[jims68]

explained

Sorry, should of explained myself better.

 

[MoTech]

I prefer this picture. Jim did an amazing job bringing this JK back from what most considered a total loss. I don't think we will see as many 3.6's burned like the 3.8's, starting in 12' the the cooling system and transmission cooler have been greatly improved.

 

[Uncle Sams Misguided Child]

Sorry, should of explained myself better.

Fawk, I think you need this now.

 

[Apt]

Motech - I would like to search out wrecked donor vehicles. What year make and model specifically in a GM 1/2 ton (or whatever) am I looking for? Give me the whole search criteria please. Yukon? Tahoe? Whatever has the 5.3 with the 6 speed or the 6.2 with the 6 speed.
I see I can get a 2012 Silverado with a 6.2 for what appears to be a decent initial offering. I can't exactly go and tire kick it though. It is an auto, so is it safe to assume it would be a 6L80?
Thanks much.

 

[MoTech]

Motech - I would like to search out wrecked donor vehicles. What year make and model specifically in a GM 1/2 ton (or whatever) am I looking for? Give me the whole search criteria please. Yukon? Tahoe? Whatever has the 5.3 with the 6 speed or the 6.2 with the 6 speed.
I see I can get a 2012 Silverado with a 6.2 for what appears to be a decent initial offering. I can't exactly go and tire kick it though. It is an auto, so is it safe to assume it would be a 6L80?
Thanks much.

Good timing for this question. You can use any 5.3 or 6.2 Truck/SUV Gen IV engine from 2007-2013. This includes Silverado's, Sierra's, Yukon's, Escalades, Denali's, Suburbans, etc.

We now support 2WD transmissions. So if you find a 2WD truck with a 6l80 we can supply you with an adapter to fit it to your 241J transfer case.

We now support the 6.0 liter truck engine. This is good news, the 6.0 liter engine gives near 6.2 performance at near 5.3 pricing. A 6.0 engine costs about 1/2 as much as a 6.2. The VVT 6.0 liter engine is used in HD trucks and it pulls hard in a JK, it is designed to haul weight. The 6.0 uses a cast iron block but it is less than 50lbs heavier than the 6.2 and much lighter than a Hemi. It is a great engine and a new production line 6.0 crate engine with coils, intake, etc. is under $4k, a real bargin. The 6.0 liter engines come with the 6l90 transmissions, we do not support the 6l90 transmission. We have now built (4) 6.0/6l80 JK's and it turns out putting the 6l80 behind the 6.0 is no problem since the 6l80 and 90 are so similar.

The 6l80's are all similar except for the TCM which is inside the transmission. A good rule of thumb is get a transmission from the same year vehicle as the engine, this way the OS's will be compatable. Of coarse if you can get the engine and trans from the same vehicle that is even better. The TCM's can be swapped out but they are not cheap. If you get a engine and transmission from different vehicles most likley the TCM will need to be reprogrammed. Starting in 2010 GM got smart and pretty much used the same TCM for the next few years, but to be safe get a trans from the same year vehicle as the engine.

To be technical here are some of the engines I recommend. The 3 digit code is the engine family.

2007-2008 6.2 L92 (aluminum block, VVT)
2009-2010 6.2 L9H (aluminum block, VVT and flex fuel)
2010-2013 6.2 L94 (aluminum block, VVT, AFM and flex fuel)
2007-2009 5.3 LH6 (aluminum block, AFM)
2007-2009 5.3 LC9 (aluminum block, AFM and flex fuel)
2010-2013 5.3 LC9 (aluminum block, AFM, VVT, and flex fuel)

The LY6 and L76 6.0 are great engines and are found in HD trucks. They all have VVT and some have AFM. The 4.8 and 5.3 cast iron engines are great engines. Some LY5's and LMG's are available with VVT and AFM. The 4.8's are a great bargin, I have seen iron 4.8's go for as low as $500 and they power the JK fine. I paid $800 for an iron 5.3 we use as a test stand engine.

Don't think you need a VVT 5.3. The non VVT 5.3's have higher compression and put out about 320 hp and over 300 ft lbs of torque. All the 5.3's work well and like stock gearing. For best mpg the 5.3 can run 3:21 gears with tires up to 33".

We have run a few passenger car LS's and they work OK. The truck LS's are designed to put out torque at lower RPM's. If you must run a passenger LS we can support it, please call for details.

 

[Uncle Sams Misguided Child]

^^ And that right there is the reason if I ever do an LS swap I know who I am going to.

