Re-centered 12 Bolt HMMWV Wheels
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2,150 Posts
Nice!
Are those the radial iroks? How do they ride?
I have some 8 bolt H1s I was going to recenter for my TJ, but never did. Now I'm thinking about doing it with my JK, but I want a little smoother ride and everyone I know with Iroks has the bias ones. I don't know of any other real good tires in a 16.5 size.
Are those the radial iroks? How do they ride?
I have some 8 bolt H1s I was going to recenter for my TJ, but never did. Now I'm thinking about doing it with my JK, but I want a little smoother ride and everyone I know with Iroks has the bias ones. I don't know of any other real good tires in a 16.5 size.
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2,150 Posts
I am still thinking about getting some bias ones for my play tires, but I'm thinking it would just be nice to have a set of nice radials like the MTRs or KM2s and not have to swap them out as much. Otherwise, I'd be swapping tires back and forth like 2 to 3 times a month during the summer.
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405 Posts
And now for the details...
My friend and I put these together over the last few days. The welding and cutting was the fast part at about 1 hour per wheel. My friend Tom did all the welding and provided the experience since this is his 3rd or 4th set he's done for club members.
To start with, please take a look at this writeup on Pirate4x4 for the background info. I am going to only post the differences relevant to a 12 bolt build-up.
The article shows the 8 bolt rims for the old bias ply tires. The 8 bolt rims are for bias ply only and are rated for much lower PSI than the 12 bolt rims since there are fewer bolts with a much lower torque spec. The 12 bolt rims can run radials or bias ply. There are actually 2 generations of 12 bolt rims as well. The first gen has 3 washers that help center the flange to the wheel, and the second generation uses a hole in both the wheel and flange for a centering tool. The second gen is also rated for even more load capacity (3850lbs I think), probably for the newer up-armored vehicles. You cannot mix and match the parts between the different 12 bolt wheel types, but each piece is stamped with the part number of the matching other half. My wheels are the second gen 12 bolts. The 8 bolt wheels use a standard rubber valve stem. The 12 bolt wheels use a steel brass valve stem assembly that bolts to the flange. 12 bolts also cost a little more but I got mine at a good price from a friend who already runs a set of 8 bolts on his CJ.
The wheel centers and rock rings came from Great Lake Offroad, the beadlock inserts came from Stazworks, and the 45 degree valve adapters came from 406YJ, all of whom are vendors on Pirate4x4.
Here are a few things to note when building up these wheels. First of all, the front brake calipers overhang the mounting face of the hub, so a flat center will NOT work by itself. This is not an issue in the rear. A common solution on other vehicles is to use a pressed center, but since I had these cut for 5 on 5, nobody had the dies setup for that and nobody could say for certain that there wouldn't still be an interference issue. My solution to this was to use 1.5" Spidertrax spacers. I leave these on for the stock Rubi wheels as well.
Another difference between the 8 and 12 bolt wheels is that on the 8 bolt wheels, the old center is in the back part of the wheel, whereas the center that has to be removed is on the flange of the 12 bolt wheels. I found that the easiest way to cut the old center out by hand is to turn the flange upside down and plasma cut the rib right at the bottom of the groove. Some of the folks on Pirate4x4 are setup with waterjets to do it and they cut the entire rib off but that was too close to the holes for me doing it by hand. The waterjet leaves a better looking cut. The difference is cosmetic.
The rock rings for 12 bolt wheels usually don't have a 13th hole cut for the valve stem. The reason is that the standard valve stem on 12 bolts points toward the center of the wheel and outward at a 45 degree angle and the tip is about on the same plane as the 12 studs and the edge of the rim. To get even a fairly small air fitting in there at an angle, you would need a pretty large cutout which would remove most of the metal in that area. Not good for strength, balance, or aesthetics. The solution is to use a standard 1/4" npt 45 degree pipe fitting. Good luck finding one at Lowes or Home Depot. Enough people build these up on Pirate though, the hardware is pretty easy to come by and it is cheap. My valves were full of crud, corroded, and needed new nylock nuts, so I picked up some new ones at Kascar in Greenville, SC. They sell civilian and military HMMWV parts and they have a parts counter so it was easy for me to stop in on my way to Atlanta. They also do internet sales. The first part of the valve assembly fits through the valve slot on the flange and uses an o-ring and a nylock nut to hold it in. That gives you a 1/4" npt thread which can then connect to the CTIS or use a Shraeder valve adapter, which is just 1/4"mpt with a hex and a standard Shraeder valve core and threads. Unscrew the Shraeder adapter, put the 45 degree adapter in with Teflon tape, then thread in the Shraeder valve to the 45 degree with more Teflon tape. This points the valve right toward the center of the wheel and keeps it fully protected by the rock ring. You can't see it in the pics but it is right between two of the clamp studs and the end is about flush with the inner edge of the rock ring. It's very slick.
