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Discussion Starter #61
Do you mean the fan is enough with the stock radiator? Does this require me to send anything in for re-programming? I have EFI live but I don't really know much about programming with it.

Thanks again,
Sean
Hi Sean, as I remember you were in the great white North where temps are not like here. We just had some 105* temps while raining:(

The stock radiator can only exchange so much heat so the first step is go with the HD dual pass radiator and stock fan. This works well in most 5.3 and 6.0's if you don't tow. Don't go with a radiator to thick because the stock fan will not pull through it.

The next step is add the Pentstar fan, this will increase cfm from about 2,500 to over 3,500 cfm. This does require the fan tables be programmed into your GM ECM, we will do it for free if you have our kit.

Actually the first step should be to check the AC condenser for mud and debris. Also do not block the grille, I cannot emphasize this enough. No grille inserts, sink the winch, no lights or license plates to deflect air away from the grille and over the hood. I have LS3's here and in Phoenix running cool with the Pentstar fan and all sorts of grille obstructions but you can really hear the fan winding up. Remove the obstructions and the fan works less. You can tell if air deflecting over the hood is an issue if the faster you go the hotter it gets, this indicates the aerodynamic flow is being diverted away from the grille openings; and when you slow down the air returns through the grille.

Finally we have some extreme cooling solutions for Hemi's, or and V8, SC JK that will increase the cooling system capacity. Look for it soon.
 

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Jesus I cant friggin wait until later this year to call and thrown down on a DIY kit. Its happening... cant barely contain myself.
 

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Jesus I cant friggin wait until later this year to call and thrown down on a DIY kit. Its happening... cant barely contain myself.
What engine are you going with? I am hoping I can pull this off next year also!!!
Where are you located at? I really want to find someone that has done the 6.0 swap so I can see if that will be enough engine for me.
 

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The 6.0 in my GMC 3/4 ton pulls my 7000lb trailer with 2 motorbikes in the back of the truck doing 80mph down the I-15.......If that doesn't make you happy in a Jeep I don't know what would haha:smile2:.

I did the 5.3 and sometimes want to upgrade but my wife would leave me.

Sean
 

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What engine are you going with? I am hoping I can pull this off next year also!!!
Where are you located at? I really want to find someone that has done the 6.0 swap so I can see if that will be enough engine for me.
In the next month or two I will be buying one of the 6.2, 480hp ls3 crate engines. It will be the first anchor piece then if all works out by mid december I will be spending the $$$ at motech.
 

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The 6.0 in my GMC 3/4 ton pulls my 7000lb trailer with 2 motorbikes in the back of the truck doing 80mph down the I-15.......If that doesn't make you happy in a Jeep I don't know what would haha:smile2:.

I did the 5.3 and sometimes want to upgrade but my wife would leave me.

Sean
I hear ya! But if I'm going to spend the money I want to do it right the first time and not wish i would have went with a 6.2ls3 or even just the 6.2 from a yukon or whatever. Someone please let me drive their 6.0 ls jk!!! :smile2:
 

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In the next month or two I will be buying one of the 6.2, 480hp ls3 crate engines. It will be the first anchor piece then if all works out by mid december I will be spending the $$$ at motech.
Nice! You going with a crate 6l80 also?
 

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I would really like to see a; performance comparison : fuel economy : price comparison of the L96, L92/L94, and the L83... What's going to be the best value?
 

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I would really like to see a; performance comparison : fuel economy : price comparison of the L96, L92/L94, and the L83... What's going to be the best value?
Me too! I like that the 6.0 runs on 87 octane and is a cast iron block, just seems like it would more of a workhorse than the Ls3 and maybe more durable?
 

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Discussion Starter #72
I don't think I would be doing this for fuel economy.
We have a L83 powertrain in the shop now. Let's not forget the Gen V engines are evolutionary not revolutionary successors of the Gen IV engines.

From what I can see the Gen V engines are slightly more powerful but a priority was placed on efficiency. The Gen V engines have Direct Injection for maximum combustion efficiency. DI allows high compression which leads to high cylinder pressures, Continuous Variable Cam Phasing maximizes available torque at all rpm's, Enhanced Multiple Displacement means your driving around a 2.6 liter engine under light loads.

And it doesn't end there on production vehicles the PS pump has been replaced with electric steering. Even the alternator has a one way bearing to reduce drag. GM went through a lot of effort to get efficiency from the Gen V engines.

We're already seeing 20 mpg with 5.3's in light JK's with stock tires. Heavy JK's do not get 20 mpg but get similar or slightly better than stock engines with much more power. I would not be surprised, and would hope, we outperform the stock engines mpg with the Gen V engines by 20%.
 

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Discussion Starter #74
Whats the price difference between a L96 and a L83 going to be?
Not much, the price of the Gen V 5.3's is dropping rapidly. What remains to be seen is how the Gen V 5.3 will handle a heavy JK. The CVVT and DI will help a lot but will it be better than the extra displacement of the 6.0?
 

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For long term durability and maintenance would it be better to go with a iron 6.0 or aluminum 6.2 engine? I work on some really rusted out 6.0 blocks on plow trucks and have also delt with bolts seizing in aluminum heads...
 

