"Contemplating a V8?Why spend weeks pulling the frame off your new chassis to put in an old motor
Why spend up to $25000.00 to have a shop supply parts and labor
Why worry about emission laws and custom exhaust
Why spend more at the pump, with our kits you can still use 89 octane
Why add 500 pounds to your Jeep
5.7L HEMI’s only make 270whp & 280ft/lbs of torque"

All right guys I got a chuckle out of this and think it's going a little too far.


Point 2: Our LS swaps start in the high $13's turnkey. To be fair most Hemi swaps are less than $25k.

Turnkey for $13k? How that is possible. The kit is $7k, install is $5k, leaving $1k for engine and trans?

In the original post it was stated that swaps start in the high $13's turnkey.

 

I'm pretty sure Point 2: is a complete ******* lie.:shitstorm:

Don't think of it as a lie, think of it as a "Best case scenario".

 

"Contemplating a V8?Why spend weeks pulling the frame off your new chassis to put in an old motor
Why spend up to $25000.00 to have a shop supply parts and labor
Why worry about emission laws and custom exhaust
Why spend more at the pump, with our kits you can still use 89 octane
Why add 500 pounds to your Jeep
5.7L HEMI’s only make 270whp & 280ft/lbs of torque"

All right guys I got a chuckle out of this and think it's going a little too far.


Point 2: Our LS swaps start in the high $13's turnkey. To be fair most Hemi swaps are less than $25k.





In the original post it was stated that swaps start in the high $13's turnkey.

I'm pretty sure Point 2: is a complete ******* lie.:shitstorm:

 

Our base swap with a low mileage 5.3 and no options runs in the high 13's.

We charge $5k labor, $5,195 for the install kit plus the powertrain. A good iron low mileage 4.8 or 5.3 runs about $2,500 with a transmission. We add the upper exhaust, trans cooler and some miscellaneous items. With this swap we reuse the JK driveshafts, radiator, transfer case, rear exhaust, stock suspension and more. It is very similar to the 5.3 JK in the video; however, that JK had the BCM package which adds OE cruise control and electronic tapshift.

Anyone wanting to ship their JK to Vegas can fill out the builder form on our website and will be given a quote. Our installers around the country set their own price so these prices do not apply to them; although, we try to stay close.

The LS JK is not as new as most of you think. We have had JK's with LS's on the road for 5 years now, the kit has been greatly rationalized which has brought the cost down. We manufacturer all our own hardware, harness and electronics, the only outsourcing we do is powder coating.

We are constantly improving the kit to make it more affordable, the LS is awesome in a JK and we need to get the price point to a level that will open it up to the larger market, not just he guy with $20k disposable income - were getting there.

Our new integrated module has combined virtually all the electronics into one small package eliminating much of the redundant hardware while reducing the time to install the kit.

I just wish I knew about you guys before I did the Hemi. It would of been nice to have another options. My total came to around $13,500.00 so know it could be done.

Does that include cruise and tap shifting?

 

Well I have been running a 3.8 on 40's and 5.38's 6sd for a couple years with the RIPP. I have installed and run on a 3.6 as well with 4.10's and 35's auto.
I have also run and installed a Magnuson on a 3.8 with 40's and 5.13 auto.

Love the RIPP product. Easy to install and just works! It has added a ton of "pep" and torque for daily driving.

I as well love the Magnuson product. It is a HUGE improvement over stock!!

If money were no object than the saying "there is no replacement for displacement" would be my final opinion and I would have a 600hp V8 in my JK. That is just not realistic though for everyone.

In fact I will venture to state that any SC company would greatly appreciate a 600hp V8 in a JK.

The key for me in this whole discussion is what can a person afford to do on their jeep? There is a HUGE gap between a V8 swap and a stock engine cost wise. It would cost most guys every penny they have to spend on building a JK to just do teh engine swap. If that is how you want to spend it, GREAT! But the idea of getting a huge boost in performance and a lift, tires, bumper etc... for the same cost of jsut a swap, I can see that being a deciding factor.

$13k won't get you that 600 HP fully tuned swap, that I know of (correct me if I and off on that point). It is MUCH more $$ to get there when you consider everything involved.

The choice for many guys is keep stock motor or SC. A swap is not even an option. Because to really run a V8 worry free you need to have drastically upgraded drive terrain to handle it.

The "curse of contingencies" comes into play with a full swap...
I have never heard of anyone only spending $13k for a shop to do a swap and deliver a jeep that needs nothing else for 100-200k miles. Usually axle swaps and lots of broke parts later your into it for way more $$...

