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Mixed Matched suspension
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I'll try to help you understand my question a little better.
Rock Krawler has 2 different sets of adjustable rear control arms. A Flex set and an X Factor set. The difference is the x factor set moves the axle back 1". 1" isn't a huge deal, so we are not looking at a huge spread from factory length to moving the axle back 1". But in that distance, RK uses 2 different sets of arms and Kjeeper10 had to special order (at the time?) his arms to fall into the middle between factory length and 1" stretch. Which makes it appear that there is a void in the middle that RK's 2 different arms do not cover.
Factory Control arms:
Upper 17 1/2"
Lowers 19 3/4"
Rock Krawler recommended starting points for 3.5" lift:
Flex lower 19 1/2" 2dr /20" 4dr
X-factor upper 19 1/8" 2dr/ 18 9/16" 4dr (1 1/16"-1 5/8" longer than stock)
X-Factor lower 20 5/8" 2dr/ 21" 4dr (7/8"-1 1/4" longer than stock)
Looking at RK's starting points, they range from about factory length on the flex lowers to 7/8"- 1 1/4" longer on the X factor lowers and 1 1/16" - 1 5/8" longer on the x factor uppers.
Now look at the range of a couple other arms.
Synergy:
Upper Min 18"/ Max 19 5/8"
Lower Min 19 3/4"/ Max 21 3/4"
Metalcloak:
Upper Min 17 3/4"/ Max 19"
Lower Min 19 3/4"/ 21"
Both Synergy and Metalcloak basically covers that range with 1 set of arms and Rock Krawler uses 2. Both Synergy and Metalcloak can cover or all but cover RK's X factor 1" stretch starting points. They do cover kjeeper10's "custom" length "mid arms" so no need for a special order. Their recommended lengths are 1/2"-1" longer than factory with room to extend a little farther but short enough to be used with the factory settings.
Metalcloaks recommended arm lengths are:
Uppers 18 7/16" (15/16" longer than stock)
Lowers 20 7/16" (11/16" longer than stock)
Synergy recommended arm lengths are"
Uppers 18 1/2"- 18 3/4" (1"- 1 1/4" longer than stock)
Lowers 20 1/4" (1/2" longer that stock)
It appears that Synergy and Metalcloak are both capable of accomplishing with 1 set of arms what it takes Rock krawler to do with 2 different sets of arms. Rock Krawler's X factor arms may be capable of a little longer Max length (no body knows), but keeping the factory frame mounts will only allow around 1" "stretch" before you start running into clearance issues and coil bow which starts going beyond a simple bolt on lift (which all of these are). The recommended starting points for Rock Krawlers X-factor arms are only slightly longer so there's not a HUGE difference.
So basically RK has offered the "Flex" lowers without a matching upper until just recently, leaving quite a few people (I'm sure) thinking they could add the upper arms later. Later comes and they order the upper arms only to find out that the arms included in their "upgradable" lift are too short to work with the off the shelf arms. So now/finally RK has a second set of uppers?
RK gives you 2 choices without any information to help you make an informed decision. No Min/Max length to compare to other choices/option(YES, there are MANY other choices). No Min/Max length to compare to their own 2 choices. Nothing to help you determine if the arms are going to fit your current needs AND be able to accommodate your future plans. Basically just saying here they are, trust us.
Are the shorter Flex arms capable of the same range that other arms like Synergy's and Metalcloak's are?
Is the small difference between the recommended starting point on the X factor arms and Synergy or Metalcloak arms really that big of a deal (maybe the X factor arms have more to offer than what it appears).
Maybe I'm just over thinking it and there's no reason to be aware of what your purchasing.
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6,223 Posts
I understand. You want to know why RK doesn't offer one set of lowers and one set of uppers. That would definitely simplify the world, I agree with you. Let's ask them that question.
RK why don't you change things slightly and offer one set of lowers and one set of uppers that will absolve this question/situation moving forward? It would simplify inventory as well.
