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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good evening everyone! Well I am new to the site......and I already have learned a lot and like it much better then the one that I was banned from. ( another story for another post I am sure, just have to say that that guy is a tool and I am much happier over here!) Anyhow...........Looking for people running the Clayton Off Road 4.5" long arm lift. I have yet to lift my Jeep and have been doing my research. It is between this and the Rock Krawler kit. All input is appreciated!
 

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Welcome to the lighter side of things.....

Eddie and all the moderators on JK-forum are tremendously huge douchbags. Everyone knows that.

I would go with Rock Krawler. I have no real knowledge about clayton, but I have a RK kit, and many on here do, and I never hear anyone complain, at all. Nothing but positive in all respects. Service, durability, what have you. I myself, could not be happier and all I have is there 2.5 inch stock mod kit (just the basics, no control arms).

Good luck with your decision!
 

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Welcome! Keep asking questions. Read a lot. My one good friend is running a clayton. Bunch others have rk. That's what we sell the most. Enjoy. Christian

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
 

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The Rock Krawler lift offers either 3-link rear or 3-link front and it is worth every penny. Less binding and less stress on componets which is why they desgined it the way they did. Since the JK has a wider longer stance than previous wranglers even the 3-link setup up front rides like a dream even at 90+mph :grinpimp:. I do not have any exposure to Clayton and they are rarely a mentioned on the forums I visit.


Good luck with the build:beer:
 

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Official Monkey Business
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lol you'll get lots of us RK runners posting up. Great suspension. I haven't looked at the Clayton but have read some good things about it.
 

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If you want to know more about Clayton Suspensions, you need to talk with the GC crowd. That seems to be the most recommended manufactuer for GC lifts out there.

Both Clayton and RK offer a lifetime warrenty and I have heard both have great customer service.

On the joint end, RK runs a home grown spherical rod end with 40 degrees of rotational movement (20 degrees off center line).

CS runs a JJ that if memory serves, and offers 30 degrees of rotational movement (15 degrees off center).


The bushing/axle end, RK runs a PTMEG poly type of bushing that has been shaped to offer more flex.

CS runs a Clevite rubber bushing that offers greater vibration isolation and less flex.

RK runs a 2" solid 1018-1020 rod. (Read very heavy, lot of unsprung weight)

CS runs 2x2x.25 wall square tube. (Not as heavy and much less unsprung weight)

RK is going to offer more flex, but also heavier. I would think that this would be good off road, but you can get into the conversation of too much flex. The extra weight and PTMEG can have more of a negative impact on road.

CS is going to offer the better of both worlds with good flex and performance off road while having better road manners due to the lighter weight and clevite bushings.

So from there it comes to price and support.

I would suggest you do a parts list comparison between the two and weigh out the difference in cost and need.

As I said, both offer lifetime warrenty and are commited to their customers. RK gets a lot of thumbs up from the JK community, but I know Clayton gets a lot good reviews from the GC community. You may want to talk to some wheelers on mallcrawlin.com for Claytons information.
 

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Isnt the Clayton long arm only a front long arm at the moment? I thought they are still designing the rear.

So for the same price as the RK long arms, you only get half a long arm?
 

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Welcome to the forum!

There is not a lot of guys here running the Clayton stuff. So, not sure how much feedback you will be getting there. I am sure they are decent though. BUT, the Rock Krawler Kits have a very proven track record with a warranty to back it up for a lifetime!

So, not knowing much about the offerings from Clayton, it would be hard to turn down the RK setup. Especially if the price is right....

-Jason
 

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i run the clayton lift, very happy with it so far (haven't put nearly enough trails on it to tout all about it), but i haven't ridden in a rig with a rock krawler to compare it to. as mentioned, the guys at clayton (adam and clayton) were great to deal with as i've heard the rock krawler people are also.

good luck with your selection, i don't think you can really go wrong with either.