All this said, IT IS RAD to have that much power if you can afford it, I doubt any of the SC companies would dis-agree.

But most guys CAN afford 5-6K and are savvy enough to install a Ripp or Magnuson Supercharger themselves. With the amount of gain you get and how much more fun it is to drive and even tow a trailer up mountain passes, it is a no brainer. A speed freak may never quite be satisfied with a SC if they are used to a muscle car type power. Well, save your pennies and swap to a V8.

I can say the Ripp and Magnuson have restored the "fun" in driving the JK on 40's and allows me to effortlessly pull a 2000LB trailer all over the place. For the price I think it is amazing.

I don't think I will ever have a budget for my JK that will allow for a full swap. I think I am in the same boat as most. For 5-6K, you can't get a better value for price per HP from my perspective.

 

Well I have been running a 3.8 on 40's and 5.38's 6sd for a couple years with the RIPP. I have installed and run on a 3.6 as well with 4.10's and 35's auto.
I have also run and installed a Magnuson on a 3.8 with 40's and 5.13 auto.

Love the RIPP product. Easy to install and just works! It has added a ton of "pep" and torque for daily driving.

I as well love the Magnuson product. It is a HUGE improvement over stock!!

If money were no object than the saying "there is no replacement for displacement" would be my final opinion and I would have a 600hp V8 in my JK. That is just not realistic though for everyone.

In fact I will venture to state that any SC company would greatly appreciate a 600hp V8 in a JK.J
The key for me in this whole discussion is what can a person afford to do on their jeep? There is a HUGE gap between a V8 swap and a stock engine cost wise. It would cost most guys every penny they have to spend on building a JK to just do teh engine swap. If that is how you want to spend it, GREAT! But the idea of getting a huge boost in performance and a lift, tires, bumper etc... for the same cost of jsut a swap, I can see that being a deciding factor.

$13k won't get you that 600 HP fully tuned swap, that I know of (correct me if I and off on that point). It is MUCH more $$ to get there when you consider everything involved.

The choice for many guys is keep stock motor or SC. A swap is not even an option. Because to really run a V8 worry free you need to have drastically upgraded drive terrain to handle it.

The "curse of contingencies" comes into play with a full swap...
I have never heard of anyone only spending $13k for a shop to do a swap and deliver a jeep that needs nothing else for 100-200k miles. Usually axle swaps and lots of broke parts later your into it for way more $$...

All this said, IT IS RAD to have that much power if you can afford it, I doubt any of the SC companies would dis-agree.

But most guys CAN afford 5-6K and are savvy enough to install a Ripp or Magnuson Supercharger themselves. With the amount of gain you get and how much more fun it is to drive and even tow a trailer up mountain passes, it is a no brainer. A speed freak may never quite be satisfied with a SC if they are used to a muscle car type power. Well, save your pennies and swap to a V8.

I can say the Ripp and Magnuson have restored the "fun" in driving the JK on 40's and allows me to effortlessly pull a 2000LB trailer all over the place. For the price I think it is amazing.

I don't think I will ever have a budget for my JK that will allow for a full swap. I think I am in the same boat as most. For 5-6K, you can't get a better value for price per HP from my perspective.

You make a lot of good points. Our goal is to close the gap between a 3.8 with a power adder and a real V8. A 5.3 will not give you 600 hp but it will run reliably for many many years with normal maintenance. It will cruise comfortably at highway speeds and have plenty of power for passing. There is no need to change axle or driveshafts with a 5.3 unless you intend to run 37+" tires and drive hard, same as with a SC 3.8. We have removed several superchargers with 5,6, 7,000 miles to find oil is being blown out the seals and into the intake. Idlers are noisy and belts are squeaking. There are many SC designs but the point is I feel a SC will not go 50-100 or 200,000 miles without attention, rebuilding and resealing, a V8 will.

The JK in the video has never been a "star" . It's a plain Jane 2008 X with few options. That JK was converted 5 years ago with an average 5.3 LH6. It has 115,000 miles on it and the only repairs have been front brake pads, oil changes and an S-Belt when it started to crack. It doesn't burn a drop of oil and passes an enhanced OBD II emissions test every year. We have added some updated electronics over the years for better AC and other features. It has the stock radiator and has survived 120 degree summers in Vegas and Death Valley. It has been around the country several times and has been in the hands of the press where it got a good thrashing. It works so well and is so reliable it is driven daily by my wife with my baby today. The 5.3 will run on low grade gas and get good mpg. I bought my wife a new Rubicon in 2009 and she refused to drive it due to the lack of power on the highway. She loves this 5.3 because it is so quiet, smooth and reliable. It averages 17-19 mpg and the AC is ice cold.

