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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
In July 2008 COP4x4 offered to sponsor the Wheelers for the Wounded program by painting my AEV Heat Reduction Hood. I ordered the hood directly from AEV and had it shipped to them in Arizona (yes, I have the shipping invoice proving this).

Months later, prior to the hood being painted, I had a disagreement with JK-Forum (on which COP4x4 advertises) and was banned. I was never contacted by JK-Forum and told why I was banned, but another member told me it was because I promoted the WFTW program without obtaining permission to do so. Fine...whatever.

Subsequently, COP4x4 said they were having second thoughts about sponsoring the WFTW program and wanted to think about it. I told them that I respected their decision and continued sending them updates about the program (while they retained possession of the AEV hood).

After months and months passed without COP4x4 telling me if they were going to sponsor me or not, I told them it was obvious to me they chose not to do so and asked for the hood back...this was still in 2008.

I called them a few times and never received an answer. I emailed them and still did not receive a reply. It was only after I let this incident be known to others in the off-road community (on a different forum), and members there contacted COP4x4, that I got a reply from them (and an angry one at that).

I've yet to receive the hood. I've been told many times that it would be shipped soon...only to continue to wait.

Camp Crocker of COP4x4 has told me that he does not have a box to ship the hood in. Why was the hood even taken out of the box if they never painted it? He told me he has ordered a few hoods and when they get there he will use one of the boxes to ship my hood in. Why not have one of the ones he ordered routed to me and he can keep my brand new one he already has?

The WFTW program kicks off in less than four weeks, and if I don't receive the hood soon, then it will do me no good (I need to get it in time to have it painted).

While JK-Forum has bad-mouthed both me and the WFTW program, and I have no doubt COP4x4 will do the same, I feel posting this here is my only outlet since it has become pretty obvious to me that I'm out $612.57.

If I ever receive the hood, I will post so in this thread...but don't hold your breath.
 

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Cant you take that to small claims court? Get a judge to tell them to send you back your Hood. If you have the funds - take on Eddie and his forum legally. Clearly their defamation of you has caused this (per COP 4x4's own admission to you on the phone).

I dunno - **** (mother****er I wish we could cuss) like this pisses me off. Always the little guy getting screwed by the freaking millionaires.

There are some miserable sick bastards in the Jeeping Community. Damn shame. I suppose they are everywhere.

**** em.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
LOL that otta do it.

I'd still pester them in small claims court - just to make them deal w/ the hassle of it all.
I agree with you, but I honestly don't have the time, nor the energy. I'm spending all my free time trying to get the Jeep completed and working on the WFTW program.

My next step is contacting the Better Business Bureau...already have the website link I need. I'm giving them 24 hours before I do so.
 

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Jason-

I posted this on pirate, but I'll post it here also. I'm a Member and if I heard about something like this in my home town I would pay them a visit. I don't know anyone in that town otherwise I would make the call myself.

Disabled American Veterans
DAV Chap 22
1510 N 79th St
Scottsdale, AZ 85257
Ph: 480-947-9301
 

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Discussion Starter #7
COP4x4 has actually done nice things for our service members. He said he auctioned off a Jeep and donated the money to a VA hospital. I don't question his dedication to our service members, but I do question his business practices.
 

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COP4x4 has actually done nice things for our service members. He said he auctioned off a Jeep and donated the money to a VA hospital. I don't question his dedication to our service members, but I do question his business practices.

He's being selective, and shouldn't. It's starting to sound like the other stuff donated was for his gain.
 

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WOW Jason.. just wow...

I would say "Unbelievable!" but I would be lying. :shaking:

This definitely sounds like it should be brought into the wonderful world of Pirate4x4.

I had alot respect for COP4x4, but if this is true, that respect will evaporate quickly.
 

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I'll give my .02 cents even if ya didnt ask for it. As a former deputy sheriff i can tell you the best and fastest way to get somebody's attention is to file a police report. call the city police/sheriff where the hood is located and ask them what they would prefer, a local (your local) police report that is turned over to them by your agency or if they will take the report themselves.