-as for the long arm, i believe the clayton is only the front for now as they are continuing to develop the rear (adam can chime in to correct me if i'm wrong).

:beer:
 

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Isnt the Clayton long arm only a front long arm at the moment? I thought they are still designing the rear.

So for the same price as the RK long arms, you only get half a long arm?
They sell complete kits. But only have the front long arm done right now and listed on their site. I would be curious to find out what steel they are using for the arms. So hopefully they will chime in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Wow this is a lot of information already!! I appreciate all of the comments....Keep em coming. I am still looking at both of them and still have a while till I pull the trigger. Just have to keep researching...
Thanks guys
 

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Maybe I missed it, but do you have a 2012, or an older JK? When I talked to Adam a month or two ago, he told me the long arm wasn't intended for the 2012 frame. They weren't sure how much mods it would take to fit it right...just FYI.
 

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For right now, the major differences are not just our construction, but our geometry.

Here at Rock Krawler we use a multi-link setup which we feel is more robust than a radius arm setup. We just feel a radius are setup will experience a tremendous amount of stress on the bushings and connections. Especially when alot of JK's are being built that tip the scales well over 6500 pounds. Only time will tell though as the only major company to offer radius arms really did not give them a great name on JK's. Let us know if you have any specific questions. When Clayton gets done with their full long arm system, we will be able to give accurate weight comparisons as well. If you would like, you could always go with our PRO aluminum products if you are really worried about weight! However, we are willing to bet, by the time their long arm is all said and done, we are within 50 pounds of one another. Clayton's products (arms and brackets) are pretty heavy as well. Which is a good thing in our POV since it minimizes breakage.

RK
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Mine is a 2009 2Dr Sahara. Still in the search. I have not dismissed the Rock Krawler kit at all, if anything this is bringing it back into a tie. I am currently researching more of the Rock Krawler stuff.

Question How much actual lift will I get with the Rock Krawler 3.5 Long arm and what about the 5.5 Kit?

Thanks
 

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A heavy multi link suspension with super flexy ends is going to perform better off road then on to a point. But you make a trade in the DD handling and street drivability when you go this route.

Even if two kits weigh the same, the differences in design and performance target are going to come into play. Do you want a heavy, but super flexy suspension that is going to perform great off road? Or do you want a lighter weight suspension, that is going to perform well off road, but handle better on the street?

Radius arms are going to better on road. Tried and true design and still in use by a lot of lift manufacturers, RE, TnT, Clayton, Full Traction, Pro Comp etc and there is a reason why SCORE trucks use them almost exclusively… But they do have a binding issue off road, especially if the suspension cycle is pretty extreme. That is why a lot of ford guys have gone to a wrist pin in the radius arms for a 4" or better lift.

But radius arms are moot if you aren't going to a LA setup...

Multi-link setups with flexy bushings will give you much better articulation and less stress on the bushings, but then you need to address too much flex and enter in things like limiting straps. These are done to keep things like your shocks, springs, drive shafts all working and doing what they need to do. You don’t want your shocks being the limiting factor or you start replacing shocks. Once your springs unload, they are no longer doing the work and stop helping with traction in high articulation suspensions. If to much flex isn’t a bad thing, then ask yourself why did Currie create the AntiRock and use it on their rock crawling buggy? Last, drive shafts, too much flex and you and have to start looking at high angle drivelines to keep your shafts from breaking.

Both Radius and traditional multi link suspensions have the same flaw however, it is the change in steering direction as the suspension flexes due to the radial arc the suspensions have to work with. Having run several lifts and styles, I never really noticed how this impacted my lines until I ran dual triangulated rear suspension in my last jeep. Google: Rear Steer in suspensions for a better explanation on this.

A properly designed suspension shouldn’t just be cool, or have the best customer service or warranty. It should offer what the end user is going to need. It should be light weight, be durable and keep most the weight sprung. It should offer flexibility, yet remain streetable as well for those that have rigs that do dual service of wheeling rig and DD and having to drive back and forth to the trail. Oh, and affordable is always nice...

