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Oh trust me, nobody twists my arm to do anything I don't want to do, especially when it comes to spending money....
I hate quoting huge messages so I shortened it a bit. I didn’t take you for a fool or an idiot, you seem like a smart guy from what little I have read from you. I like to consider myself the same (at least my mom tells me so) One thing that guys who are thinkers and tinkerers like to do is figure stuff out! I almost revel in the chance to tackle stuff like this knowing the mental and physical challenge that is ahead. I can fully understand if this is your daily driver and you need it to be down as little as possible but let’s be honest, if you can afford this swap you can purchase a beater to get around in for a few more weeks.
 

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Oh trust me, nobody twists my arm to do anything I don't want to do, especially when it comes to spending money....
I hate quoting huge messages so I shortened it a bit. I didn?t take you for a fool or an idiot, you seem like a smart guy from what little I have read from you. I like to consider myself the same (at least my mom tells me so) One thing that guys who are thinkers and tinkerers like to do is figure stuff out! I almost revel in the chance to tackle stuff like this knowing the mental and physical challenge that is ahead. I can fully understand if this is your daily driver and you need it to be down as little as possible but let?s be honest, if you can afford this swap you can purchase a beater to get around in for a few more weeks.
Agreed

If you can afford to do a DIY junkyard parts LS swap that will still cost $10k. You can afford a $1000-1500 reliable beater of a DD while you have the JK down. And if your doing a efi engine swap you should be past the point of needing Barnie Style instructions.

Or better yet find a shop to do it, local shop to me that is experienced with MoTech swap gave me an awsome price and could have it done in a week if I made an appointment on a slow week at the shop.
 

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First off the notion that you should have to get a beater to drive around because the install instructions arent ironed out is asinine to say the least.

The physical parts included in these kits arent actually all that much (compared to a suspension kit for example) so for the 5K+ price tag, instructions arent too much to ask for.

Second Nucleophile mentioned it earlier. Its not about having a vehicle to drive. It is about tying up a rack at a friend's shop.

For those of you who like to tinker and want this to be more of an adventure, why bother with a swap kit at all? Just engineer it as you go right...

Lastly, if the swap is so simple, then instructions should and could have been written in the time that we have been bickering over the issue. Robbi spends alot of time on customer service so it stands to reason that clean and concise instructions should benefit everyone.

Motech invented the LS swap and I still consider them my #1 choice if funds allowed but I dont have the skills to do my own stunts so having instructions in hand to make the swap go as fast and smooth as possible lowers my final costs. That and waiting for the promised latest gen kit availability has definitely led to a little :crying:
 

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Agreed

...And if your doing a efi engine swap you should be past the point of needing Barnie Style instructions....
First off the notion that you should have to get a beater to drive around because the install instructions arent ironed out is asinine to say the least.

The physical parts included in these kits arent actually all that much (compared to a suspension kit for example) so for the 5K+ price tag, instructions arent too much to ask for.

Second Nucleophile mentioned it earlier. Its not about having a vehicle to drive. It is about tying up a rack at a friend's shop.

For those of you who like to tinker and want this to be more of an adventure, why bother with a swap kit at all? Just engineer it as you go right...

Lastly, if the swap is so simple, then instructions should and could have been written in the time that we have been bickering over the issue. Robbi spends alot of time on customer service so it stands to reason that clean and concise instructions should benefit everyone.

Motech invented the LS swap and I still consider them my #1 choice if funds allowed but I dont have the skills to do my own stunts so having instructions in hand to make the swap go as fast and smooth as possible lowers my final costs. That and waiting for the promised latest gen kit availability has definitely led to a little :crying:

Jesus Christ, yall both wanted bernie as prez right? The stench of entitlement is so thick between the two of you. Nobody owes you squat including instructions. You don’t like or want it because there aren’t any, don’t buy it. In your case alasha this frees up your friends rack, how convenient!
 

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bumpstick was agreeing with you, but you can still be mad at him too if you'd like

for 7K i'd like to have barney(colored purple) instructions with maybe a 24ct crayon and a bernie sticker
 

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Jesus Christ, yall both wanted bernie as prez right? The stench of entitlement is so thick between the two of you. Nobody owes you squat including instructions. You don’t like or want it because there aren’t any, don’t buy it. In your case alasha this frees up your friends rack, how convenient!
Nucleophile is the one who would use a friends rack. I would be paying for the install. Reading comprehension results in less confusion. The more you know...

Entitlement? So for 5K+ of my hard earned dollars, I am not entitled to instructions? This isnt a set of legos as you mentioned. This is an engine swap. It may be trivial to you but to most its anything but as evidenced by the amount of support Motech has to provide people and shops around the country during the install.
 

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Entitlement? So for 5K+ of my hard earned dollars, I am not entitled to instructions? This isnt a set of legos as you mentioned. This is an engine swap. It may be trivial to you but to most its anything but as evidenced by the amount of support Motech has to provide people and shops around the country during the install.
Its more like $6200 last I called and checked. Bottom line is you know what you are getting into. There is no excuse to get on a public forum and cry about a lack of instructions when you know up front that there basically isn't any! Call the guy and bitch about it to him if you just cant get it out of your system.
 

