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that will be :koolaid2: because it sure seems this
is gonna be implemented & read by a lot of us
going forward so any further pix'll make an already valuable,
Modified thread all-the-more awesome.
:smokin:


 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
The difference between upper mounting points.
Shock specs are measured from Center to Center of the eyelets on a shock with eyelets on both ends.
The measurments on an Eye/stem shock is taken from the center of the eyelet to the end of the chrome shaft (not between the 2 flat bushings).
Auto part

Tire Automotive tire Auto part Automotive wheel system Rim


The extended length comparison of the old shocks vs new shocks was pretty significant. The old stem shocks were around 28" and the new shocks are around 34".
Water Pipe Gas
Water Pipe Gas

 

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Discussion Starter · #24 · (Edited)
By reducing the amount of bump stop needed and raising the upper shock mount, you are able to better keep your suspension travel sprung and at full droop the axle is not pulled under the Jeep like it would be with the same length shock in the stock mount. The available sprung travel is detirmined by the coil springs solid height and free length. 2dr JKs are at a disadvantage compared to 4dr JKUs because the coils have a shorter spring length until you get into really tall lifts. When I first started looking at mild lift coils for my JK, alot of the 2"-2.5" lift coils had a free length comparable to some of the stock JKU coils.
With the exception of Metalcloak's 6 pack shocks, a shock with a long stroke has to have a fairly long collapsed length. To fit the long collapsed length shock without raising the upper mount or lowering the lower mount, you have to extend your bump stops. Bump stops limit/reduce suspension travel to prevent shocks from bottoming out and to increase tire clearance. If you rely solely on bump stops to give you the clearance needed for a shock with a long stroke, you end up trading sprung travel for un-sprung travel (after the coil spring reaches its free length and unseats from the coil bucket). Not a good trade in my opinion.



The 1.25" Body Lift made a big difference in increasing sprung suspension travel. It reduced the amount of bump stop needed for tire clearance by 1.25" (front and rear). The Body Lift also allowed the upper shock mount to be moved up an additional 1.25" which allows for a longer collapsed length shock that has a longer stroke. Even if you only credit the body lift for allowing for 2" of additional sprung travel, That's almost a 25% increase over stock and almost 15% of a 14" stroke shock. 2" does not account for the additional stroke in the longer collapsed length shock which also contributes to increased travel.

I wanted to limit the amount of bump stop needed for tire clearance to 2"-2.5" at most. The front has around a 2.25"-2.5" bump stop, the rear has 2" bump stops and I'm running a 38.5x13.50x17 Super Swamper Bogger (had to do a little trimming). The 37" Cooper STT Pros fit about as perfect as it gets though.
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These show how the Ford mount was cut/notched to fit up against the coil bucket. It's a pretty easy cut to make and can be cut to adjust the angle and depth of the mount.

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Clearance looks good sitting level but at full stuff/droop/lock it looks like the tire is going to be rubbing hard in there. You are on the right track about adjusting shock mounts and clearancing for up travel rather than just adding long travel shocks and bump stops. better balance and stability. Another benefit is better drive line angles since your overall droop is less than what a factory jeep has.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 · (Edited)
Clearance looks good sitting level but at full stuff/droop/lock it looks like the tire is going to be rubbing hard in there. You are on the right track about adjusting shock mounts and clearancing for up travel rather than just adding long travel shocks and bump stops. better balance and stability. Another benefit is better drive line angles since your overall droop is less than what a factory jeep has.
Clearance is fine in the front now, but I expect to have to trim a little higher/more on the rear in the back of the opening.



This is within 1" of full bump on the compressed side with room to spare. It will cantilever some as the other side continues to droop, but not enough to cause major contact. I already cut the bumper and there is still plenty of room above the tire and between the tire and grill. For a 13.50" wide tire, they are pretty narrow. The tread is 1" narrower than the 37x13.00" Bogger and the cross section is closer to 12" than 13.50". The narrow tread also helps alot with clearance, It was a big reason I chose this size. I had wanted to run a 38x11, but that size is only available for a 16" wheel (won't work with a big rotor).