I would also make contact with the local VA chapter where the hood is located, nothing gets people more motivated than having a bunch of pissed of vets on Harleys show up at your door (i've seen them close business down completely) and ask them to step in and help, this is for their brotherhood.

We worked with them on the "run to the wall" and the DAV carry a lot of power.

i would also call the local BBB and the district attorney and ask for their help. I would be willing to bet that between these suggestions you'll have a hood in a few days.

Good luck

Andy
 

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Discussion Starter #12
This is the email I just sent William "Camp" Crocker of COP4x4...

Mr. Crocker,

It is quite obvious to me and others that you have no interest in returning my hood. You/your company are completely in the wrong here.

1. You took the hood I sent you out of the box it was shipped in, yet never painted it.
2. You have kept the hood even though I have asked you to return it via phone, email, and your website message system.
3. Your only explanation of why I do not have the hood in my possession is that you do not have a box to ship it in. Do you expect me to believe Arizona is box-less, and has been for months?

When I initially contacted your company about painting the hood, I was obviously misled in regards to your/your company's reputation. That was poor judgement on my fault, but a mistake I will not make in the future.

As I've told you in the past, this has nothing to do with you not sponsoring the WFTW program, but rather with your business practices. I've commended you before for showing support for our troops. You don't want to support the WFTW program, fine by me, but don't keep something that's not yours.

I have posted information about this on the Pirate 4x4 forum. Others in the off-road community have a right to know how a company such as yours conducts itself. This email to you will be posted there, as will any future emails you send to me. If you want to sign up on that forum and give your version of the story (you know...the whole, I don't have a box to ship the hood in and haven't had one for months), I welcome you to do so.

I no longer wish to continue this game you're playing. You have been prolonging this so that I won't have the hood in the time I need to have it painted prior to the start of the WFTW program (if ever).

If I do not have the hood or the $612.57 (cost of hood plus shipping) in my possession by March 20, 2009, I will be contacting the Better Business Bureau and seeking legal council. I will also continue to spread the word about this incident to those in the off-road community via every media outlet I possibly can. This is the final email you will receive from me personally. The next communication will be from a lawyer if I do not have the hood by the above date.

If you do what you should have done a long time ago and either refund my money or ship me the hood, I will update the thread on Pirate 4x4 letting those interested know you did so.

Jason Havlik

PayPal for refund: [email protected]
Shipping address for hood: Overbuilt Customs, 11721-3 Phillips Highway, Jacksonville, Florida 32256, (904) 993-5670
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for the insight Andy. You're right about contacting the BBB and the DAV. The amount of people and organizations I'll be contacting about this if I do not have the hood or the money for the hood by March 20th will be astounding, trust me on that.

As for the police report, it's my understanding that since I had the hood shipped to them, it's not theft, and therefore not a criminal matter. Not 100% sure about that, but I will be asking a few friends who are deputies to double-check (I'm a former deputy sheriff as well).

If it's not a criminal matter, I think it would fall into the civil court system. That will be explored if this isn't resolved by the date I gave COP4x4 to return the money or the hood.

Too bad it came to this, but with the start of the WFTW program only a few weeks away, I was left with no choice. The fact that they've had my hood for approximately 9 months and I'm only just now bringing that to the attention of Pirate 4x4 is a testament to the restraint I've shown.
 

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Jason,

because the hood has not returned upon demand by the rightful/legal owner it is in fact theft. I would start he ball rolling on a police/incident report so you can at least begin the pencil f*cking.

Andy
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Jason,

because the hood has not returned upon demand by the rightful/legal owner it is in fact theft. I would start he ball rolling on a police/incident report so you can at least begin the pencil f*cking.

Andy
Today is my Dad's birthday. It's VERY rare that I'm in Jacksonville on this day (first time in probably 7 or 8 years) so I'm going to be hanging out with him today. While over at my parent's house I'll print out all the emails I have between COP4x4 and me...as well as the shipping invoice thing.