That being said, it is definitely important to understand what you're buying. What (it seems from my side of the internet) you're taking for granted with what you're saying is that no one picks up the phones and asks questions or comes here and asks questions. The situation you're upset (?) about is hypothetical, and it rarely happens if a customer is informed of their options during the buying process. I'm sure there are people out there who do no research and just pull the trigger to later find out that they should have researched the product they bought a little more, but I think that is the exception to the norm.
All I'm trying to convey is the problem that you're perceiving as a rampant epidemic is really not that common at all. Confusing, sure, but it is a quick chat by phone or email to explain what a customer needs if they are interested in the RK product.
RK why don't you change things slightly and offer one set of lowers and one set of uppers that will absolve this question/situation moving forward? It would simplify inventory as well.
That being said, it is definitely important to understand what you're buying. What (it seems from my side of the internet) you're taking for granted with what you're saying is that no one picks up the phones and asks questions or comes here and asks questions. The situation you're upset (?) about is hypothetical, and it rarely happens if a customer is informed of their options during the buying process. I'm sure there are people out there who do no research and just pull the trigger to later find out that they should have researched the product they bought a little more, but I think that is the exception to the norm.
All I'm trying to convey is the problem that you're perceiving as a rampant epidemic is really not that common at all.
Confusing, sure, but it is a quick chat by phone or email to explain what a customer needs if they are interested in the RK product.
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5,093 Posts
SLADE, my arms were cut to what i wanted BEFORE the new uppers were released. Based on my RESEARCH, i wanted to be longer than the flex (lowers) but shorter than the x-factor lowers. So yes, they did happen to fall in-between. BUT Not to say i could of gone with the (new) flex rears and been perfectly happy.
I do believe the flex lowers will adjust out to the X-factor min. Theres not really a "void" like said.
I do believe the flex lowers will adjust out to the X-factor min. Theres not really a "void" like said.
No, I don't want to know why RK doesn't offer one set of arms.I understand. You want to know why RK doesn't offer one set of lowers and one set of uppers. That would definitely simplify the world, I agree with you. Let's ask them that question.
RK why don't you change things slightly and offer one set of lowers and one set of uppers that will absolve this question/situation moving forward? It would simplify inventory as well.
That being said, it is definitely important to understand what you're buying. What (it seems from my side of the internet) you're taking for granted with what you're saying is that no one picks up the phones and asks questions or comes here and asks questions. The situation you're upset (?) about is hypothetical, and it rarely happens if a customer is informed of their options during the buying process. I'm sure there are people out there who do no research and just pull the trigger to later find out that they should have researched the product they bought a little more, but I think that is the exception to the norm.
All I'm trying to convey is the problem that you're perceiving as a rampant epidemic is really not that common at all.
I want to know what their 2 sets of arms are capable of.
The only "problem" is a lack of available information.
How will a "Quick" phone call or email help when neither RK nor you can answer the question over multiple days on an open forum? Neither one of you are capable of providing the range of adjustment in the 2 options.
I believe you are a well informed RK fan... but even you are unsure.
Your statement:
"Based on my research i wanted to be longer than the flex (lowers) but shorter than the x-factor lowers. So yes, they did happen to fall in-between."
Which reinforces the question I asked, especially since you had your arms "custom" made.
If there is not a void, why did you have to have your arms "custom" made?
The arm lengths you wanted did "fall in-between" so you had custom arms made to meet your researched length but you don't "believe" there is a void... Seems contradictory.
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5,093 Posts
I will just repeat myself LOL
There was no part number for the short uppers at the time, only the flex lowers. Today ... If i ordered ... Flex lowers + short uppers. Again ... I would be fine with this combo
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4,676 Posts
You are more than welcome to joint us, but Slade, he might be on to something. How about you post a pic of your rig. We don't care if you are a dick, we just don't want to have to tow a boat anchor through a trail.
We get what you are asking rough. Rough measurements. As soon as someone has the time, we will work on it. It is just not high on the food chain right this second.
RK
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3,056 Posts
I was feeling pretty okay with my mix and match suspension until this one day when we were stopped along the trail and these two clowns show up and start eyeballing my jeep, focusing in on the suspension. They gave me a really hard time about my mixed up suspension along with some pretty serious stink eye. As long as you stay away from these haters, your mix and match with probably be fine. We managed to click of a cell phone pic.