 

[Jeep2.0]

More Hands-On Experience

Guys, let me chime in here. I completed my Motech-kit LS 5.3 swap about a month ago (the night before leaving for Moab). My build thread can be found elsewhere here under "Central Texas LS Swap Party", so I won't detail those items here. What I will offer is two key points:

Point 1: Motech - I spent nearly 3 days in Vegas at Motech's shop after Moab. I guarantee you will not find *anyone* out there that has Motech's two key features: a) Depth of technical knowledge, and b) Support, honesty, and helpfulness.

Point 1a): I was a knowledge leech on Robbie for those days, and, while am no CanBus expert, have two engineering degrees (one is electrical) - I can tell you Robbie left me in the dust on a number of occasions. He was nice enough to slow down & explain himself, but this guy's no hacker & no fake. His kit works because he understands how it all works under the hood, both on the JK side as well as the LS side (which is much better documented in the aftermarket than the JK side). Read his responses to this thread alone...ever see anyone else explain exactly what it takes to make a 2012 cooling fan run? Or just talk about cheap swaps? What good are cheap swaps that don't work? And that's long before getting to the smog question. This isn't about getting power windows or remote start to run - this is about getting the vehicle to actually work: start, run, cool itself, shut off, etc. Think about it: the JK ignition switch integrates with the JK canbus system, and the LS ECM is looking for signals the engine is running too. How are you going to start the LS motor? Then there's Air conditioning, gear shift position indication on the dash, etc as mentioned here. It's NOT simple. But it can be done.

Point 1b): I've called & talked to every company offering swap kits and offering to do the swaps. I emailed them too. Remember, I'm an anal-retentive engineer. The level of support, patience, help in making decisions, etc that I got from Motech before the sale is what convinced me to buy their kit. BUT, the level of support during & after the swap was light-years more than even his own helpfulness before the sale. (read my build thread for some examples) And let me tell you - when you're stuck, late at night, the week before moab, without $7500 in diagnostic scanners, and your complicated JK/LS swap won't run right, who are you going to call? That's right - Motech. And they answer. And they help. Until you're happy. No matter what the kit costs, that right there is priceless.

Point 2) Cost.
Being an anal-retentive engineer, I followed Motech's Bill of Materials to the letter. I kept track of my costs, even including the special tools I really didn't 100% need but that were helpful (or a contingency plan...this was also an excuse to buy a few more tools!) What I will tell you is this:

Even at today's prices - not the future lower cost one that Motech is aiming for - but right now: IF you can get a complete engine & trans together for $2K, you can absolutely do this swap for under $10K. That's including Motech's $5195 "Basic Builder's Kit", all the OEM GM parts you need, everything. This means competitively shopping online, ensuring you only get exactly what you need, you already have a good set of tools, etc. Then any cost you get back selling your engine & trans is a bonus - you're approaching $8500-$9000 after that.

To hit that, best bet is to find the iron block 5.3 Robbie mentioned above, and get everything you need on it - starter, dipsticks, engine mounts, etc. Those things add up fast.

One other thing that helps you hit the cost is to have all the parts included (or listed out ahead of time) and to have everything you expect to work, work after the swap. I was at Robbie's shop when a customer of another swap company called him, begging Robbie to take his Jeep in to fix what the other shop couldn't get working. This wasn't a DIY kit - this was someone who charged almost $20K & it wasn't right! And that wasn't on a 2012/2013 - those are even harder to get working right. Robbie has to charge this guy to get his stuff running. That is not the way to keep your swap cheap.

Last thing: before you plunk down $8K, $10K, or $18-$20K, DRIVE it. Check out what works & what doesn't. Anyone near Austin Texas is welcome to drive mine anytime.

 

[bo9roadking]

Anyone near Austin Texas is welcome to drive mine anytime.

^^^ +1
I can vouch for this. I drove Jeep2.0 a few weekends ago and I had to get a drool bucket. There was something about riding on the Interstate and around town taking a unique Jeep for an extraordinary test drive. With the soft top windows out and the sound of a V8 rumble mixing with the wind in your ears, along with the torque on demand that you feel, the sensation is unbelievable.

I have the 3.6 Pentastar with the 5 speed transmission and even with its published hp being what I would consider only slightly less than the 5.3 LS on paper (about 30hp), the additional low end torque of the 5.3 V8 along with the lower first gear of the GM 6L80 six speed transmission is incredible. As an added bonus from what I've been reading, the LS motor with that transmission gets better average mpg than my JKU.

I hope to do this swap in the future. Thanks Jeff for letting me drive your awesome JKU.

Jim

 

[Jeep2.0]

^^^ +1
I hope to do this swap in the future. Thanks Jeff for letting me drive your awesome JKU.
Jim

Anytime, Jim! Now we gotta get your profile photo updated to show what a cool Jeep you have!

