So if the symptom was the same as misaligned draglink and trackbar, how would you describe it?
Bumpsteer is driving me crazy
Hi,
Two years ago I added to my JK;
- Dynatrac axles (front with extra caster angle)
- Teraflex 4" lift (shortarm) with elka shocks
- 37" BFgoodrich Tires on 17" Mickey thompson wheels
I experienced bumpsteer and death wobble since then, so I;
- Had everything aligned (twice)
- searched the internet for the cause (planman's youtube movies etc.)
- added a high steer kit
- raised my trackbar
- played with different air settings in the tires
- changed the steering stabilizer
- Gave the wheels more toe out
My conclusion;
- Lowering the air in my tires helps, but with the 3.8 it makes the Jeep to slow.
- I think the angle (see pic) of my trackbar and draglink is correct
- As far as I know there is no play at the bushings or anything else
- the steering stabilizers makes sure death wobble doesn't occur, but it's still there. It only works as a bandage.
- The toe out on the wheels made the tires wear out excessivly
I know bumpsteer and death wobble are two seperate things, but I experience both in my JK.
Who can help me out fixing this, because there is no decent shop over here which can cure my problem.
I'm actually debating on putting a full hydro kit on my JK if I can't solve my problem.
Please help.
Two years ago I added to my JK;
- Dynatrac axles (front with extra caster angle)
- Teraflex 4" lift (shortarm) with elka shocks
- 37" BFgoodrich Tires on 17" Mickey thompson wheels
I experienced bumpsteer and death wobble since then, so I;
- Had everything aligned (twice)
- searched the internet for the cause (planman's youtube movies etc.)
- added a high steer kit
- raised my trackbar
- played with different air settings in the tires
- changed the steering stabilizer
- Gave the wheels more toe out
My conclusion;
- Lowering the air in my tires helps, but with the 3.8 it makes the Jeep to slow.
- I think the angle (see pic) of my trackbar and draglink is correct
- As far as I know there is no play at the bushings or anything else
- the steering stabilizers makes sure death wobble doesn't occur, but it's still there. It only works as a bandage.
- The toe out on the wheels made the tires wear out excessivly
I know bumpsteer and death wobble are two seperate things, but I experience both in my JK.
Who can help me out fixing this, because there is no decent shop over here which can cure my problem.
I'm actually debating on putting a full hydro kit on my JK if I can't solve my problem.
Please help.
21 - 40 of 66 Posts
Yes, it moves. It jumps to te left and right when I hit a puthole. When the Jeep hits a bump with both wheels simultaneously the steering wheels remains straight.Does your steering wheel actually move ?My light weight 2 door fights the road/ruts but steering wheel is still.
Do you or a friend have a Gopro ?
Mount to the front cross member and see what's going on. http://youtu.be/DGVbULgCP14
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I've already told you how I would describe it. I care about the cause, not the symptoms.....focusing on the symptoms alone can create muddy water and can make finding the root cause pretty difficult. Diagnosing the problem in a methodical, sensible fashion will almost always expose the cause very quickly and with little wasted time.So if the symptom was the same as misaligned draglink and trackbar, how would you describe it?
Determine the cause--are the drag link and track bar mounting points parallel, in the same plane, and very close to the same length or not? If not, it's bump steer. If so, move on and find the cause elsewhere, it's not bump steer. On that note, I've never felt worn out steering components (even terribly worn) give a remotely similar feel to bump steer.
I get paid to do this stuff and that's how I go about it. You can call it whatever you like and go about diagnosing the problems however you like. Judging by the pictures and the OP's posts, I think he's mistaking his problem for being bump steer when that's not the case.
It forces the wheels to drag a little over the road and therefore gives the wheels no chance to shimmy. The tires wear out to fast like this.Why did you toe it out? How much?
