[wranglerblackout08]

Just thought you guys with the new 3.6L Pentastar might be interested in these mods...

http://www.modernmuscleperformance.com/3_6L_V6_Pentastar_Ported_Throttle_Body_p/1mm-36ptb.htm

http://www.modernmuscleperformance....Ported_Intake_Manifold_Jeep_JK_p/36pppmjk.htm

Just looking at the intake manifold its clear to see in the side by side pictures that there are plenty of gains to be made by porting the manifold.

 

[Goodysgotacuda]

I'd be leery of any real gains without actual dyno numbers. More volume does not necessarily mean more power where you want it. Usually the trade off is less torque and more horsepower due to the decrease in air speed with larger manifolds. Unless you want to get into custom tunes, camshafts, forced induction, etc anyone should be messing much with the airflow. Just bolting these onto an otherwise stock engine will probably give very little if-not negative power results over stock numbers.

Also these are likely tailored to Chargers and Challengers [305hp/268tq 3.6L] and likely not the JK [285hp/260tq].

Just my 2cents.

 

[Gotlime?]

Goodysgotawetblanket.

 

[ALASHA]

I had the Viper throttle body on my 3.8. Granted it is not the same motor but I did get dyno results. Although it felt much better, dyno showed only marginal gains in the low rpm band and then nothing after that. I also had to take it off because those things like to throw the Jeep into limp mode up here at altitude for some reason.

Would I have kept it if it wasnt for the limp mode issue - sure but based on my experience I wouldnt expect this to be a trouble free huge power adder.

Just my opinion...

 

[wranglerblackout08]

I'd be leery of any real gains without actual dyno numbers. More volume does not necessarily mean more power where you want it. Usually the trade off is less torque and more horsepower due to the decrease in air speed with larger manifolds. Unless you want to get into custom tunes, camshafts, forced induction, etc anyone should be messing much with the airflow. Just bolting these onto an otherwise stock engine will probably give very little if-not negative power results over stock numbers.

Just my 2cents.

The 20hp difference between the JK and the Challenger is 100% due to the intake manifold. Engineers have said this themselves. They had two different intake manifolds up until the 2013 Ram 1500, So now there are three. The Challenger manifold flows more air.

"Nearly 90% of the engine’s peak torque is available from 1,800 to 6,400 rpm."

^^New 2013 Ram 3.6L. It might be worth swapping to the Ram intake manifold.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/cold-air-intake-help-219077-5.html

Read post 127 and 134.

 

[wranglerblackout08]

I had the Viper throttle body on my 3.8. Granted it is not the same motor but I did get dyno results. Although it felt much better, dyno showed only marginal gains in the low rpm band and then nothing after that. I also had to take it off because those things like to throw the Jeep into limp mode up here at altitude for some reason.

Would I have kept it if it wasnt for the limp mode issue - sure but based on my experience I wouldnt expect this to be a trouble free huge power adder.

Just my opinion...

Charger/Challenger guys seem to be running it with no problems.

 

[Goodysgotacuda]

The 20hp difference between the JK and the Challenger is 100% due to the intake manifold. Engineers have said this themselves. They had two different intake manifolds up until the 2013 Ram 1500, So now there are three. The Challenger manifold flows more air.

"Nearly 90% of the engine’s peak torque is available from 1,800 to 6,400 rpm."

^^New 2013 Ram 3.6L. It might be worth swapping to the Ram intake manifold.

http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/cold-air-intake-help-219077-5.html

Read post 127 and 134.

Now why do you think they would change that in a different vehicle?

I don't need to go read a large thread to determine that it's based on the differences in vehicle characteristics and it's intended purpose. The loading and intended purpose of the vehicle is completely different between a Ram and a Challenger; what's good for one isn't necessarily good for the other. I'd probably go ahead and trust the engineers to make that decision for me.

Goodysgotawetblanket.

Being a mechanical engineering student had made me question lots of things people do. :lol:

 

[ALASHA]

Charger/Challenger guys seem to be running it with no problems.

are you referring to hemis?

 

[wranglerblackout08]

Now why do you think they would change that in a different vehicle?

I don't need to go read a large thread to determine that it's based on the differences in vehicle characteristics and it's intended purpose. The loading and intended purpose of the vehicle is completely different between a Ram and a Challenger; what's good for one isn't necessarily good for the other. I'd probably go ahead and trust the engineers to make that decision for me.




Being a mechanical engineering student had made me question lots of things people do. :lol:

Then don't buy it, Problem solved.

 

[wranglerblackout08]

are you referring to hemis?

Referring to the Pentastars.

 

[Goodysgotacuda]

Then don't buy it, Problem solved.

atta-way to have a technical conversation!

 

[wranglerblackout08]

atta-way to have a technical conversation!

If you would read the posts in the link then we would be on the same page.