There is a step in the inside diameter of the main part of the wheel. If you turn the wheel studs facing down and drop your new wheel center in, it will slide down to this step. Hammer the center in a bit and tack it in. Mount the wheel half on your axle and check it with a dial indicator. Adjust as necessary and burn it in. The face of the wheel at the studs was hard to get a good reading off of, so we measured off of some of the other features formed into the wheel and got much more repeatable results. This step conveniently yields about 4.75" backspacing when using a 3/8" plate center. Combine that with the 1.5" spacer and you get 3.25".
Remember that whole thing about 3 different kinds of wheels? Well apparently they changed from the commonly available -458 o-ring to some crazy non-standard military o-ring for these wheels. Fortunately, mine were in good shape and I could reuse them. The are in the $15 each range otherwise. Don't order the -458 o-ring unless you have the 8 bolts. That o-ring is slightly to big in major and minor diameter, and the -457 would be too small in the major diameter and still to thick in minor diameter. Epic Fail for the genius who decided that McMaster Carr was just too darn convenient.
Anyone want 4 o-rings for 8 bolt wheels?
There are several options for the beadlock insert. There is a ton written up on this so I wont spend much time on all the different flavors. I got the HDPE inserts from Stazworks. They aren't the cheapest option, but they are much lighter than the rubber or mag runflats, you don't have to modify them, and they are much tougher than the PVC inserts. My friend Tom just had one of his PVC inserts break inside the wheel and the resulting death wobble was a sight to behold. There is enough flex to the HDPE that you can just lay the tire down and stand the insert up perpendicular to the hole. Step in the middle of the insert and it will pull it into an oval and pop into the tire. Then stand the tire up and step on the edge of the insert to rotate it into position. The first one took about 10 minutes. The rest took maybe 3 minutes each. This method uses no tools, no cutting, and nothing is under tension to pop loose and hurt you or the tire. On the other hand, you can probably get all 4 mag inserts for the price of one HDPE insert.
The powder coat that comes on the wheels is insane. Somebody needs to figure out what they use and put it on rock sliders. I got a big metal wash tub and sprayed them down with a heavy duty chemical stripper that says it removes everything including epoxy and powder coat. Wrong. Tried a GALLON of another brand. Same deal. It basically softened it just enough that the knot wheel on the angle grinder could cut into it. It still took well over an hour and a half of wire wheeling per wheel just to get the areas that needed welding or plasma cutting clean. Who knows how long it would take without all the nasty chemicals (which eat through latex, vinyl, and nitrile gloves in about 15 seconds. DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING). Go all out on the safety gear. Full face shield and a good respirator are a must.
Prior to painting the wheels, I sent them off to the guys at Charlotte Soda Blasting. They blasted them down to bare metal, but the baking soda media is pretty soft so it wont damage threads (or even etch glass). It also leaves a dusting of baking soda on the surface that stops the metal from flash rusting. The media is also not reused so there is no danger of getting the last guys rust, grease, and powder coat blasted into your project. A quick rinse of vinegar and water immediately before painting leaves a perfectly de-greased surface ready for finishing. I also followed up the vinegar/water with some denatured alcohol. With the fairly high humidity, the surface would start to rust immediately if I didn't get it dry quickly. The alcohol really helped out there. Had I known how painless and cost effective this was going to be, I would have skipped the hours of chemicals and wire wheeling entirely and had this done before we did the welding.
I had the back of the wheels painted at Maaco. The finish isn't spectacular in the really deep hard to reach, but also hard to see areas, but looks good where you can see it. I wanted them in Rescue Green, and it was going be very expensive to buy that color from either the stealership or Sherwin Williams. The rock rings are just rattle canned with Rustoleum Industrial primer and satin black. This is the stuff in the big silver cans. The rings will take all the abuse so there was no point in spending any more than necessary on painting them. Besides, I thought the two-tone look was appropriate for 3 piece wheels.