That could be true. When I hit a bump or puthole my steeringwheel moves. When both wheels hit it simultenaously the steeringwheel doesn't move. I tought it was bumpsteer. What do you think it is?Judging by the pictures and the OP's posts, I think he's mistaking his problem for being bump steer when that's not the case.
I'm aware of the effects of toe, how much did you adjust it?It forces the wheels to drag a little over the road and therefore gives the wheels no chance to shimmy. The tires wear out to fast like this.
That's just the wheel shimmying and the force being transferred through the steering. The steering stabilizer will try to dampen this force, but it can only do so much.That could be true. When I hit a bump or puthole my steeringwheel moves. When both wheels hit it simultenaously the steeringwheel doesn't move. I tought it was bumpsteer. What do you think it is?
This is pretty normal for a vehicle like this, we don't have rack & pinion steering like cars and SUVs. This is not bump steer.
Drag link and TB look parallel. My question .... All that work. Is that a factory tie rod ?
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Well if someone tells me they have bump steer I'm not going to be arrogant enough to tell them it can only be specifically caused by one thing. I'm going to understand that they are describing what happens when they hit a bump and start the diagnosis from there. If someone tells you when they hit a bump their JK changes lanes, how would you describe it?I've already told you how I would describe it. I care about the cause, not the symptoms.....focusing on the symptoms alone can create muddy water and can make finding the root cause pretty difficult. Diagnosing the problem in a methodical, sensible fashion will almost always expose the cause very quickly and with little wasted time.
Determine the cause--are the drag link and track bar mounting points parallel, in the same plane, and very close to the same length or not? If not, it's bump steer. If so, move on and find the cause elsewhere, it's not bump steer. On that note, I've never felt worn out steering components (even terribly worn) give a remotely similar feel to bump steer.
I get paid to do this stuff and that's how I go about it. You can call it whatever you like and go about diagnosing the problems however you like. Judging by the pictures and the OP's posts, I think he's mistaking his problem for being bump steer when that's not the case.
A full hydro is just going to introduce another set of issues, best to correct these first.Hi,
Two years ago I added to my JK;
- Dynatrac axles (front with extra caster angle)
- Teraflex 4" lift (shortarm) with elka shocks
- 37" BFgoodrich Tires on 17" Mickey thompson wheels
I experienced bumpsteer and death wobble since then, so I;
- Had everything aligned (twice)
- searched the internet for the cause (planman's youtube movies etc.)
- added a high steer kit
- raised my trackbar
- played with different air settings in the tires
- changed the steering stabilizer
- Gave the wheels more toe out
My conclusion;
- Lowering the air in my tires helps, but with the 3.8 it makes the Jeep to slow.
- I think the angle (see pic) of my trackbar and draglink is correct
- As far as I know there is no play at the bushings or anything else
- the steering stabilizers makes sure death wobble doesn't occur, but it's still there. It only works as a bandage.
- The toe out on the wheels made the tires wear out excessivly
I know bumpsteer and death wobble are two seperate things, but I experience both in my JK.
Who can help me out fixing this, because there is no decent shop over here which can cure my problem.
I'm actually debating on putting a full hydro kit on my JK if I can't solve my problem.
Please help.
If you have an angle corrected front housing, raised track bar and drag link flip you shouldn't experince much bump steer and the rig should be very stable. Whose drag link flip / track bar setup did you add? As suggested, are they at the same, or near same angle from the pitman arm to the knuckle, and frame to axle? Are the bushings & TREs OK? Teraflex's approach is a bit differnt, in that they drop the track bar mount at the frame rather than raise at the axle. Not ideal but works fine. (Drag link & track bar are in different planes.) Please advise and we'll see if we can sort this out.
I would call that flighty steering or wandering issue.Well if someone tells me they have bump steer I'm not going to be arrogant enough to tell them it can only be specifically caused by one thing. I'm going to understand that they are describing what happens when they hit a bump and start the diagnosis from there. If someone tells you when they hit a bump their JK changes lanes, how would you describe it?