There are reasons that kits like RK and AEV (I mention AEV because IIMO, they are the polar opposite to RK in purpose and function beyond just lifting your rig) exist. It will really comes down to what are you willing to sacrifice when you lift your rig?

I would also look at MetalCloak's arms. I haven't got into the detail of the materials yet, but I do like how they build them using the right geometry, higher misalignment in the bushing and the idea behind the bushings material(hopefully not an RE bushing issue, take two).
 

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Mine is a 2009 2Dr Sahara. Still in the search. I have not dismissed the Rock Krawler kit at all, if anything this is bringing it back into a tie. I am currently researching more of the Rock Krawler stuff.

Question How much actual lift will I get with the Rock Krawler 3.5 Long arm and what about the 5.5 Kit?

Thanks
I think the real question that no one has taken the time to ask is how are you going to be using your Jeep?

How large of a tire are you interested in running?

Are you planning to keep your stock flares or looking at aftermarket options?

I run the 2.5" springs on my two door and sit at the same height as a four door on 3.5 coils. The 5.5 kit will give you ever bit of that much lift. Check out TEXASKEV's rig for an idea on the height of the 5.5...that's what he's got on his two door.

You're looking at two fine suspension manufacturers. Who runs what and who knows about one or the other really shouldn't sway your decision one way or another. Both will do what you ask of them and either would be a great choice. Rock Krawler has offered long arms for quite some time with good results. Consider this in your ultimate decision.

On the other hand, getting into the extreme technicalities of it all is just going to make your head spin and confuse you more. I can appreciate a guy like Snotty's approach to the systems but 99% of the Jeep owners on this board will be 110% satisfied with the systems that these companies are putting out and never see the difference in the specifics of joints and bushings. :) (As long as they are GOOD bushings...ha ha)

I would pick up the phone and chat with the guys at Clayton as well as the team at Rock Krawler and feel them both out.

There are some very sweet deals on RK right now that will be going away come 2012. :)

Marcus
 

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Scotty

Until any weights are compared on systems are known there is not much of a point in discussing it. Radius arms are used in Desert Racing is because it is based on simple full axle movement (basic up and down motion). They require little to no articulation for Desert Racing and radius arms are simple to design. Well rounded suspension design required mutli link designs in our opinion. You can adjust your instant centers for a desired end result.

We do completely understand what you are saying. It is not like you are comparing something that wieghs a huge amount more than another at this point. But, geometry is very easy to discuss and point out the differences.

Between us and AEV, alot of our steering geometry corrections are identical. You really do not get any choices when it comes to drag link flip. Either the geometry is right or it is wrong and there are no gray area's.

Our products are designed to perform well off road, but handle similar to stock when on road. Alot of items will very depending on overall vehicle build such as sway bars, shocks, top weights of the rig etc.

For Metal Cloaks new joints, we will definitely all give it time for sure. We hope they do well. We are just as curious as everyone else to see how a joint shaped like a football will perform the desired function of a sphere without bushing wear or the fact that the cartridge is a slip fit inside the housing. The cool thing is they are triing something different! There has not been a completely new concept on joints in the industry since our Krawler Joints in 2004. All we have done with our Krawler Joints is make them more consumer friendly over time.

This is all just food for thought..

RK

A heavy multi link suspension with super flexy ends is going to perform better off road then on to a point. But you make a trade in the DD handling and street drivability when you go this route.

Even if two kits weigh the same, the differences in design and performance target are going to come into play. Do you want a heavy, but super flexy suspension that is going to perform great off road? Or do you want a lighter weight suspension, that is going to perform well off road, but handle better on the street?