I only built up 4 of these wheels. I have a spare that is a bias Irok 36-13.5x17 on a 17x9 soft 8 wheel with 4.75" backspacing. I don't feel the need to have a beadlocked spare and having a 16.5" wheel with no beadlock is asking for trouble since 16.5" wheels need high pressure to keep the tire seated. Having a tire for the same size wheel was actually going to create more problems that it could solve. The critical tire and wheel dimensions are virtually identical and this solution saved me some money with no real compromise in functionality.
I used 1lb of high density airsoft pellets in each of the 4 tires.
Bryan.
My friend and I put these together over the last few days. The welding and cutting was the fast part at about 1 hour per wheel. My friend Tom did all the welding and provided the experience since this is his 3rd or 4th set he's done for club members.
To start with, please take a look at this writeup on Pirate4x4 for the background info. I am going to only post the differences relevant to a 12 bolt build-up.
The article shows the 8 bolt rims for the old bias ply tires. The 8 bolt rims are for bias ply only and are rated for much lower PSI than the 12 bolt rims since there are fewer bolts with a much lower torque spec. The 12 bolt rims can run radials or bias ply. There are actually 2 generations of 12 bolt rims as well. The first gen has 3 washers that help center the flange to the wheel, and the second generation uses a hole in both the wheel and flange for a centering tool. The second gen is also rated for even more load capacity (3850lbs I think), probably for the newer up-armored vehicles. You cannot mix and match the parts between the different 12 bolt wheel types, but each piece is stamped with the part number of the matching other half. My wheels are the second gen 12 bolts. The 8 bolt wheels use a standard rubber valve stem. The 12 bolt wheels use a steel brass valve stem assembly that bolts to the flange. 12 bolts also cost a little more but I got mine at a good price from a friend who already runs a set of 8 bolts on his CJ.
The wheel centers and rock rings came from Great Lake Offroad, the beadlock inserts came from Stazworks, and the 45 degree valve adapters came from 406YJ, all of whom are vendors on Pirate4x4.
Here are a few things to note when building up these wheels. First of all, the front brake calipers overhang the mounting face of the hub, so a flat center will NOT work by itself. This is not an issue in the rear. A common solution on other vehicles is to use a pressed center, but since I had these cut for 5 on 5, nobody had the dies setup for that and nobody could say for certain that there wouldn't still be an interference issue. My solution to this was to use 1.5" Spidertrax spacers. I leave these on for the stock Rubi wheels as well.
Another difference between the 8 and 12 bolt wheels is that on the 8 bolt wheels, the old center is in the back part of the wheel, whereas the center that has to be removed is on the flange of the 12 bolt wheels. I found that the easiest way to cut the old center out by hand is to turn the flange upside down and plasma cut the rib right at the bottom of the groove. Some of the folks on Pirate4x4 are setup with waterjets to do it and they cut the entire rib off but that was too close to the holes for me doing it by hand. The waterjet leaves a better looking cut. The difference is cosmetic.
The rock rings for 12 bolt wheels usually don't have a 13th hole cut for the valve stem. The reason is that the standard valve stem on 12 bolts points toward the center of the wheel and outward at a 45 degree angle and the tip is about on the same plane as the 12 studs and the edge of the rim. To get even a fairly small air fitting in there at an angle, you would need a pretty large cutout which would remove most of the metal in that area. Not good for strength, balance, or aesthetics. The solution is to use a standard 1/4" npt 45 degree pipe fitting. Good luck finding one at Lowes or Home Depot. Enough people build these up on Pirate though, the hardware is pretty easy to come by and it is cheap. My valves were full of crud, corroded, and needed new nylock nuts, so I picked up some new ones at Kascar in Greenville, SC. They sell civilian and military HMMWV parts and they have a parts counter so it was easy for me to stop in on my way to Atlanta. They also do internet sales. The first part of the valve assembly fits through the valve slot on the flange and uses an o-ring and a nylock nut to hold it in. That gives you a 1/4" npt thread which can then connect to the CTIS or use a Shraeder valve adapter, which is just 1/4"mpt with a hex and a standard Shraeder valve core and threads. Unscrew the Shraeder adapter, put the 45 degree adapter in with Teflon tape, then thread in the Shraeder valve to the 45 degree with more Teflon tape. This points the valve right toward the center of the wheel and keeps it fully protected by the rock ring. You can't see it in the pics but it is right between two of the clamp studs and the end is about flush with the inner edge of the rock ring. It's very slick.