I had some bump steer but it never kicked me in the next lane. Annoying as hell with the steering wheel jerking left to right.
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You need to go through each of the inspection checks in my write-up thread.
If you have a flipped drag link and the plane of the mounting points for the trackbar and drag link are parallel with a 4" lift, you don't have bumpsteer, but you could have something else.
You will need to check each and every joint, end, and bushing--along with everything else.
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If you have a flipped drag link and the plane of the mounting points for the trackbar and drag link are parallel with a 4" lift, you don't have bumpsteer, but you could have something else.
You will need to check each and every joint, end, and bushing--along with everything else.
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Listen very careful to Planman! His steps are how I went through, found and learned all about the jeep front end!!
It could be a multitude of things. E-diagnosis is pretty tough, especially when it comes to front end issues. I would first perform a dry steer test to check all linkage ends. Then check all control arm bushings by loading them using tire rotating with the Jeep in gear.That could be true. When I hit a bump or puthole my steeringwheel moves. When both wheels hit it simultenaously the steeringwheel doesn't move. I tought it was bumpsteer. What do you think it is?
It has nothing to do with arrogance and if you truly think that, you've got a ways to go when it comes to giving technical advie. There's a method to how I was approaching his issue and getting to eventual answers is intentional. Again, I'll do things my way and you can do things yours.Well if someone tells me they have bump steer I'm not going to be arrogant enough to tell them it can only be specifically caused by one thing. I'm going to understand that they are describing what happens when they hit a bump and start the diagnosis from there. If someone tells you when they hit a bump their JK changes lanes, how would you describe it?
I have the same exact issues that the OP has been talking about in this thread. It is VERY hard to drive the jeep and makes it unpleasant to drive as well.
My stats:
3.5 RK Max Travel
1.5" spacers in front
RK trac bar
RK drag link flipped at knuckle side
I have new ball joints that I am going to install very soon. I did the "ball joint" test and it failed so hopefully that will correct some of the problems.
If that doesn't help then the only thing I know to do is start replacing everything one piece at a time. :bawling:
My stats:
3.5 RK Max Travel
1.5" spacers in front
RK trac bar
RK drag link flipped at knuckle side
I have new ball joints that I am going to install very soon. I did the "ball joint" test and it failed so hopefully that will correct some of the problems.
If that doesn't help then the only thing I know to do is start replacing everything one piece at a time. :bawling:
I was also having the exact same issues the OP is having. After inspection, my ball joint were TOAST and my caster was at 2.0. Synergy ball joints are in and caster adjusted to 4.6. Problem is solved 
Is you front track bar raised or lowered?I have the same exact issues that the OP has been talking about in this thread. It is VERY hard to drive the jeep and makes it unpleasant to drive as well.
My stats:
3.5 RK Max Travel
1.5" spacers in front
RK trac bar
RK drag link flipped at knuckle side
I have new ball joints that I am going to install very soon. I did the "ball joint" test and it failed so hopefully that will correct some of the problems.
If that doesn't help then the only thing I know to do is start replacing everything one piece at a time. :bawling:
Why so much lift in the front ? Asking for troubles IMO.
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Can't remember. I tried several settingsI'm aware of the effects of toe, how much did you adjust it?
When I was doing research on the internet I came upon B.S. on steering stabilizers with a lifted vehicle. - YouTube video. His JK drives fine without the ss. He has different components, but I also have a teraflex adjustable trackbar. The tie rod is different though.That's just the wheel shimmying and the force being transferred through the steering. The steering stabilizer will try to dampen this force, but it can only do so much.
This is pretty normal for a vehicle like this, we don't have rack & pinion steering like cars and SUVs. This is not bump steer.
Correct, you think the stock tie rod would tribute to my shimmy?Drag link and TB look parallel. My question .... All that work. Is that a factory tie rod ?
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21 - 40 of 66 Posts
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