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Is that one gold plated?

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Yeah before I pulled the warranty papers out, they were telling me 3-4 hours of labor @ $195/hr, ~$95 for 2 hoses, the rest for radiator itself + coolant.

I started laughing and told them do whatever they want because it's only $100 out of my pocket to cover the deductible...
 

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Over the past few days my 3rd CSF radiator has gone from a very small leak, to much more significant. I reached out to C&R Racing to ask about their warranty and the radiator. This is part of the response I received:

"Our warranty is 1 year from date of purchase.

The core we use has extruded cooling tubes, unlike all the others on the market.
Our core is considerably stronger because of this. We also utilize corner sub headers, which strengthen the cooling tube and header flange connection.

One thing I will say is, Jeep’s in general are very hard on radiators. Based on design and construction they put an abnormal amount of torsional twisting on the core support / radiator.
Many manufacturers find it difficult to get their radiators to live very long in Jeep’s."

I ended up calling to follow-up and order one. He indicated that they've been building their current design for 3 years and they haven't had issues with these leaking, despite the stresses associated with the JK and its flexible core support. So, they'll be shipping me the radiator on Monday. I'll get around to the install next weekend. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
 

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After reading the responses from other manufactures and talking to the builder that RPMExtreme uses they are all in the same boat of trying to keep there radiators from the stresses they go thru.

I just received my new radiator and it looks solid, plus it is the 52mm up from the original 48mm that I had originally installed. One thing stated was they are trying to strengthen the cores up but you can only go so far before they become to rigid, then they just crack because from lack of ability to flex at all.

I can not remember now all the numbers but he did state that the materials used where all thicker than the standard assemblies. Headers, tubes, fin's and tanks all using the thicker metals. Plus strengthening of the corner areas.

I was hoping to install it this weekend but a spring freeze and ice showed up Sat. So first part of next week we will see how it goes. Hopefully this is the fix.

I am not adding any more of the tablets to this one, as I did not drain the system and do not want to over do it with additives.
 

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I’m curious if rather than trying to make a physically stronger radiator it would make sense to develop a different mounting system all together?
 

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I’m curious if rather than trying to make a physically stronger radiator it would make sense to develop a different mounting system all together?
That's what I ended up doing. The big arsed unit I had made weighed a bomb and slowly ripped the lower mounts off.
I now run a C type channel where the radiator sits in it and the upper mount's only job is to locate, not carry any weight.
I'll get some pics up soon.



 

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I'm curious to see how well that works. Are you still securing the top of the radiator using the stock rubber isolators? If you look at post #3 from Jon at RPM, he seems to think the top mount is more problematic than the bottom (if I understood his post correctly).
 

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I'm curious to see how well that works. Are you still securing the top of the radiator using the stock rubber isolators? If you look at post #3 from Jon at RPM, he seems to think the top mount is more problematic than the bottom (if I understood his post correctly).
I've ran this mount for 18 months on the first radiator. I had issues with the core separating so this new unit has the steel insert ( as per RPMs post) removed, but will look at other ways to keep top top of unit against the radiator support. I have something in mind and will share later.
 

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I'm curious to see how well that works. Are you still securing the top of the radiator using the stock rubber isolators? If you look at post #3 from Jon at RPM, he seems to think the top mount is more problematic than the bottom (if I understood his post correctly).
Yes, that is what I am going to do. I have got some shoulder bolts where as the shoulder just goes past the rubber isolator.
 

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I received my C&R on Wednesday and started working on it last night. Got the old CSF pulled out and just like the two before it, it is leaking on the driver side where the tubes meet the tank. I got the C&R set into place and put the hoses together. I'll finish getting everything put back tonight and see how it does. I still have to figure out if I'm going to try something different with the upper mounts. I may get a shouldered bolt and modify the rubber like Jon discussed in his post, or I may just see if the beefier C&R will hold up without it. I have a year warranty, so we'll see.

Just looking at the C&R, it seems like it's more reinforced than the CSF. However, it's only 42mm vs the 52mm I had with the CSF. I'll see if it makes much difference in cooling. After installing the Pentastar PWM fan, I never saw temperatures abover 200 with the CSF. It always stayed between 188 and 200, so I'll watch to see if it gets much higher with the thinner C&R. Hopefully this is the last radiator I buy for a while.
 

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The idea to keep the radiator located but allow some room to move, had me come up this idea. Whilst my radiator has a different lower mount, I can't see why this idea can't be used on the OEM mount.
I have removed the factory steel insert as well. The spring pictured was cut in half and trimmed to allow me to tailer it to suit the bolt length.

 

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That's what I ended up doing. The big arsed unit I had made weighed a bomb and slowly ripped the lower mounts off.
I now run a C type channel where the radiator sits in it and the upper mount's only job is to locate, not carry any weight.
I'll get some pics up soon.

That's a nice setup and smart to leave the upper mounts for positioning only. I like the added spring idea you used for the shoulder bolts also. Allows the upper to "float" in a more controlled manner.

I actually think the stock radiator is decent for what it is but as it has been mentioned, it's the mounting / twisting that's causing the issues regardless if you're using a stock or aftermarket radiator.
 