There is no need to put 600 HP in a JK for most of us. John Currie drove this 5.3 and bought two 5.3 swaps, he saw no need for more power. I drive a 6.2 Rubicon with over 400 HP everyday, I love it but it is a hotrod. Most people who drive a 5.3 LS JK say it feels like the JK should have from the factory. You will not break parts with a 5.3 unless you are a thrash or have large tires. I will say if you have a heavy JK or larger than 35" tires and do a lot of highway driving I would go with a 6.0. The extra displacement and torque help move the weight better than the smaller engines.

 

I'd really like to know where people are finding these "dirt cheap" LS motors and trans. It seems like either the junk yard has high mileage stripped down glorified long blocks, or ebay has 600lb chunks of gold complete with everything you need.

 

^^This even the ones I seen were 9k and up for a slightly used one... reason I went new crate 6.2

 

Just a question to add to the drama..with a SC intercooler blocking the air stream how's the AC?

Mileage claims...doesn't it need to be hand calculated with a chip? I would think the readout would be incorrect with a chip but not positive.

And to question's on costs of a LS my '12 lc9 and 6l80e complete with all accessories and only 800 total miles was $4k. They are out their to be found.

 

Just a question to add to the drama..with a SC intercooler blocking the air stream how's the AC?

My AC is as ice cold as it was before I put the RIPP SC on it. No change in temperature.

 

There are pros and cons to each one of these!

The SC works well and can be installed by the average consumer. As a matter of fact we are planning on running a RIPP unit on our new 2014 Project Vehicle.

We have driven 5.7 hemi swaps and given the cost factors involved, would favor the SC on the stock power train.

The 6.1 and 6.4 hemi's were a blast, but you have to pay to play!

The 5.3 chevy swap we have not driven.

We have had the luxury of driving a Motech build here at the shop with the Chevy 6.2 and 6 speed auto. That thing felt great. It had power everywhere, but again, you are going to have to pay to play!

It really is about you, your budget and what you want! Just like everything else...

RK

 

Couple thoughts on this (RIPP/MoTech feel free to chime in).

With a 2012 JKUR and auto, the RIPP SC will put out ~320 HP at the wheels (IIRC). If I had RIPP (or a shop at their recommendation) I'm assuming that turn key, it would be aprox 8k (RIPP SC 6k, any miscellaneous stuff, 1500-2k for install).

Other than an increase in HP/Tq, things should remain the exact same as they currently are.

Only downside I see to this, is whether there's any impact on the longevity of the 3.6l and the SC itself (both parts obviously require some maintenance). And if maintenance is required on the SC the availability of someone to look at it (I live in a remote area). Another consideration is whether the inter cooler in front of the rad will have any impact on the temp - something I have to be concerned about due to my battle with my JK overheating under load (which I've mostly solved - I think - won't know until I try to drive my JK south next time).

Upside is that it's turnkey for ~8k (I wouldn't trust myself to do the install), and you have a massive power increase. This is very attractive, especially at that price point - assuming it doesn't make my overheating issues worse.

Now compared to the RIPP, the LS 5.3 puts out ~330-380 HP (can't remember exactly??), costs ~15-17k (ac, cc, tap shift - I'm not sure what other features are common ?). I think I'd trust the LS mechanically a tad more (over the long term), as it's just an engine, and one that could be serviced by any GM dealer, so I wouldn't have to risk going to Dodge, or worry about any potential damage done by the SC. An added side bonus for me, is that it replaces my engine and completely removes my overheating issue from the equation.

All of that is fairly attractive... until you circle back to the 15-17k price tag. Especially when one is talking about a brand new 2012 JK with 40,000 KM (26k miles?) on the clock.

Which I think is part of my hesitation (with either option). Obviously price is a consideration, and 8k is a lot easier to handle than 15k. But on top of the price, part of me hates replacing a brand new engine/tranny when both work perfectly fine (yes even if I'm putting in a better one). The whole if it ain't broke, don't fix it occasionally applies... The other part of me has concerns over dumping 8k into something not to be 110% happy with it (or have issues). I see the LS as the safer option... just at a significant cost. Especially when both the 3.6l SC and the 5.3ls will likely have fairly similar numbers.

I should note, I've intentionally ignored the cost/hassle of getting my JK from Northern Canada down to the US, as it has to go there eitherway, and it means a vacation!