There is a step in the inside diameter of the main part of the wheel. If you turn the wheel studs facing down and drop your new wheel center in, it will slide down to this step. Hammer the center in a bit and tack it in. Mount the wheel half on your axle and check it with a dial indicator. Adjust as necessary and burn it in. The face of the wheel at the studs was hard to get a good reading off of, so we measured off of some of the other features formed into the wheel and got much more repeatable results. This step conveniently yields about 4.75" backspacing when using a 3/8" plate center. Combine that with the 1.5" spacer and you get 3.25".
Remember that whole thing about 3 different kinds of wheels? Well apparently they changed from the commonly available -458 o-ring to some crazy non-standard military o-ring for these wheels. Fortunately, mine were in good shape and I could reuse them. The are in the $15 each range otherwise. Don't order the -458 o-ring unless you have the 8 bolts. That o-ring is slightly to big in major and minor diameter, and the -457 would be too small in the major diameter and still to thick in minor diameter. Epic Fail for the genius who decided that McMaster Carr was just too darn convenient.
There are several options for the beadlock insert. There is a ton written up on this so I wont spend much time on all the different flavors. I got the HDPE inserts from Stazworks. They aren't the cheapest option, but they are much lighter than the rubber or mag runflats, you don't have to modify them, and they are much tougher than the PVC inserts. My friend Tom just had one of his PVC inserts break inside the wheel and the resulting death wobble was a sight to behold. There is enough flex to the HDPE that you can just lay the tire down and stand the insert up perpendicular to the hole. Step in the middle of the insert and it will pull it into an oval and pop into the tire. Then stand the tire up and step on the edge of the insert to rotate it into position. The first one took about 10 minutes. The rest took maybe 3 minutes each. This method uses no tools, no cutting, and nothing is under tension to pop loose and hurt you or the tire. On the other hand, you can probably get all 4 mag inserts for the price of one HDPE insert.
The powder coat that comes on the wheels is insane. Somebody needs to figure out what they use and put it on rock sliders. I got a big metal wash tub and sprayed them down with a heavy duty chemical stripper that says it removes everything including epoxy and powder coat. Wrong. Tried a GALLON of another brand. Same deal. It basically softened it just enough that the knot wheel on the angle grinder could cut into it. It still took well over an hour and a half of wire wheeling per wheel just to get the areas that needed welding or plasma cutting clean. Who knows how long it would take without all the nasty chemicals (which eat through latex, vinyl, and nitrile gloves in about 15 seconds. DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING). Go all out on the safety gear. Full face shield and a good respirator are a must.
Prior to painting the wheels, I sent them off to the guys at Charlotte Soda Blasting. They blasted them down to bare metal, but the baking soda media is pretty soft so it wont damage threads (or even etch glass). It also leaves a dusting of baking soda on the surface that stops the metal from flash rusting. The media is also not reused so there is no danger of getting the last guys rust, grease, and powder coat blasted into your project. A quick rinse of vinegar and water immediately before painting leaves a perfectly de-greased surface ready for finishing. I also followed up the vinegar/water with some denatured alcohol. With the fairly high humidity, the surface would start to rust immediately if I didn't get it dry quickly. The alcohol really helped out there. Had I known how painless and cost effective this was going to be, I would have skipped the hours of chemicals and wire wheeling entirely and had this done before we did the welding.
I had the back of the wheels painted at Maaco. The finish isn't spectacular in the really deep hard to reach, but also hard to see areas, but looks good where you can see it. I wanted them in Rescue Green, and it was going be very expensive to buy that color from either the stealership or Sherwin Williams. The rock rings are just rattle canned with Rustoleum Industrial primer and satin black. This is the stuff in the big silver cans. The rings will take all the abuse so there was no point in spending any more than necessary on painting them. Besides, I thought the two-tone look was appropriate for 3 piece wheels.
I only built up 4 of these wheels. I have a spare that is a bias Irok 36-13.5x17 on a 17x9 soft 8 wheel with 4.75" backspacing. I don't feel the need to have a beadlocked spare and having a 16.5" wheel with no beadlock is asking for trouble since 16.5" wheels need high pressure to keep the tire seated. Having a tire for the same size wheel was actually going to create more problems that it could solve. The critical tire and wheel dimensions are virtually identical and this solution saved me some money with no real compromise in functionality.