 

[mschaffer66]

I think this thread has sealed the deal for the direction I will be heading. I've always known I wanted to do an LS swap. I wanted to try and do it myself from the ground up for pride reasons and also because I had thought I could save money. I don't see that being the case now. I think there is serious value in not having to reinvent the wheel. I also think I'd rather spend more time at work doing what I know how to do than in the garage patching together some CF mess trying to say I did it and saved $$

What I liked the most was that MoTech was kinda hit with a few, "Why do I need your expensive kit?" questions and instead of responding in a pissy way as some vendors would provided us with very good, technical reasons why we need their kit.

I'm in...just gotta get the funding. :lol:

 

[Jeep2.0]

mschaffer66: I think you made a good decision: the Motech Kit will save you countless hours (days/weeks/months) of headaches.

I wasn't clear from your post though whether you just chose to use a kit, or whether you want to have someone do the swap for you.

As to whether you should do it yourself using the Motech kit, or whether you should have someone do it for you: While only you can answer this, I'll throw this out there:

-After doing it yourself you will know your Jeep like never before - very handy when out on long Jeep trips.
-With good hand tools and some helpful friends, this is within the capability of most good home shop / shadetree mechanics.
-You can outsource the welding for $100-$200 if you don't weld.
-It's easy to add other accessories & such when the Jeep is apart
-You will save $5000 to $8000, depending on how hard you shop
-You will be seen as very cool by most of the Jeepers you come across (if this is important to you). It's not important to me, but it is a good feeling to see the looks on their faces when I tell them I did it myself. I didn't think it was that big of a deal, but lots of guys do, even the guys who do all their own wrenching & installs.

You'll definitely need other transportation while this is happening. It's up to you whether you want to take vacation days, nights & weekends to do this or spend that time working to earn $. I'd say with taking one week off, and consistently working nights & weekends, you can do it in a month, especially if you keep the non-swap extras low. If you're easily intimidated, it's not for you. It requires many moments of deep breathing & calmness as you work through issues, small & large.

In the end, I'm glad I did mine. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about doing one yourself or not.

 

[Apt]

mschaffer66: I think you made a good decision: the Motech Kit will save you countless hours (days/weeks/months) of headaches.

I wasn't clear from your post though whether you just chose to use a kit, or whether you want to have someone do the swap for you.

As to whether you should do it yourself using the Motech kit, or whether you should have someone do it for you: While only you can answer this, I'll throw this out there:

-After doing it yourself you will know your Jeep like never before - very handy when out on long Jeep trips.
-With good hand tools and some helpful friends, this is within the capability of most good home shop / shadetree mechanics.
-You can outsource the welding for $100-$200 if you don't weld.
-It's easy to add other accessories & such when the Jeep is apart
-You will save $5000 to $8000, depending on how hard you shop
-You will be seen as very cool by most of the Jeepers you come across (if this is important to you). It's not important to me, but it is a good feeling to see the looks on their faces when I tell them I did it myself. I didn't think it was that big of a deal, but lots of guys do, even the guys who do all their own wrenching & installs.

You'll definitely need other transportation while this is happening. It's up to you whether you want to take vacation days, nights & weekends to do this or spend that time working to earn $. I'd say with taking one week off, and consistently working nights & weekends, you can do it in a month, especially if you keep the non-swap extras low. If you're easily intimidated, it's not for you. It requires many moments of deep breathing & calmness as you work through issues, small & large.

In the end, I'm glad I did mine. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about doing one yourself or not.

Great post. Thanks for your honesty and sincerity on this swap. Like mschaffer, I'm also considering this strongly. I have a vision to make this happen as a DIY venture. I'd love to drop the jeep off and have it done, but $20k is just not in the budget this year or next year.

 

[mschaffer66]

mschaffer66: I think you made a good decision: the Motech Kit will save you countless hours (days/weeks/months) of headaches.

I wasn't clear from your post though whether you just chose to use a kit, or whether you want to have someone do the swap for you.

As to whether you should do it yourself using the Motech kit, or whether you should have someone do it for you: While only you can answer this, I'll throw this out there:

-After doing it yourself you will know your Jeep like never before - very handy when out on long Jeep trips.
-With good hand tools and some helpful friends, this is within the capability of most good home shop / shadetree mechanics.
-You can outsource the welding for $100-$200 if you don't weld.
-It's easy to add other accessories & such when the Jeep is apart
-You will save $5000 to $8000, depending on how hard you shop
-You will be seen as very cool by most of the Jeepers you come across (if this is important to you). It's not important to me, but it is a good feeling to see the looks on their faces when I tell them I did it myself. I didn't think it was that big of a deal, but lots of guys do, even the guys who do all their own wrenching & installs.