How do you figure the overall droop is less than what a factory Jeep has? That makes absolutely no sense. Factory shocks have around an 8.5"-9" stroke (don't remember exactly) and are around 22" or 23" extended. The shock that is currently on the front has a 14" stroke with a collapsed length of around 19.5" and an extended length of 34" (The exact specs are mentioned earlier). The stock height measurements I took had the stock shocks sitting with about 3.5" of compression and around 5" of droop. The current shocks have right around 4" compression and 10"-10.5" of droop. I have 3.5" coils waiting to go on that will get me closer to 5" of compression and 9"-9.5" of droop. The factory brake lines were replaced because they were too short and at full droop the 2.5" Metalcloak dual rate coils are at their free length. Thats more droop than a factory Jeep.
 

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Definitely make sure you check clearances with the opposite tire fully drooped and the side your working on at full stuff, and lock to lock on steering. On my rig it's about another 1" up travel compared to the axle being fairly level or the opposite side up. Hope that makes since. In other words, with the pic you have here you have 1" of shaft showing. I assume that is with the passenger side being raised. If you droop the passenger side and stuff the driver's side that tire will probably be about another 2" higher than what it shows in that picture. I just got done doing mine. It's a lot of work but well worth it compared to learning what rubs the hard way on the trail.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Definitely make sure you check clearances with the opposite tire fully drooped and the side your working on at full stuff, and lock to lock on steering. On my rig it's about another 1" up travel compared to the axle being fairly level or the opposite side up. Hope that makes since. In other words, with the pic you have here you have 1" of shaft showing. I assume that is with the passenger side being raised. If you droop the passenger side and stuff the driver's side that tire will probably be about another 2" higher than what it shows in that picture. I just got done doing mine. It's a lot of work but well worth it compared to learning what rubs the hard way on the trail.

The Passenger side rear tire is on top of my 23' Deckover trailer to compress the driver side front. Cantilever compression caused by droop is in consideration. There is more room in there than the picture makes out to be. There were alot of measurements taken and clearances checked with the 37s on before I got the 38.5s.

The labeled size of the 38.5x13.50s is very misleading. A 38.5x12.00 would be more accurate. The narrow profile of the tire helps ALOT with the clearance. With a typical 38x14.50 or 15.50 there would be a serious lack of clearance in places. I wanted a tall skinny tire just for clearance reasons. I'll run out and get some pictures of the tire width to give a better visual of how narrow they are.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Width comparison between a 37x12.50R17 STT Pro and a 38.5x13.50x17 Bogger.

Tire Synthetic rubber Automotive tire Tread Auto part


The widest part of the tread on the 13.50 Bogger is about a 1/2" narrower than the tread on a 12.50 STT Pro. The 12.50 and 13.50 size represents the cross section width not the tread width but even the cross section of 13.50 appears to be slightly narrower than the 12.50 (looks to be about 1/2" also but would need a couple more hands and straight edges to get an accurate CS measurement).
Tire Automotive tire Auto part Tread Automotive wheel system

Tire Automotive tire Tread Automotive wheel system Auto part


The 13.50 tread is 10.25" wide and the 12.50 is 10.75" wide. A 1/2" really isn't much of a difference between the 2 but the 13.50 label would typically make you expect the 13.50 to be wider than a 12.50. I looked at the specs before I got them and expected them to be narrower than their label.

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They looked VERY narrow before they were mounted.

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Why the fuck can't they just use that type of mount from the factory. All the additional travel goodness is great, but it'd be worth doing just to avoid dealing with the bullshit it takes to replace front shocks.

Nice work!
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Why the fuck can't they just use that type of mount from the factory. All the additional travel goodness is great, but it'd be worth doing just to avoid dealing with the bullshit it takes to replace front shocks.

Nice work!
Thanks.

I agree! I started thinking about these mounts the very first time I changed the front shocks (about 1k miles on it). That first shock change had me pissed off. I put a set of 18/60 JKU coils with a set of Bilstien 5100s before I put the body lift on. The stem nut was a pain in the ass with very little room. I did a little trimming to the inner fender then to make it a little easier. The 5100s were even worse putting the nut back on. That's also when I thought about how much easier it would be with a 1.25" BL (which came when I went to 35s).