Although I'll give them until March 20th before contacting a lawyer, tomorrow I will contact the local sheriff's office to see if this is indeed a crime and if so I will file a report. My next call after that will be to the Better Business Bureau.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
BTW...others have said he probably used my hood on one of the Jeeps he builds. If it was put onto that "Orange Crush" does that mean I own part of that vehicle? Should I call up the Middle East (think that's where it ended up) and see if I can have it on a timeshare basis?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Here is the email I just got from COP4x4, word for word...


Dear Jason, your shipping address had no zip code, please referance the email at the
bottom, your hood left yesterday, and I appolige for the delay, I will provide a
tracking number later today. As faw as your threats, dude, you got the hood for
free, so filing a claim with the BBB kinda seems funny to me, a refund sounds even
funnier, and a lawyer sueing for a product you talked AEV into sending you for free
is, well, but do what you have to do. I needed a hood box to ship it in, not a
regular box, and as I stated last month when you requested the hood, it was yours to
pick up anytime you wanted, as you have has the address where the hood has been for
some time. You can post anything you want anytime you want, but as you and I both
know, the hood was sent to you for free, and the only reason you did not get it
earlier was that you would have had to pay the shipping from Arizona to Florida. I
believe that you also have mislead people about your jeep that being built by
others, and my hope is that some disabled vets will benifit from your project. As
far as my company is concerned, I dont need you or your friends to explain to me
what patritisim is, I am very confortable with what we have done for our disabled
vets over the last 2 years. We donated a Hemi Jeep to the Loma Linda Disabled Vet
Hospital via the Pismo Beach Auto Classic auction, and all $63k went directly to the
hospital, as opposed to giving rides to vets in a jeep biult by companies under the
veai of sponsership. Glad to be done with you and your charity, if it really is one.
Camp Crocker
________________________________________________

Let's break this down...

1. I have NUMEROUS emails which were sent back and forth between me and Crocker in which the shipping address for the hood is on there. I can supply these to whoever wants them. So him saying that the shipping address didn't have a zip code is a lie unless he has selective sight.

2. I don't know where he gets the idea that I got the hood from AEV for free. If anyone likes, I can disprove his claim by showing a copy of the billing statement from AEV in which they charged me for the hood.

3. I like how he says I was free to pick up the hood anytime I wanted. Yeah, because I can just drop everything and go to Arizona to pick up a hood I had shipped to them when they told me they would paint it.

4. How have a misled people about my Jeep? Of course it was built by others...I was in Iraq the the majority of the time I've owned the thing. Do I have sponsors who have helped with the build of the Jeep, yes...it's right there on the sponsorship page of the WFTW website...how was that hidden from people? These are companies who have seen the good in what this program is doing and wanted to get behind it. Let's not forget that I paid roughly $30K for the Jeep, $13K for the axles, $3.5K for the hard top, $600 each for the wheels (x 7 of them), etc. I'd challenge anyone who thinks I got this Jeep for free or even close to it. This Jeep has been built up so tough because it will be wheeled hard for over half a year straight. I can't afford to have it break down and miss a scheduled event. I'm not rich and can't trailer the thing everywhere so I have to ensure it will hold up.

5. I knew he'd throw out the money thing yet again (he did that last time too). Yes, he donated money to a military organization (as I already pointed out). Could I have done that too? Yes. However, I don't think everything is solved via money. TIME is more valuable than money. I didn't want to just throw money at someone and say "thanks, I feel good because I helped you now." I want to get face to face with these deserving men and women, thank them in person, and spend a weekend showing them a good time. If others feel this is inadequate, then this is a free country and they are entitled to their opinion.

6. Real classy how he questions if the WFTW program is legit when he knows good and well that it is. He's doing the same thing the guy at JK-Forum did...attack me through the validity of the WFTW program. The WFTW is a project of U.S. Veterans Matter, a non-profit organization. If you want proof, go to this link http://www.usveteransmatter.com/about_articlesOfIncorp.html and click the view PDF file thing.

At any rate, it looks like I may FINALLY get the hood I paid over $600 for in July 2008.

Thank you for those who've stood by the WFTW program. I hope you all will see that this program is worthy of our time.
 
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