I used 1lb of high density airsoft pellets in each of the 4 tires.
Bryan.
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3,099 Posts
umm someone does, actually a few people just look in the vendor forum of pirate4x4.com I know "406 YJ" and I thing "MAD MAC" does as well. 406 YJ will also send you them complete with mil surp 37" GY MTRs
I myself prefer to make my own
http://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16515&highlight=hmmwv
(and I also prefer pressed centers)
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1 Posts
I have the 12 bolts that I had modified to run on my '41 ambulance.I also got the 37's,two with the rubber run flats ,the others dont have the inserts,but the tire guy gave me the magnesium ones (4pair),my question is, can i run the magnesium runflats /bead locks with the 37's and 12 bolt wheels? and Has anyone seen the 24 bolt HMMWV wheels for sale yet?
Thanks....
Thanks....
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654 Posts
how heavy are these things?
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4 Posts
Hmmwv rims balance like crap.
The 12 bolt rims are heavy, suitable for radial and bias ply. The 8 bolt rims are bias ply only. The 12 bolt rims MUST be run with an internal beadlock or runflat. Its because of the lip on the rim.
If I remember correctly, the 12 bolt steel rim weighs 40lbs.
Edit: Nice jeep. I like!
The 12 bolt rims are heavy, suitable for radial and bias ply. The 8 bolt rims are bias ply only. The 12 bolt rims MUST be run with an internal beadlock or runflat. Its because of the lip on the rim.
If I remember correctly, the 12 bolt steel rim weighs 40lbs.
Edit: Nice jeep. I like!
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3,099 Posts
ditch the rubber ones and run either cut-down mag run flats or get plastic inserts unless you "NEEEEED" to have runflats. The extra cash of the plastic ones is worth the wieght savings.
measure how wide the rubber one is and if the mag is the same width you can run it.
No, good luck on finding 24 bolt wheels
heavy.
my tire/wheel/beadlock combo is around 130lbs
1) they balance fine. They balance like EVERY OTHER BIG ASS WHEEL/TIRE COMBO WE RUN !! My aluminum 17's with 35" Nitto's used MORE weight than these 37's on hummers.
2) I drive every day from DC to Bethesda, MD and every weekend from MD to Norfolk,VA and then back. If they did not balance well I am pretty sure I would have noticed by now
3) They are 16.5 rims so they by nature of a 16.5 rim have NO BEAD LIP, you can run whatever tire you want.
But if you want it to be beadlocked you need to use the right insert for your rims AND your tires,
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I just sold this set of 24 bolts---but I only had the one set.
I have plenty of tires to sell--- I have a contract with a wheel guy to recenter some 8 bolt wheels--- they should be here in about a week or so. They will fit the JK bolt pattern and pretty much any bolt pattern can be accomodated. I will have the PVC inserts, and I also have 37s with the rubber runflats if someone wants to run them. I also have 12 bolt wheels- just havent gotten to them yet!
(its OK to hijack an OLD thread!LOL)
I have plenty of tires to sell--- I have a contract with a wheel guy to recenter some 8 bolt wheels--- they should be here in about a week or so. They will fit the JK bolt pattern and pretty much any bolt pattern can be accomodated. I will have the PVC inserts, and I also have 37s with the rubber runflats if someone wants to run them. I also have 12 bolt wheels- just havent gotten to them yet!
(its OK to hijack an OLD thread!LOL
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3,099 Posts
don't show me that picture of the 24 bolt and TA that you sold as a set :flipoff2:
I just need ONE and I do not feel like waiting till they start flooding the market
(and I still need to figure where to send that tire, don't worry right now as niether of us are going anywahere )
I just need ONE and I do not feel like waiting till they start flooding the market
(and I still need to figure where to send that tire, don't worry right now as niether of us are going anywahere
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103 Posts
Dammit, I need to get my act straight and gather the necessary finances to order a set of re-centered Humvee wheels with some Baja T/A's for my rig.
Hundy, how do the Baja's ride both on and off road compared to the Wranglers?
Doc, when are you going to post pics of your Jeep with those nice new flares?
Hundy, how do the Baja's ride both on and off road compared to the Wranglers?
Doc, when are you going to post pics of your Jeep with those nice new flares?
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2,043 Posts
I have never run the Bajas-
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