Not only is the stem a bitch with the lack of space above it, the stem wastes height that can be used for additional shock length. There is actually a little more room on one side than the other. I think it's the pass. side that limits the height first because of the battery tray that extends dam near the entire length of the engine bay (goes under the fuse box and filter box). Id have to look to be certain. If it wasn't for that, I think you could get the mount up an additional 1"+-. An aftermarket dual battery tray may give you a little more height to work with.

I did trim a little more of the inner fender out when I swapped the Ford shock mounts into the JK. It didn't take much trimming though and there is plenty of room to put the bolt through to moun the shock.

I think there are alot more choices length wise in shocks with eyelets on both ends. I looked at alot of shock specs before I swapped the mount and it seemed like there was a better variety in the eyelet shocks. The white body Pro Comp shocks were bought as more of a throw away than a permanent shock. I didn't want to spend alot on shocks until the mounts and bump stop heights were finished. After I get the rear done, I'll have some solid measurements to go off of for the next set of shocks. I don't hate the Procomps though. They are better than the stock shocks and fit well in the space I have to work with.
 

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Resurrecting this thread as I start planning the same project. @slade how has this setup worked for you the last few years? Any regrets? Improvements?

Current setup: 2"/1" Synergy springs, Rancho 9000xl shocks (30/31s), Currie arms, & 37x12.50x17 Nitto Trail Grapps on stock HR wheels w/ 1.5" spacers

End goal = 37s, 2.5-3"ride height, 12" travel front / 11" rear with a near 50/50 travel split (ideally 5up/7down) - via the following process:
  • swap in 3" Synergy front coils / add 1" rear spacer (Synergy 1" are springs slightly longer than 2")
  • swap Tera bumps for hockey puck/adjustable bumps
  • install Synergy rear-upper & lower shock mount kit
  • install Nemesis front-lower shock movers
---- cycle suspension - finalize shock lengths
  • order Fox remote resis from Accutune
  • cut stock shock towers and weld in Ford shock towers; gusset where possible
  • install new shocks / cycle / bump accordingly
 

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Why not just throw some coil overs on up front with some proper towers? You are not talking a lot more money and it will give you better tuneablity. Barnes 4wd towers are very affordable and you will clean up the front.https://www.barnes4wd.com/Frenched-Shock-Tower-Pair_p_305.html
 

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I don't know if any one else is even on the forum anymore.
I figured - forums have gotten really quiet the last few years with Facebook and the like taking over.

Why not just throw some coil overs on up front with some proper towers? You are not talking a lot more money and it will give you better tuneablity. Barnes 4wd towers are very affordable and you will clean up the front.https://www.barnes4wd.com/Frenched-Shock-Tower-Pair_p_305.html
I've received this suggestion before and hear your point, but for me the cost savings seems pretty significant. And I'm on a pretty tight budget as I still need hydro and a regear pretty soon. Maybe I'm not looking at proper CO deals/prices, but the Fox shocks described above will run me about $1250 shipped (roughly $1500 in total for all 4 corners w/ mounts included). It looks like just a front CO setup would cost about that (most single COs running about $600/each). If I was pushing for closer to 14" I feel like COs would make more sense.
 

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it depends on the coil over you choose, almost nobody need resivour shocks with dsc on a JK, its a total waste of money but people like the bling, the ride qulity between the lowest settings and the highest setting are barely noticeable. Having a shock that can have the valving adjusted and the abilty to run more customized coil rates with a coil over will give you a better ride than any seperate coil/shock combo. Its not a buy and install set up though and you will have to do some tuning to get the ideal set up for your jeep. You can also find used coil overs in the $500-600 range per pair. High end coil overs are a lifetime shock and you can buy every part for them, most are pretty easy to service and if paying someone to do it a complete rebuild with new oil and seals runs about $100 per shock. Its tough to get coil overs right now as most are many months out. There are other top quality shocks out there besides king and fox as well that are not quite as expensive.
 
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