You'll definitely need other transportation while this is happening. It's up to you whether you want to take vacation days, nights & weekends to do this or spend that time working to earn $. I'd say with taking one week off, and consistently working nights & weekends, you can do it in a month, especially if you keep the non-swap extras low. If you're easily intimidated, it's not for you. It requires many moments of deep breathing & calmness as you work through issues, small & large.

In the end, I'm glad I did mine. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about doing one yourself or not.

I'll do everything myself or with the help of a friend or two.

Nothing but the down time really concerns me. I keep dragging my feet on buying a different DD just because I love driving the JK.

Actually the cost is really the only real concern. I like projects where you can slowly fund them through out. I don't like things where you drop a bunch of coin all at once. It seems like the V8 swap is the later of the two. I think what I will probably do is work on sourcing the engine and trans and all of the extras that Motech has on their list. Then when that is all ready pull the trigger on their kit and start.

Thanks for all the info

 

[mschaffer66]

Everyone always asks me when I'm going to put a Hemi in it... I laugh and say I plan on doing something better.

I honestly don't know why anyone would ever waste their time with the Hemi swaps. I'm sure that comment will make some people butt hurt, but there is no denying the fact that GM makes a superior drivetrain in the LS/6l80e.

I guess if the Hemi was an absolute bolt in swap like putting Rubi axles in a Sport it would be worth considering. But if you are dealing with harnesses, computers, mounts, etc... you might as well do it right

 

[Jeep2.0]

I'll do everything myself or with the help of a friend or two.

Nothing but the down time really concerns me. I keep dragging my feet on buying a different DD just because I love driving the JK.

Actually the cost is really the only real concern. I like projects where you can slowly fund them through out. I don't like things where you drop a bunch of coin all at once. It seems like the V8 swap is the later of the two. I think what I will probably do is work on sourcing the engine and trans and all of the extras that Motech has on their list. Then when that is all ready pull the trigger on their kit and start.

Thanks for all the info

Ah. Good. I think you'll love it in the end.

On the DD: I had a *very* good friend who has a bunch of cars. He loaned me his YJ for my DD while I did the swap. It was a huge help. I'm doing some work for him on it as a 'thank you'. You may also find a killer deal on an old import pickup & sell it when you're done for as much as you paid for it.

I spread my costs out much like you're planning. Find the engine/trans first. It took me 2 failed 'deals' with salvage yards before I scored the one that really did include everything they said. (Some believe a "complete engine & trans" doesn't include coil packs or throttle bodies!) My 3rd time was the charm, complete, shipped for a good price, and included almost everything.

But, I wouldn't collect all the GM parts on Motech's kit until you were almost ready to buy the kit. Robbie is updating his kit frequently & you may wind up with parts you don't need.

Also, I wouldn't buy his kit until ~4-6 weeks before you have time set aside to do the swap. I didn't do this - it was closer to - gulp - a year! There were several improvements made along the way. The later kits are definitely the best ones he's produced. All are perfectly functional (his wife drives swap #1 as her daily driver...with the baby!), but the later ones are easiest to install & get right the 1st time.

So find the motor, save the pennies for the kit & parts at once. That's my $.02 anyway.

 

[sbindley]

Update. I've decided not to do the Hemi and am going with the Maggie blower, gears, exhaust and a custom tune instead. I just don't want to give up the 6-speed manual and don't have the time to wait for a T56 conversion. The guys at V8HJ are still doing the work, and I will get another JK over to them this summer as part of a charity build I am doing for the Phoenix Children's Hospital.

Those of you in the Phoenix area who are interested in a V8 should check these guys out. Their work is first rate and they are great to deal with.

I know the blower will not be close to the Hemi's power and torque, but it should be great for how we use the Jeep and will make the manual even more fun to drive. If I can get close to 300 flywheel hp good low end grunt, I'll be happy. Also, it is less than half the price...

 

[ALASHA]

Update. I've decided not to do the Hemi and am going with the Maggie blower, gears, exhaust and a custom tune instead.

I know the blower will not be close to the Hemi's power and torque, but it should be great for how we use the Jeep and will make the manual even more fun to drive. If I can get close to 300 flywheel hp good low end grunt, I'll be happy. Also, it is less than half the price...

You shouldnt have a problem making 300 at the flywheel assuming they know what they are doing. The Avenger kit adds 55% so you are looking at 310 hp at the fly wheel right there.

 

[sbindley]

I'm going with the Magnacharger. I expect similar gains.

 

[ALASHA]

I'm going with the Magnacharger. I expect similar gains.

Advertised increase of 40% (even less in TQ) so you will be close to your target but still below...

 

[Jeep2.0]

I'm going with the Magnacharger. I expect similar gains.

Can I ask a question? Why the blower? Is it simply cost?
$5200 for the blower
~$10000 for a budget DIY LS swap, minus what you sell your engine & trans for, or ~$9000 total.