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I have a JKU with 40K on an LS3 swap and I am in the process of installing my fourth radiator. They all have leaked near the end tank close to the bottom spigot. I too believe that there is an issue with uncontrolled flexing and vibration of the radiators. Jon at RPM Extreme has been great working with me to replace the radiators that go bad but so far I have not solved the problem of why they go bad. My conversion runs the Camaro accessory drive and water pump. Knowing something about metal fatigue and stress (Civil Engineer) I have started looking at the close proximity of the water pump spigot to the lower radiator hose spigot since the leaks all seem to occur very near this location and all have involved cracked welds where the end tank meets the core. In each failure the leak started very small and grew pretty rapidly in roughly the same location. The natural conclusion in my case at least is that there is some amount of stress or vibration inducements near the lower radiator spigot that is causing the problems. The lower radiator hose is very short, approximately 8-9 inches in total length and mostly just a 90 degree bend, and I have come to believe that this close proximity may be the problem. The engine has hydraulic mounts and it moves or torques over a pretty fair amount (relatively) every time the throttle is moved. Because the hose is so short and relatively stiff because of its length and the pressure it contains, there may be enough stress being applied to the lower corner of the radiator to cause the welds to fatigue and fail. I have decided to change the way the hose is routed between the engine and radiator by making it longer and giving it enough length that it can absorb more of the engine movement/vibration. This involves routing it toward the side of the car from the water pump and then reversing the direction back to the short 90 degree bend where it attaches to the radiator. It should be long enough to absorb the engine movement and vibration after doing so. I will get back to you if it seems to work. Most of the radiators have failed within about 6mos of primarily highway use which tells me this isn't a random flexing issue but one more specially located or isolated to one area. I am also going to try to change the way the top radiator mount attaches to allow more flexing to occur. Will get back to you down the road. Thanks for the great posts here.
 

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Reddog,

You are not alone, I am on my fourth radiator in 30k.
One of the four was a dual pass with a different hose mounting location. It had several more inches of hose. I have had leaks on both sides.
Motech has been great about replacing them under warranty. The radiator manufacturer sends an 18 or 20 lb. cap with them, I've been thinking maybe it is building to much pressure.
I have gotten really quick at swapping them out.
 

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C&R has a great rep. Im still up in the air between them and Ron Davis.
C&R is the way to GO, we have used it seems like every Radiator manufacture with no luck. C&R seems to over build their radiators. Just my 2 cents! They are very expensive.
 

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Reddog,

You are not alone, I am on my fourth radiator in 30k.
One of the four was a dual pass with a different hose mounting location. It had several more inches of hose. I have had leaks on both sides.
Motech has been great about replacing them under warranty. The radiator manufacturer sends an 18 or 20 lb. cap with them, I've been thinking maybe it is building to much pressure.
I have gotten really quick at swapping them out.
I'm getting tired of swapping the radiators out. Bothers me that high quality and expensive radiators are being destroyed so easily. Just installed the latest 52mm HD from RPM Extreme. Very nice and well made unit. I agree with everything Jon @rpm said on the issue in this thread. The flexing is mostly being exerted diagonally (I believe) on the radiator as opposed to front and rear but it is flexing both ways for sure. Tried to rig up something to measure the deflection but got very crude results but the frame and body are flexing for sure. I didn't cut the alignment pins off the bottom pad mounts this time but did take a larger drill and reamed the holes out so the pins could move sideways some. Then I carefully ground the upper rubber mounts so that when the bolt is tightened up the radiator can move some from side to side if it wants too. Now I am fabricating two new upper connections that will hold the radiator in position but allow it to "rack" which is what is happening when the frame twists. Seems like diagonal bracing on the radiators would help some but not sure. Basically, the new upper mounts will be similar to the stock but there will be a much larger hole thru the middle of the rubber grommet and I'm going to drill out the welded-in nut in the cross member and run a longer bolt thru the cross member and install an a/c nut on the backside. The two bolts will be left slightly loose. That way, if the radiator wants to move sideways the bolts can freely move within the larger holes in the rubber grommets and not transfer the stress to the radiator, or at least reduce it significantly. Will let you know if it works as designed. The ideal solution would be to have the radiator entirely free floating in its mounts but that may not be feasible. Good luck to all and keep us posted on what works for you all.
 

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Something we use quite a bit in my line of work are ShockMount cases for the really expensive gear. Anybody hauling delicate gear via air and/or land will probably know what I'm talking about....

---> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=skb+ata+flight+case+shockmount&t=ffab&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images&iai=https://www.equipmentcases.com/wp-content/uploads/images/products/p-4106-20-Deep-8U-ShockRack-Rolling_open_ends.jpg

---> https://www.skbcases.com/industrial/products/prod-detail.php?d=f9&id=701&s=s

The idea would be to take the theory behind these types of flight cases and use it to rig up a "floating C frame" within another larger C frame. The inner floating frame channel holds the radiator which is slid in place and further held in place on top by retainers. It is spring/elastomer shock mounted to the outer frame.

Don't worry, I have a patent pending...
 

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They don’t have solid welded end tanks
So it seems like the solid end tanks (which were supposed to be an upgrade in durability over stock) tend to fail at delivering that one big selling point.

Maybe someone should make a stock-like radiator (plastic tanks) but with additional cooling capacity. :dunno:
 
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