As for why someone would want either option in a 2012 with the new engine... going up mountains with my trailer, it isn't as preppy as I'd like it. As this is something I plan on keeping for a very long time, I might as well make it do everything and anything that I want (as long as it's physically possible - ie it'll never get 30 MPG, nor do I expect it to).

Edit, MoTech, can you/do you sell the old 3.8/3.6l and tranny as part of the install package? Or is that something the customer can do on their own (would they want to, is it worth it)?

 

For me it's gong to be a Hemi. Steve's old 5.7 that just came out of his Jeep is on it's way to sunny Florida to get some TLC. It's going in as a 6.4 and should be a great ride once it has a V8.

 

I got $2500 for my old engine, I think the transmission is going to end up being a boat anchor though. Even got a call from the guy I bought my LS off of looking for another.

Sean

 

You own all the parts that come off your vehicle. We try and sell the old powertrain for you but the market is not very strong. I had about a dozen 3.8's at the shop but we sold a few last month. Engine and transmissions go for about $500 to $1,500 depending on mileage. We will store them for a month or two if needed.

We have a couple 3.6 Pentstars now and since most 12's are under warranty so we haven't had a demand for them. Lot of guys want to know if they can install them in a 3.8 JK but it's not so easy.

The Supercharger's sell quickly. Were seeing 3-$3,500 for a SC with 1,000 miles or less. I have a couple now with 5-8,000 miles on them and the seals are leaking oil and idlers noisy so they need a going through. I haven't seen a SC with high miles on it yet so I'm not sure what they would go for.

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Vortec doesn't charge much to refresh their stuff.

Someone who gets a low mileage RIPP for $3k and sends the blower to Vortec for a refresh of seals or bearings will get a hell of a deal.


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What do you consider low miles? Could you send the blower to Ripp as well to have it "refreshed"? Would love to have one of these for $3k

 

I know guys that have been using the same vortec blower fit 10 years with only a few rebuilds.

Sent with Autoguide while watching chicks get naked.

 

Has anyone done a v8 swap while retaining the nsg370?

 

We have done several. It will hold up to a 4.8 or 5.3. It requires the large front case from a TJ since the JK uses the Caravan bellhousing. You will also need the NSG to LS adapter from Novak.

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I "think" you can but only with the hemi swap

Sent with Autoguide while watching chicks get naked.

 

Oh ok. .glad to see I was wrong

Sent with Autoguide while watching chicks get naked.

 

what would it cost to get the tj nsg front case in the kit? And how much would it move the trans mounts? Is there any firewall clearance issues with the larger tj bellhousing?

 

I just went to turnkeyjeep.com, and they charge an EXTRA $1000 for you to keep YOUR old engine and trans. WTF?

Believe me, i would put a GM v8 in my jk long befor a supercharger, but i sure as hell am not paying somebody $1000 to retain something i already own.

 

What they are saying is they are taking off the price they charge $1000 for your old engine and trans. No big deal...

 

http://www.turnkeyjeep.com/LC9.html

 

Yes like I said....its just the way they are marketing it. They could have charged $1k more then had a option to give you $1k for the old engine and trans...

 

So, to summarize this thread:

A RIPP stage 2 costs $5300 and takes a "weekend mechanic" about 7-8 hours to install. A professional mechanic could do it in about 5-6 hours--$500-$600 labor.

The RIPPd 3.8L produces approximately 90% of the horsepower and torque of a 5.7 Hemi and weighs less. So, actual performance net of the weight differential is fairly close.

For those who want extra power from the RIPP, they can run a high altitude pulley--or order it with the smaller pulley at time of purchase. They can also run a more aggressive tune.

For those who want more power, they can do exhaust modifications--either relatively inexpensive short tube headers or $1600 long tube headers, plus a different muffler.

If the owner does not do good maintenance on the Vortec blower, and the bearings or seals need refreshed, they can send it to Vortec to fix at a relatively nominal cost.

When, the owner decides to sell their JK, they can pull off the RIPP and sell it used and recoup 2/3 of the cost of new.

So, basic net cost is $5300 for the self installer, and $3500 is recouped when the jeep is sold.

Net cost of running the RIPP is about $1800 for the self installer who buys new and sells used.

Add about $1000-$1200 for the person who pays labor for the install and uninstall. So, $2800-$3000 total net cost for the person who pays labor.


The downsides to the RIPP:

It doesn't get rid of the 42RLE automatic transmission.

The JK cruise control does not react fast enough to changes in speed/power. So, at freeway speeds, in windy conditions, the owner experiences a slight surging feeling when the cruise control is active.

If you offroad or go with larger tires, you need to regear your axles (costs about $1000-$1500 parts and labor to regear a pair of JK axles).