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Put me down as another person that won't be spending money on an LS swap without instructions. I have an electrical engineering degree and don't want to waste my time re-engineering a swap kit. If I wanted to do the engineering, I wouldn't be paying $6k for a couple of brackets, wiring harness, and programming. Time is valuable and finite.
 

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Discussion Starter #92
Hi guys,

Were dropping the body on a 2015 JKUR so Mitch and I thought we would take a short video on how simple this is. I'm not saying instructions or a decent up to date needs list are required, Necuphile has a point about that. My point is this install has got pretty easy.
 

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Discussion Starter #93
Jon,

Ronnie and I are pretty laid back guys, IMO neither of us would say such a thing.

Early on due to the enormous investment we had in R&R shops were required to have non-competes with us as you know.

When you came to our shop I opened up to you and showed you our electronics and the work we were doing with the can bus and future simplification. First job was to make this thing work, and we did that, but early on it was a bit complex.

After a swap or two with you I noticed mounts and accessory drives very similar to our on your website. I called you and asked you about them and you informed me you were purchasing them from a guy in California. I asked you who that was and you stated you could not remember. At that point I had to make a business decision just like I did with a couple of other vendors, did you feel I should still support you?

It was clear when you were here you were looking for information IMO. Ronnie recalls you telling him the hardware will be easy but the electronics would take time. I do not believe Ronnie told you what you say but I do believe he was offended by that attitude. You requested an extra harness to replace a defective harness early on, we overnighted one too you and you agreed to return the defective harness, it never got returned. Hmmmm

To some degree most LS JK swaps out there(not Bruiser) have some MoTech technology in them. I applaud your efforts to invent and improve, if it gets into a non-compete conflict that should be between us and not on the forum. That is what attorney's are for and I hate attorneys and litigation.

Jon my customers are my most important concern. I have nothing against you or your shop. I'm sure you are a hard working guy like me and we all have families to support. I hope this is win-win for all of us but understand we have the right to protect our developments. Many, many long hours went into this so we could offer these forum members and other what I believe to be the best powertrain out there for the JK. You know that because you were doing superchargers at the time and understood the benefit of the LS series engine in a JK.

I believe the new Gen V engine are a step up and we should be drive one this week, look for updates. That is why I started this thread, not to bring you into it.
 

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Discussion Starter #94
Rough idea when the billet drives will be shipping with the LS3 kits?

I'm going to pick up my kit through John at Overland Performance.
Thanks for the question. The truck billet brackets should be on an engine later this week for testing. The billet LS3 brackets will follow, the AC compressor and other parts are identical to the truck so it should go quickly.

The brackets were machined by our programmer for testing and after running we will make any final changes and run them on our in house machines.

You do have another choice, look at the video I just posted. We have now run dozens of GM drives with good results. I still feel, as do my guys, our drive lays out better and uses the accessories, hoses and lines you already have to save $. In addition most of these parts are available easily at parts stores.

We invested in a large hydraulic hose press. It nets factory like crimps and our AC and PS hoses look like OE now. Were having fittings custom made and improving the design for a better look.

I feel you will be happy with either the GM or MT drive but you will have to wait for the LS3 MT drive.
 

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Its more like $6200 last I called and checked. Bottom line is you know what you are getting into. There is no excuse to get on a public forum and cry about a lack of instructions when you know up front that there basically isn't any! Call the guy and bitch about it to him if you just cant get it out of your system.
The point of a forum is an exchange of ideas. In this particular case, it is positive feedback to a vendor on how to improve a product. If you think that type of feedback doesnt belong on a forum, then I think you are on the wrong site. WayOfLife may be more to your tastes...
 

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Discussion Starter #97
Here it is 2 3/4 years short of 3 years:)

I was going to get some drone footage but it's 105* out and didn't want to melt it.

Anyway it is amazingly strong. This is literally the first drive out of the shop; the first functional Gen V LS JK:) Direct Injection, Continuous Variable Valve Timing and the Vacumn pump all worked perfect. If the mileage claims are true this may be the ultimate Jk engine, I'm excited to drive it.

 

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Im really happy with the power. I was afraid to get on it to hard since that was really the first test drive. It has so much torque and I didnt feel the weight of the big wheels and tires. The wiring is super simple now and I feel like anyone can install it. Its plug and play for the most part. We made a video today demonstrating how easy it is to tap into the wires on the body harness. Both the gen IV and gen v will be very easy install on the wiring side of things which is what alot of people worry about. I'll post the video shortly. I'm not the best at speaking on camera but I did my best
 

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You did well, Mitch. It's good to see the evolution. I picked my Jeep up from the old shop just over a year ago and it's been awesome. However, I can see the incremental improvements MoTech has made in the short time I've had mine home and I'm happy to see you guys continue to move forward and make a fantastic product. Keep it up.
 
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