 

[wranglerblackout08]

"Despite the four variants of the 3.6 already being sold — rear drive (290 hp), AWD (292 hp), FWD (283 hp), and Challenger (305 hp), there are just two head designs, two intake manifolds, and one set of internal components, including cam and pistons (this probably changed when they added the Ram setup, 305 hp, though the rep said the main advantage in the Ram was the space available for the exhaust), according to an SAE article by Paul Weissler. The Challenger's 13 horsepower increase is due to "a more aggressively designed intake air system" which increased airflow from 214 to 220 g/s."

It makes sense to take care of the choke point, the intake manifold, before messing with cai's or exhausts.

 

[Goodysgotacuda]

And what about the torque curve, how is that effected? Or is that in that thread? Or are you just looking at max hp numbers at 6000+ rpm?

 

[wranglerblackout08]

And what about the torque curve, how is that effected? Or is that in that thread? Or are you just looking at max hp numbers at 6000+ rpm?

It might be in that thread, Can't remember.

As for the Challenger and Ram manifolds...

"Nearly 90% of the engine’s peak torque is available from 1,800 to 6,400 rpm."

I'm not sure what the numbers are for the ported throttle body/ported manifold.

"Seriously, ask yourselves how it is that this engine makes 20 more ponies stock in another vehicle after you look at the dyno curves we're all so in love with. Look at the chart PieFace put up - it doesn't take a genius to realize the 3.6 chokes to death in the Wrangler around 4500 rpm. If you want it to really breathe and make the power it's capable of you're going to want to do something about that - and by something I mean you're going to need more than just a filter that feeds more air to an overly restrictive intake system."

^^Part of 127 from that thread.

 

[lohchief]

And what about the torque curve, how is that effected? Or is that in that thread? Or are you just looking at max hp numbers at 6000+ rpm?

Most know that in our game torque rules and HP numbers are secondary.You just might be wasting your time with this Goody.

 

[wranglerblackout08]

It appears to really take advantage of this you would need a custom tune and that would mean you would need a diablo sport tuner which means an extra $500. The upside is you would see gains of 30hp/30tq if using 93 octane, Downside is your looking at like a $1,000.

Prob worth it just to wait until next year or 2015 when they add direct injection and an 8 speed automatic.

 

[folkxrock]

This is in no way based on science or data, but it could be very possible that the extra air volume in the Charger could drastically reduce the MPG in a Wrangler. That 10% MPG increase (or whatever the advertised number vs. the 3.8) could disappear, or even result in reduced mileage. If you can move more air, you can burn more fuel. Since the wrangler is the anti-aerodynamic, it could start moving a lot more fuel through the lines in normal MPG test cycles and daily driving.

Again, nothing here is based in science or data.

 

[Bdon]

This is all fine and good to replace the tb and intake, but your forgetting two major key points.
1st the heads. The power is made in the heads. Its, in a crude manner, a distibution center for the air in and out. You can throw more air into the engine but the head may not be efficient enough to flow the extra amout of air. The more air you put in, the more air you gotta move out. So youve got to adress this as well.
2nd, a tune is definitely needed. You cant change components and expect that it will tune itself. Yes the computer will compensate, however your VE tables are gonna be way off in the upper rpm range as well as any rpm range that you dont necessarily drive in. That means that when you romp down on it, the computer is going to be running on stock figures which are goin to be very lean. So its going to try to correct these numbers. More than likely your not going to be under wot for long enough for the computer to calculate a new VE table and timing.
This is the need for a custom tune, not a box tune. You'd need to tell the computer what it needs to be running at so it can instantly produce those numbers and not ty to calculte it. This is where the extra performance gains are found.

 

[ALASHA]

This is all fine and good to replace the tb and intake, but your forgetting two major key points.
1st the heads. The power is made in the heads. Its, in a crude manner, a distibution center for the air in and out. You can throw more air into the engine but the head may not be efficient enough to flow the extra amout of air. The more air you put in, the more air you gotta move out. So youve got to adress this as well.
2nd, a tune is definitely needed. You cant change components and expect that it will tune itself. Yes the computer will compensate, however your VE tables are gonna be way off in the upper rpm range as well as any rpm range that you dont necessarily drive in. That means that when you romp down on it, the computer is going to be running on stock figures which are goin to be very lean. So its going to try to correct these numbers. More than likely your not going to be under wot for long enough for the computer to calculate a new VE table and timing.
This is the need for a custom tune, not a box tune. You'd need to tell the computer what it needs to be running at so it can instantly produce those numbers and not ty to calculte it. This is where the extra performance gains are found.

Pretty sure the heads have enough efficiency to handle ported intake and TB or else superchargers kit wouldnt really work...Also remember Fiat designed the Penstar to handle turbo charging so the heads def have the bandwidth.

100% agree with your second point.