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53 Posts
Here is mine, the JK is not the problem, its my lack of driving skill that makes my JK an anchor. I just got the RK lowers because I bent the stockers at the mall. Dont worry though, I have a winch and my wife has a strong back, so she can help with pushing the JK. I run MC front lowers, thats okay right?
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69 Posts
I was feeling pretty okay with my mix and match suspension until this one day when we were stopped along the trail and these two clowns show up and start eyeballing my jeep, focusing in on the suspension. They gave me a really hard time about my mixed up suspension along with some pretty serious stink eye. As long as you stay away from these haters, your mix and match with probably be fine. We managed to click of a cell phone pic.
![]()
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5,093 Posts
Here is mine, the JK is not the problem, its my lack of driving skill that makes my JK an anchor. I just got the RK lowers because I bent the stockers at the mall. Dont worry though, I have a winch and my wife has a strong back, so she can help with pushing the JK. I run MC front lowers, thats okay right?
No ... Its going to explode LOL
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Yup, we don't care.. LOL. You never see us post up on our trail runs, must have RK suspension. Just bring a capable rig...Here is mine, the JK is not the problem, its my lack of driving skill that makes my JK an anchor. I just got the RK lowers because I bent the stockers at the mall. Dont worry though, I have a winch and my wife has a strong back, so she can help with pushing the JK. I run MC front lowers, thats okay right?
RK
Joined
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4,676 Posts
:gluging::gluging::gluging: It is almost beer thirty! At least we are having fun with this as much off topic as it is now...I was feeling pretty okay with my mix and match suspension until this one day when we were stopped along the trail and these two clowns show up and start eyeballing my jeep, focusing in on the suspension. They gave me a really hard time about my mixed up suspension along with some pretty serious stink eye. As long as you stay away from these haters, your mix and match with probably be fine. We managed to click of a cell phone pic.
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RK
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1,749 Posts
Let me make it simple. The shorter lowers will work with the stock uppers, but not the longer lowers. The longer lowers will not work with the short uppers, so they are sold in sets. If you want shorter uppers to go with the shorter lowers you can buy them. They used to be special order, now they are not. Who cares why they do it. It's not confusing to anyone, but you.I'll try to help you understand my question a little better.
Rock Krawler has 2 different sets of adjustable rear control arms. A Flex set and an X Factor set. The difference is the x factor set moves the axle back 1". 1" isn't a huge deal, so we are not looking at a huge spread from factory length to moving the axle back 1". But in that distance, RK uses 2 different sets of arms and Kjeeper10 had to special order (at the time?) his arms to fall into the middle between factory length and 1" stretch. Which makes it appear that there is a void in the middle that RK's 2 different arms do not cover.
Factory Control arms:
Upper 17 1/2"
Lowers 19 3/4"
Rock Krawler recommended starting points for 3.5" lift:
Flex lower 19 1/2" 2dr /20" 4dr
X-factor upper 19 1/8" 2dr/ 18 9/16" 4dr (1 1/16"-1 5/8" longer than stock)
X-Factor lower 20 5/8" 2dr/ 21" 4dr (7/8"-1 1/4" longer than stock)
Looking at RK's starting points, they range from about factory length on the flex lowers to 7/8"- 1 1/4" longer on the X factor lowers and 1 1/16" - 1 5/8" longer on the x factor uppers.
Now look at the range of a couple other arms.
Synergy:
Upper Min 18"/ Max 19 5/8"
Lower Min 19 3/4"/ Max 21 3/4"
Metalcloak:
Upper Min 17 3/4"/ Max 19"
Lower Min 19 3/4"/ 21"
Both Synergy and Metalcloak basically covers that range with 1 set of arms and Rock Krawler uses 2. Both Synergy and Metalcloak can cover or all but cover RK's X factor 1" stretch starting points. They do cover kjeeper10's "custom" length "mid arms" so no need for a special order. Their recommended lengths are 1/2"-1" longer than factory with room to extend a little farther but short enough to be used with the factory settings.
