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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,

Have a CSF all aluminum 2 row radiation to keep my L83 Chevy cool. That it does extremely well! However, I am dealing with a constant leak, and this is my second replacement. Seems they fail within 6 -8 months.
I know Mishimoto has the same exact failure at about the same rate, and I will tell you mine failed with the 3.8 as well, as I replaced the leaking stock with the upgrade, anticipating the engine swap. It leaked before the V8 ever made it in......
Specifically where the fins meet the tank sides.
I am thinking about adding some Bars Leak stop product, but bypassing the heater core, to keep it from getting clogged.

What is you alls take?

I’m about to order a mid range plastic tank stock radiator so see if it can cool as well as the 2 row. Im super suspicious of the bar product......
 

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Dont put any snake oil into that radiator. That stuff is for all out emergency purposes only unless you just enjoy dealing with collateral issues.

As you said they ALL have issues. It does seem as though the radiators from rpm extreme or motech have the least failures though. But even those have had a few issues that I believe have been corrected.
 
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We have seen some leaks develop in our radiators as well. Pretty much exactly as described in the OP.

From the data gathered we have determined the radiator is twisting and flexing and over time this will crack the welds.

The lower part of the radiator is sitting in rubber pads and is free to move around. The upper mounts however are mounted to the core support and don't offer much flex if any. As the core support moves and flexes (it does a lot BTW) all that force is applied to the radiator and over time will fail.

We have been thru several redesigns on our radiators and have made them as strong as possible but with enough flexing the thin aluminum tube will give up.

Our solution is to redesign the JK upper radiator mount and come up with something that will hold the radiator into position but also allow the core support to flex and not transmit the force into the radiator.

In the mean time you can remove the metal insert inside of the stock JK rubber isolator and replace the bolt with a shouldered bolt that will tighten down secure but will bottom out before pulling the rubber tight.




Basically you want the radiator held in place but not locked to the core support.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thank you RPM Extreme for the reply. I figured that’s what was going on, as Mishimoto also pointed at the Jeep flexing, as there are so many failures a cross our JK.

Thanks for the info on the bolt, I will remove the metal sleeve and hope this helps, with the new replacement.
 

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Thank you RPM Extreme for the reply. I figured that’s what was going on, as Mishimoto also pointed at the Jeep flexing, as there are so many failures a cross our JK.

Thanks for the info on the bolt, I will remove the metal sleeve and hope this helps, with the new replacement.
You're welcome too.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Update!

Crushed two bar’s tablets into cool radiator opening. It quit leaking within 30 minutes driving. Just came back from a 700 mile ski trip, up our tallest mound in NC, and can’t say it has affected my heater core at all. Had great heat and engine stayed at 215 and below as I was going up some steep grades, enjoying the V8.
But again, I used only two of the 8 tablets, and did not use any of the metal flake liquid sealant. I think those are bad news for motors and heater cores.
 

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I agree with RPM about the flex and all that. But I also agree that most companies are not making their own radiator and basically getting components from China and slapping their names on them as their own. Super thin metal and iffy quality overall. Check out these people. Spent some time speaking with one their designers. Great people. If I have to but andother radiator, I am going with these.
https://www.crracing.com

In the mean time in the interest of covering all bases (in addition to flex) I grounded my radiator and got a cap with a sacrificial anode. We will see.
 

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I agree with RPM about the flex and all that. But I also agree that most companies are not making their own radiator and basically getting components from China and slapping their names on them as their own. Super thin metal and iffy quality overall. Check out these people. Spent some time speaking with one their designers. Great people. If I have to but andother radiator, I am going with these.
https://www.crracing.com

In the mean time in the interest of covering all bases (in addition to flex) I grounded my radiator and got a cap with a sacrificial anode. We will see.
C&R has a great rep. Im still up in the air between them and Ron Davis.
 

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I'm on my third CSF and it's leaking too. MoTech installed the first one when they did my swap and warrantied two replacements. I'm sure if I contacted Robbie, he would work with me. However, if I change my radiator again, I'm just going to bite the bullet and get the C&R. For now, I'm just going to deal with my small leak. It's hard for me to part with the cash for the C&R--it's pricey!
 

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I'm on my second csf and it is also leaking where the fins meet the end tanks. After talking to Robbie, he said to install a 16psi cap and put 2 tabs in the radiator as well. I did that and it slowed the leak down but it is still there. I hate that that is the only fluid leak that my jeep has... I think I will remove the metal spacers from the rubber bushings as well and see if that helps at all. I only have 6k miles on the jeep since my swap and really want to get this figured out.
 

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I have been fighting the very same problem for 2years with my 6.0 LS. Robbie has replaced 3 radiators for me because of that very problem. Guess I will try the 2tabs and see what happens this time.
 

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Aluminum radiators can be hard to seal in a JK. Over the last decade we have used Griffin, CSF, CBR, Northen and others.

Weakest point is where the tube meets the header. That joint is brazed and susceptible to flexing as noted. CBR has taken a new approach and is using extruded tubes to help minimize the problem but we have only installed one so far.