Installing an LS or Hemi:

Install kit is about $5,000-$6,000.

Used engine and tranny in good condition might run $5000-$6000.

Crate engine and tranny is $13,000-$16,000.

Install time is 40-50 hours--$5000 if professionally installed.

Driveshafts? Depends.

You can sell your stock 3.8L and tranny for about $2000 to offset the cost.

Total initial net cost for a DIYer capable of the install: $8,000-$10,000 with a used engine and tranny, or $16,000-$20,000 for a crate engine and tranny.

When the JK is sold used in the future, the V8 will probably increase the value of the jeep by about $3,000 to $4,000 for a 5.3L, more for an LS3.

Total net cost for the DIYer when jeep is sold: about $5,000 to $15,000+ (compared to $1,800 for the DIY RIPP owner).

Add $5000 in labor to the above costs for the non-DIYer. So, $21,000-$25,000 net cost for a crate engine and tranny, or net cost $13,000-$15,000 for a used engine and tranny. Net total cost when the jeep is sold in the future, $10,000+.


Other advantages of the V8:

More power, no need for premium fuel with a tune that isn't aggressive, sounds awesome, LS engines have great longevity, sounds great, unique. An LS will get similar fuel economy to a RIPPd 3.8L.

Jeeps that don't rock crawl or run larger than 35" tires may be able to get away without spending $1000-$1500 to regear axles.

No more 42RLE transmission.



Summary

In the end, how many people who are in the market to spend $5300 vs. the cost of the V8 conversion up front?

How many people are fine with an $1800 net cost when they sell their jeep vs. the net cost of the V8 when they sell their jeep?

Obviously, there are many who have the money and/or skills and time to do the V8, but the market isn't as big.

 

The JK cruise control does not react fast enough to changes in speed/power. So, at freeway speeds, in windy conditions, the owner experiences a slight surging feeling when the cruise control is active.

FYI: RPMExtreme can fine tune the RIPP SC tune to "virtually" eliminate the cruise control surge issue. Just ask RockyClymer, he has the RPMExtreme tune.

 

i have a RIPP supercharger and have used them on a few jeeps and have always been very happy..great customer service... installed them myself ..gave me the kick i was looking for

 

Planman,
I get the impression that you think because a supercharged V6 has 90% of the horsepower of a V8, that it must have 90% of the "performance" that a V8 has. I've owned a supercharged V6 before. Have you owned a JK with a V8? I'm just wondering, because as far as I'm concerned the performance of a V8 is far better than a supercharged V6. A supercharged V6 feels like a fast V6. A V8 is totally different, and in a whole other league. At least my 6.4 feels that way to me. It takes "performance" to a new level.

Robbie started this thread with a comment about an advertisement for a supercharger that said it was nearly the same as a V8, and stated that he thought that was a bit of a stretch. I agree with Robbie on this one.

 

I agree. The torque and horsepower curves on a V8 are very different than a supercharged V6.

And, the net cost is correspondingly different.

With the right differential gearing, fuel economy, 0-60 times, etc., the supercharged 3.8L performs similarly to a 5.7L Hemi or a 5.3L.

I've owned 2 5.3L GMC 1/2 ton trucks and a 5.7L 04 GTO. My present truck is a 6.7L Cummins 12 Ram 3500 Laramie that has been deleted and runs a MiniMaxx Wild tune. V8s and big I6s are awesome.

It's all about budget and priorities. Are the torque and horsepower curve differences worth 3-5x more in cost?

I would love an LS3 swap. However, I could buy this for the cost of doing an LS3 upgrade in one of our JKs:

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=26497149&cat=402&lpid=3&search=&ad_cid=8

 

Reading this thread it's like the RIPP is the iphone. No matter what you say is the best.

RIPP is a great product. I almost bought one until my wife said wait a year and we'll get the ls. The price of RIPP w/intercooler is nearly half the cost of the swapp. Factor in the sale of your old powertrain.. it gets very attractive and affordable. There are low mileage ls engine/transmissions all over Dallas for $2500.

No brainer for me.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3

 

If you can do the install without paying $5000 for labor, you can find a solid LS and tranny for $2500, you can sell your takeout for $2000, and buy the install kit for $5000, that would be a no brainer.




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I had a supercharger on my 3.8, after I blew my engine, I got a 5.7 hemi.

Night and day difference.:bounce:

 

Wish my RIPP'd jk ran as advertised. Still chasing mechanical demons.
Which totally makes me want the LS swap.
But I digress...

my autoguide app has a mind of its own