Metalcloaks recommended arm lengths are:
Uppers 18 7/16" (15/16" longer than stock)
Lowers 20 7/16" (11/16" longer than stock)
Synergy recommended arm lengths are"
Uppers 18 1/2"- 18 3/4" (1"- 1 1/4" longer than stock)
Lowers 20 1/4" (1/2" longer that stock)
It appears that Synergy and Metalcloak are both capable of accomplishing with 1 set of arms what it takes Rock krawler to do with 2 different sets of arms. Rock Krawler's X factor arms may be capable of a little longer Max length (no body knows), but keeping the factory frame mounts will only allow around 1" "stretch" before you start running into clearance issues and coil bow which starts going beyond a simple bolt on lift (which all of these are). The recommended starting points for Rock Krawlers X-factor arms are only slightly longer so there's not a HUGE difference.
That's hillarious. You're the one with all the numbers making a big deal over a little bit of adustablilty and then make that statement. Bahahahahah!
So basically RK has offered the "Flex" lowers without a matching upper until just recently, leaving quite a few people (I'm sure) thinking they could add the upper arms later. Later comes and they order the upper arms only to find out that the arms included in their "upgradable" lift are too short to work with the off the shelf arms. So now/finally RK has a second set of uppers?
RK gives you 2 choices without any information to help you make an informed decision. No Min/Max length to compare to other choices/option(YES, there are MANY other choices). No Min/Max length to compare to their own 2 choices. Nothing to help you determine if the arms are going to fit your current needs AND be able to accommodate your future plans. Basically just saying here they are, trust us.
Are the shorter Flex arms capable of the same range that other arms like Synergy's and Metalcloak's are?
Is the small difference between the recommended starting point on the X factor arms and Synergy or Metalcloak arms really that big of a deal (maybe the X factor arms have more to offer than what it appears).
Maybe I'm just over thinking it and there's no reason to be aware of what your purchasing.
I bought the longer RK arms, because I am confident in their strength and that they can be adjusted longer that MC or Synergy, wether RK is willing to type it on a forum or not.
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53 Posts
I have the extended warranty, so no worries.
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1,749 Posts
Hahahahahaahaha!!! CheersI was feeling pretty okay with my mix and match suspension until this one day when we were stopped along the trail and these two clowns show up and start eyeballing my jeep, focusing in on the suspension. They gave me a really hard time about my mixed up suspension along with some pretty serious stink eye. As long as you stay away from these haters, your mix and match with probably be fine. We managed to click of a cell phone pic.
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No it's not ok. Once you hose the mud off of them they're still going to be that gawd aweful goldish color..Here is mine, the JK is not the problem, its my lack of driving skill that makes my JK an anchor. I just got the RK lowers because I bent the stockers at the mall. Dont worry though, I have a winch and my wife has a strong back, so she can help with pushing the JK. I run MC front lowers, thats okay right?
You know if you have time to drink beer you have time to finger out the minimum and maximum lenghts of your arms. Now hop to it for the one person that wants it, so he can finally be relieved of his RK induced priapism.
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1,733 Posts
All of this talk of control arms is interesting and all, and I'm gonna let you finish. But the really important question is: What color shocks will go best with each manufacturer's control arms?
AMP
AMP
Now hop to it for the one person that wants it,.....
It's a shame that nobody else cares.
On the other hand, it really says a lot for Metalcloak and Synergy that they would go through all that trouble just for little ole me.
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53 Posts
I don't think its a matter of no one caring. I think most of us understanding that a good portion of offroaders buy kits when lifting their vehicle. The others of us who mix and match and have parts custom made know that we can usually call the manufacture and get answers to our questions. When we don't get answers or don't get the answers we were hoping for we know that we can move onto the next manufacturer of parts.
Its why I will not buy Fox shocks ever again and why I didn't purchase from a particular retailer for a length of time.
Anyways, gonna go wash the mud off my MC control arms and stare at the gold zinc coating or whatever they call it.
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