Another misunderstood issue is electrolysis. If a charge is built up in the cooling system it can cause erosion of the metals. This charge seems to affect the weak tube/header joint by making the braze porous. The result is your radiator sweats more than leaks and drips out the bottom but it is difficult to see where the leak is coming from. Measure the charge in your coolant, with the engine running and everything on you want to see less than 1V. We have seen 3+ volts which accelerates leaks and causes corrosion. Bad grounds, starter, alternator... can cause electrolysis.

We now strap our radiators and weld the corners and seams to help with the flex. This is still no guarantee though.

Run a good quality cap like a Stant. Run about 16 psi, 18-20 psi caps too much pressure on the system. Cheap caps do not hold the rated pressure, they are usually low or high.

Griffin not only vacumn brazes but epoxies the headers. Again this is no guarantee but does seen to help.

Using a conditioning tablet like GM or Bardahl's sell can help coat the joints that are susceptible to flexing and electrolysis by coating them. My conversation with Fluidyne a while back indicated Chrysler was aware of the electrolysis issue in JK's and were addressing it in the JL.

It's somewhat hit or miss, I can warranty 3 radiators to one customer over 5 years then have another customer with a radiator from the same batch go 5 years without leaking a drop.
 

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I am on my third radiator in just over 2 years. Last radiator has been in for over a year and it did have a very slight seep so I put in some of the GM radiator tablets and I have not seen any leaks as of now. Only thing I have is the constant smell of antifreeze after it gets to operating temp with no visible leaks and I think the fluid moves into the overflow to easily. I have been running a radiator cap from O'Reillys (Murray)warrantied once and have just switched to an AC/Delco cap. I can say it did fit tighter, even though they looked to be the same height. We will see if that takes care of the smell and fluid transfer.

In regards to checking the voltage of the coolant, electrolysis. Are you just literally inserting the positive probe into the coolant and grounding the negative probe?
 

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I am on my third radiator in just over 2 years. Last radiator has been in for over a year and it did have a very slight seep so I put in some of the GM radiator tablets and I have not seen any leaks as of now. Only thing I have is the constant smell of antifreeze after it gets to operating temp with no visible leaks and I think the fluid moves into the overflow to easily. I have been running a radiator cap from O'Reillys (Murray)warrantied once and have just switched to an AC/Delco cap. I can say it did fit tighter, even though they looked to be the same height. We will see if that takes care of the smell and fluid transfer.

In regards to checking the voltage of the coolant, electrolysis. Are you just literally inserting the positive probe into the coolant and grounding the negative probe?
Yes you are correct , just the tip of the probe in the coolant , but move the ground from the body ground to the negative post to see if there is a difference , this will alert you to weak grounds .
Robbie @MoTech is correct , there are a lot of things that can cause this condition , starter , alternator , weak or broken grounds ect.
But once you solve this change the coolant , it's toast . When it is exposed to more than one Mv it will become corrosive .

@JohnPShoe[/MENTION] knows a shit ton about many of these variables in the JK systems , way more than I do for certain , maybe he will chime in .
 

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I am on my third radiator in just over 2 years. Last radiator has been in for over a year and it did have a very slight seep so I put in some of the GM radiator tablets and I have not seen any leaks as of now. Only thing I have is the constant smell of antifreeze after it gets to operating temp with no visible leaks and I think the fluid moves into the overflow to easily. I have been running a radiator cap from O'Reillys (Murray)warrantied once and have just switched to an AC/Delco cap. I can say it did fit tighter, even though they looked to be the same height. We will see if that takes care of the smell and fluid transfer.

In regards to checking the voltage of the coolant, electrolysis. Are you just literally inserting the positive probe into the coolant and grounding the negative probe?
This is common when running cheap caps - Duralast, Murray.... Running tablets is a good start. Use a Stant or Delco 16psi cap. Cheap radiator caps do not hold rated pressure and if they do not for long.

If the cap is weak coolant will push into the coolant bottle and you will smell the overflow. When the level gets too low you may suck in air when the system cools; then an air bubble can form and you overheat.

The radiator cap is cheap but critical so get a good one.

If you have excessive voltage in the coolant you will continue to leak. Check grounds at the battery, chassis, body, engine, transmission... Run all the accessories when checking to load the system. You should have redundant grounds on engine performance and a good block ground.

Grounding the radiator or adding sacrificial annodes can help but they are addressing symptoms not the cause.
 

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Thanks for the replies. I just want to check the voltage and see, if present I want to get ahead of it before it does actual damage. We will see now if the AC/Delco cap makes the difference on the smell.
 

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Well. Figured I update to my last post about the antifreeze smell I was having and hoping the radiator cap would cure the problem. That is a BIG Negatory! I have radiator leakage, so chalk me up on the list. This was a replacement for the leaking original and now this one is leaking. Anybody coming up with a fix? Wonder if I can get this one replaced under warranty. Time for some phone calls:frown2:
 

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We just got our oem radiator replaced. 2012 JK with 96k miles but thankfully we have a 100k warranty otherwise the stealership said it would have been ~$1295 for parts/labor.

May have to do the shoulder bolt swap for the new one...




.
 

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We just got our oem radiator replaced. 2012 JK with 96k miles but thankfully we have a 100k warranty otherwise the stealership said it would have been ~$1295 for parts/labor.

May have to do the shoulder bolt swap for the new one...




.
Is that one gold plated?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
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