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Discussion Starter #76
While we haven't had any issues with the iron/aluminum or all aluminum engines I have my opinions.

The 6 liter truck engines cost less to maintain than the 6.2. The L96 uses regular gas and conventional oil where the 6.2 engines prefer premium gss and full synthetic oil.

We have shipped swaps to Daytona and Galveston where a year after the swap the bottom of the engines are rusted and corroded, it's a harsh environment.

There are some special purpose engines like the LC8 6.0 that uses non corrosive components because it can run on alcohol, natural gas and even propane. Another factor is the LS engines run so long they are in service longer than many engines. 300,000 miles is not unheard of with a LS 6.0.

Everyone has an opinion but I feel the iron 6.0 is a great expedition engine. The stability of the iron block and ability to run virtually any gas out makes it versatile. I don't feel the iron/aluminum construction is an issue the architecture is very stable. With box construction and crossbolted mains it is very rigid. I have many swaps up North like Newfoundland and Alaska where they seem to prefer the iron blocks.

If in cold temperatures I prefer a non AFM engine. The L96, LS3, L92 and L9H are non AFM. AFM lifters are sensitive to high oil pressure. Early on lifters were damaged from cold starts below 20*f. If oil pressure exceeds 75 psi the lifters can be damaged. GM installed a separate oil pressure regulators in the oil pan on DOD engines to help cold start issues. By 2010 GM pretty much sorted the issue by installing oil pan regulators in all engines and lifter design improvements.

As far as corrosion and rusted bolts it happens in all engines. The LS does not have specific problem areas like the manifold and T-Stat housing bolts on the Jeep I6 4.0 that I know of.

Extracting or drilling out a bolt is a PITA regardless if your working with iron or aluminum. With some heat and penetrating oil a lot of broken bolts can be avoided.

As long as you maintain your engine I don't think you'll have and issue with either engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #77
Nucleophile I felt it was more appropriate to respond to you in our thread.

We have been doing Pentstar JK LS swaps since 2012. We havr offered a 2012+ kit since 2014. Our Gen III kit made the Pentstar swap virtually plug and play in 2015.

We currently not only support Pentstar JK AC but we also support automatic AC modes and automatic fan blower modes.

We do offer a needs list and basic instructions however the install has become very straight forward. We do not offer "stereo" type instructions yet but we will.

Back in 2013-4 when RPM visited our shop and purchased a couple kits we were developing a can bridge. I'm happy to say our Gen IV MoTech module incorporates a CAN bridge and CAN interpreter. The bridge allows the two CAN networks to receive and transmit for bi-directional communication. Thr CAN interrupter allows CAN messages to be converted to discrete outputs to control things like lights and solenoids.

Attached is a picture of our prototype Gen IV MoTech module. It is actually a double layed board due to the number of processors and the fact it uses a through hole design. The production board should be SMT all machine made, potted and sealed.

This module we consider a universal bridge. This module can process analog, digital, CAN and even serial data. Mitch has had success incorporating serial interior functions such as driver displays, Bluetooth and computer connections. Were talking more than just JK's here. We're talking Toyota's, Porsche's, Mazda....

We have to be careful though, if we make one can network dependent on the other there are risks.

Currently we run two independent networks that are pure. Years ago we had the ability to run just the JK gas pedal but for safety we chose not too.

Remember we have come a long way from the beginning days, we were the only ones with functional circuits that we all learned from, we did the diligence.

The Gen V swap has actually simplified the swap. Mounts are simplier and we run virtually all the OE GM wiring which just plugs it into the JK, this will, and has lowered the price of the kit and install.

Look forward to lower price's, easier install and better documentation.
 

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Nucleophile I felt it was more appropriate to respond to you in our thread.

We have been doing Pentstar JK LS swaps since 2012. We havr offered a 2012+ kit since 2014. Our Gen III kit made the Pentstar swap virtually plug and play in 2015.
With all due respect, you and I have been communicating about an LS swap in my 2013 JKUR for around 2 years. (I blew away most of my PMs to make room.) I even filled out your form to be "on the list" when the Gen III kit was ready. I filled it out a long time ago. I still have the paper copy I scanned and emailed in. I heard nothing. Crickets.

We currently not only support Pentstar JK AC but we also support automatic AC modes and automatic fan blower modes.

We do offer a needs list and basic instructions however the install has become very straight forward. We do not offer "stereo" type instructions yet but we will.
I have looked at your needs list and it seems pretty generic and somewhat dated. And I don't think decent instructions is beyond expectations. Your shop has done hundreds of these. This, while not my first engine swap by any means, will be my first LS into a JK swap


Back in 2013-4 when RPM visited our shop and purchased a couple kits we were developing a can bridge. I'm happy to say our Gen IV MoTech module incorporates a CAN bridge and CAN interpreter. The bridge allows the two CAN networks to receive and transmit for bi-directional communication. Thr CAN interrupter allows CAN messages to be converted to discrete outputs to control things like lights and solenoids.

