetic soon too...

 

[StubEXrube]

I beleive that it is planatary gear driven as well...Advantage of the 9.5ti is that it is driven by a Bosch new generation motor and that it uses a thermometric indicator that lets you see via LED indicator, the operating temperature of the motor.

 

[07_Rubi]

yea, i never pay attention to the led lights ...maybe i should the next time.

 

[mcnaught6]

I beleive that it is planatary gear driven as well...Advantage of the 9.5ti is that it is driven by a Bosch new generation motor and that it uses a thermometric indicator that lets you see via LED indicator, the operating temperature of the motor.

by the time the light goes on, the drum is already pretty darn hot. the light just lets you know to stop winching so you don't damage the motor.

 

[John L]

I'm running a Powerplant with 90' of 5/16" Viking Fireline with the safety thimble and HD line protector, 10'. It pulls through a Shrockworks aluminum fairlead.

I don't care for the combo line because there is a splice between the two. If it's done right, OK. If not, are you willing to risk it?

On the fairlead...

Yes, you can run a roller with synth line, but if you have to do a weird pull it *might* get hung or drag between the rollers, not good. Plus you lose the weight of the rollers with the hawse and if you mash the rollers on rocks it may render them useless.


There are also UHMW (delrin?) fairleads out there, cheap and they won't gouge like alum will.

On the thimble, it works great. I've had many a pull with it, be it vehicles or tree limbs after an ice storm. It can't be pulled through the fairlead (too big), you won't mash your hands or fingers unless you're doing something you shouldn't, and it looks way cool. I can't count the times I've gotten the "WTF is that?"

 

[TEEJ]

I have 125' of MasterPull Superwinch Line on my Warn 9.5 xp....been there for many years now, never ever a problem. Its 5/16", with a a breaking strength over 20k lbs....and an abrasion and UV resistant coating over the rope.

The overheating on the thermo sensor units is to help prevent overheating the winch MOTOR, not the drum.

The drum doesn't get hot enough to be an issue, unless you are LOWERING under power, like letting yourself or another truck down.

That generates heat.

There are some winches (Superwinch IIRC for example...), that have a different brake mechanism, which doesn't heat the drum, and would, in that respect, be better in general for synthetic lines.

I've never had too much need for long lowering periods, maybe its the terrain or wheeling style...but, when needed, you can FEEL the heat being generated, and, pace the drop accordingly.

The most common use is to pull, so, generally, heat is not an issue. If you lower with the brake a lot, its a good idea when lowering to either use a winch with the brake outside the drum, like the Superwinch, or lower with an eye (Hand?) on the heat build-up, and consider a winch line with good heat resistance.

I have never heard of a factory splice breaking, and the lines with higher temp ranges are weaker in general.

If the winch only pulls 8k lbs for example, how much more than 10k or so needed in line strength may be more academic.

As for 3/8" and 5/16" swaps...generally, the 5/16" stuff allows more linear feet of rope to fit on the spool. Some ropes are more giving on that issue.

The softer/floppier ropes can pack very tightly. The MasterPull line with the outer layer is harder, and doesn't collapse like the softer lines, so it wraps more like steel, and less will fit on the spool than with a softer rope.

IE: I spooled 125' of synth rope onto the winch that came with 125' of steel rope...and it was tight...if I'd gone with 3/8", it would NOT have fit.

The same winch now only ships with 100' of line, mostly because the 125' of wire rope was a really tight fit.

Where I wheel a lot I NEED 125' though. In rocks, sure, I rarely use anywhere near that (Sometimes...), but in mud bogs...almost ALWAYS.

Its just that in the Pine Barrens, etc...you have to go FAR to find SOMETHING to hook up a line to. Scraggy little pines are NOT going to anchor a pull from sucking mud....

...If recovering another truck...you can't be IN the muck they were stuck in, you must be out, on solid ground, or at least more solid ground...and sometimes, tethered to a conga line of OTHER trucks who are acting as anchors...to keep YOU from being pulled to the stuck rig, instead of the stuck rig being pulled TO you, etc.

 

[mcnaught6]

i'd rather only have 100 feet of 3/8" rope and use an extension for anything needed beyond that than go with 5/16" just to have 125 feet.

this is most significant when pulling out of thick mud/muck, where the extra pull weight added by the suction and mass of the mud really adds up fast.

 

[TEEJ]

The MasterPull winch ropes at 5/16" are good for 21,000 - 23,000 lb.

That's stronger than the Viking 3/8" line listed above.

So - If you WANT 125' of line, and you want it strong, get 125' of 5/16 line that can pull over 20K lb, instead of 100' of 3/8" line that can't pull that much.

Me, I'd rather reach further AND pull harder.



(The lines are not all the same. They have common elements, but, they have important differences. That includes price. After a point of diminishing return, the line is stronger than you need it to be, and, using a telephone pole thick cable is not going to make your recoveries easier. Think camera megapixels...after 3-4 million, most of the extra is typically just using up hard drive, w/o making the picture nicer. - If you don't NEED the extra length, or strength, a less expensive line can be a great choice )