Radius arms are going to better on road. Tried and true design and still in use by a lot of lift manufacturers, RE, TnT, Clayton, Full Traction, Pro Comp etc and there is a reason why SCORE trucks use them almost exclusively… But they do have a binding issue off road, especially if the suspension cycle is pretty extreme. That is why a lot of ford guys have gone to a wrist pin in the radius arms for a 4" or better lift.

But radius arms are moot if you aren't going to a LA setup...

Multi-link setups with flexy bushings will give you much better articulation and less stress on the bushings, but then you need to address too much flex and enter in things like limiting straps. These are done to keep things like your shocks, springs, drive shafts all working and doing what they need to do. You don’t want your shocks being the limiting factor or you start replacing shocks. Once your springs unload, they are no longer doing the work and stop helping with traction in high articulation suspensions. If to much flex isn’t a bad thing, then ask yourself why did Currie create the AntiRock and use it on their rock crawling buggy? Last, drive shafts, too much flex and you and have to start looking at high angle drivelines to keep your shafts from breaking.

Both Radius and traditional multi link suspensions have the same flaw however, it is the change in steering direction as the suspension flexes due to the radial arc the suspensions have to work with. Having run several lifts and styles, I never really noticed how this impacted my lines until I ran dual triangulated rear suspension in my last jeep. Google: Rear Steer in suspensions for a better explanation on this.

A properly designed suspension shouldn’t just be cool, or have the best customer service or warranty. It should offer what the end user is going to need. It should be light weight, be durable and keep most the weight sprung. It should offer flexibility, yet remain streetable as well for those that have rigs that do dual service of wheeling rig and DD and having to drive back and forth to the trail. Oh, and affordable is always nice...

There are reasons that kits like RK and AEV (I mention AEV because IIMO, they are the polar opposite to RK in purpose and function beyond just lifting your rig) exist. It will really comes down to what are you willing to sacrifice when you lift your rig?

I would also look at MetalCloak's arms. I haven't got into the detail of the materials yet, but I do like how they build them using the right geometry, higher misalignment in the bushing and the idea behind the bushings material(hopefully not an RE bushing issue, take two).
 

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I am about to get my rig lifted with the 2.5 RK kit and then Daystar 1'' spacers. I'll be running 35's and it will be SEXY. I can't wait. Have heard nothing bad about the RK kits. It made my decision easy!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I think the real question that no one has taken the time to ask is how are you going to be using your Jeep?

How large of a tire are you interested in running?

Are you planning to keep your stock flares or looking at aftermarket options?

I run the 2.5" springs on my two door and sit at the same height as a four door on 3.5 coils. The 5.5 kit will give you ever bit of that much lift. Check out TEXASKEV's rig for an idea on the height of the 5.5...that's what he's got on his two door.

You're looking at two fine suspension manufacturers. Who runs what and who knows about one or the other really shouldn't sway your decision one way or another. Both will do what you ask of them and either would be a great choice. Rock Krawler has offered long arms for quite some time with good results. Consider this in your ultimate decision.

On the other hand, getting into the extreme technicalities of it all is just going to make your head spin and confuse you more. I can appreciate a guy like Snotty's approach to the systems but 99% of the Jeep owners on this board will be 110% satisfied with the systems that these companies are putting out and never see the difference in the specifics of joints and bushings. :) (As long as they are GOOD bushings...ha ha)

I would pick up the phone and chat with the guys at Clayton as well as the team at Rock Krawler and feel them both out.

There are some very sweet deals on RK right now that will be going away come 2012. :)

Marcus
Very good info Marcus. I am mainly going to be using my jeep for a DD as well as something i can use to do anything. One of my main concerns is I don't want to get into a lift that I will not be happy with or have to replace because of it's limitations or the fact that is goes to junk. I would rather buy a lift once. As far as tires I was thinking 35"-37" don't want to regret a 35" two months later. I am new to the jeep world, and I just want to set it up right the first time....if that makes sense. I am by no means using this to sway me...Just getting informed......thanks everyone!:beer:
 
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