Attached is a picture of our prototype Gen IV MoTech module. It is actually a double layed board due to the number of processors and the fact it uses a through hole design. The production board should be SMT all machine made, potted and sealed.

This module we consider a universal bridge. This module can process analog, digital, CAN and even serial data. Mitch has had success incorporating serial interior functions such as driver displays, Bluetooth and computer connections. Were talking more than just JK's here. We're talking Toyota's, Porsche's, Mazda....

We have to be careful though, if we make one can network dependent on the other there are risks.
I have a background in networking, mainly WAN though. The LAN stuff, while interesting, was never my focus. I will say this though, sometimes simpler is better. Sometimes stuff is made overly complex for the sake of complex. Its why Ethernet blew away ATM and several other protocols for WANs. Its stupid simple. And simple works. Complex is great when it works. Sucks when it doesn't. Long way of saying I don't know if your approach is better or worse that RPM's approach. In the long run, the market place will decide.

Currently we run two independent networks that are pure. Years ago we had the ability to run just the JK gas pedal but for safety we chose not too.

Remember we have come a long way from the beginning days, we were the only ones with functional circuits that we all learned from, we did the diligence.

The Gen V swap has actually simplified the swap. Mounts are simplier and we run virtually all the OE GM wiring which just plugs it into the JK, this will, and has lowered the price of the kit and install.
I am glad the Gen V has simplified things even further. The instructions should be all that much easier to produce.


Look forward to lower price's, easier install and better documentation.
Me too.

I feel like I am getting sucked into an argument that I don't want to be in the middle of. I am trying to stick to facts and data, and not opinions and conjecture. Truth of the matter is I have wanted to do an LS conversion for a long time. But I am not willing to figure it out as I go along. I expect a reasonable set of instructions. I don't think that is unreasonable, but its your business and your business decision as to what to offer in the market place (as I have said repeatedly) I am not criticizing what you have done or not done. Just trying to state facts.

You have brought an amazing product to the JK world. You have blazed a path forward few would have thought even possible years ago. I tip my hat to you.
 

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I feel like I am getting sucked into an argument that I don't want to be in the middle of. I am trying to stick to facts and data, and not opinions and conjecture. Truth of the matter is I have wanted to do an LS conversion for a long time. But I am not willing to figure it out as I go along. I expect a reasonable set of instructions. I don't think that is unreasonable, but its your business and your business decision as to what to offer in the market place (as I have said repeatedly) I am not criticizing what you have done or not done. Just trying to state facts.

You have brought an amazing product to the JK world. You have blazed a path forward few would have thought even possible years ago. I tip my hat to you.
You cry about wanting instructions that read like putting together a set of legos. Nobody is twisting your arm to spend your $$$ here. You obviously want the best conversion kit out there so this is why you are here. News flash, you're gonna have to use your noggin a bit with this one. If I were Motech I wouldn't even sell you a kit because I already know the time I am going to have to invest on the phone with you would not be worth the measly amount I made from you.
 

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You cry about wanting instructions that read like putting together a set of legos. Nobody is twisting your arm to spend your $$$ here. You obviously want the best conversion kit out there so this is why you are here. News flash, you're gonna have to use your noggin a bit with this one. If I were Motech I wouldn't even sell you a kit because I already know the time I am going to have to invest on the phone with you would not be worth the measly amount I made from you.
Oh trust me, nobody twists my arm to do anything I don't want to do, especially when it comes to spending money.

And yes, I want the best conversion kit out there...........is that something to criticize me over???? Should I instead want the shittiest one out there? I fail to see your point.

And you are probably right. Motech wouldn't sell me a kit at this point regardless. But ironically your reasoning as to why is somewhat contradictory. The reason I feel adequate instructions are necessary is exactly because I don't want to spend time on the phone with Motech during an install. That just creates delays and wastes a lot of time with voicemails and phone tag.

I am sure by now I have pissed off Robbie to the point where I am banned from being a future customer. If so, so be it.

And I am quite familiar with using my noggin. As I posted before, I have been involved in a number of hemi swaps. I was involved in one of the first, if not the first hemi swap with a 2011 545 trans that Chrysler changed the valve body in but never bothered to tell anyone. Suddenly, for reasons nobody could figure out, the jeep went into limp mode. It took AEV about a week to figure out the new valve body didn't work with their software. My point being is that things change. Problems arise. If time were not an issue, what the hell, just work through it all. But time is an issue for me. Maybe not for you or maybe not for most people. But grinding thru problems one at a time, especially when the solution is known, but just not communicated (instructions) is not my idea of a good time.

If you feel like I am "crying" about instructions, well you are entitled to your opinion. And maybe most people would agree with you. I don't really care. As I have said about 10 times now, its Robbie's decision as to whether or not to produce instructions. He has said repeatedly he fully intends to, so I guess at least he agrees with me, on some level.

Probably all for not anyway. I am getting sick of this whole F'ing topic.

I wanted to respond to your attack, but that is it for me. I am done. I will wait and see what transpires in the market place. I was trying to move the ball forward for those of us who want to do our own swap but don't want to drag it out for weeks and weeks. I guess that is too much to ask, at least in your opinion.
 
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