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Discussion Starter #21
Still sitting dead in the driveway. The exhaust valve has no stamping on it to indentify manf. Cross referencing 8 different manf. with no luck. Because of the legal dealings trying to get a refund I can not contact them.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
Running then NOT

Had to buy the valve from 505 under a fake name and assembled the motor. Top end sounded great but now you could hear bottom end. Rattled like a deisel.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgdB8gmY5PxMZzBdk3A

I sent the link to a couple people that have been great at helping with this and both side connecting rod noise and since we know 505 cut corners on valves maybe he did the same thing on the bottom. Suggestion was to plasti gauge the connecting rods. Found the gap to be way out of spec. Spec is .0007-.0026 plasti gauge had all at .003 or more! For a new rebuilt motor using stock size bearing that again tells me workmanship is the culprit. Then look at the journals! They are pitted beyond reason. Both of these factors could explain why oil pressure so inconsistent. So pulling the motor out. Taking crank and rods to local shop to see if they can be turned and add larger bearings.
https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgdBbq3792vviaCEqBQ

https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgdB2SDIZBj9SC-azkA


https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgdEeaYhk-BiHxN0Bnw

https://1drv.ms/i/s!ApIc0fIv6h-DgdEPUFphkJNF1QKuMA
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Why?

So many of my friends ask why not just dispute charge through bank and give him back the motor? I would loose the additional $5,000 I have into it this far.

Sue him they say!
I’ve had his company investigated and he has nothing to win, he’s obviously been down this road before. I definitely would win and have a judgement to prove it which is fine but no cash back in my pocket. I have to get this jeep on the road and the point to all of his is more power. I am confident once built correctly I will gain at least 100 HP at 3000 rpms. The concept of a stroker is good it’s the execution of 505 Performance that’s the problem.
 

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you can go piss up a rope
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So many of my friends ask why not just dispute charge through bank and give him back the motor? I would loose the additional $5,000 I have into it this far.
People who say "dispute the charge" or "sue the guy" typically have not had the displeasure of doing either. There are no winners when a dispute cannot be resolved without lawyers or bankers.

If it were me, I would stop spending money trying to polish a turd and reassess the risks vs. goals on this project and head in a new direction. LS is just better. Sell the block as a project / fixer. Walk away with newfound knowledge that can help someone else.

There's a guy here who pissed away >100k trying to fix stupid. You don't want to be that guy.


EDIT:
At this point, have you done a full tear down, hot tank, pressure test, magnaflux, measurements and all that?
 

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Discussion Starter #27
People who say "dispute the charge" or "sue the guy" typically have not had the displeasure of doing either. There are no winners when a dispute cannot be resolved without lawyers or bankers.

If it were me, I would stop spending money trying to polish a turd and reassess the risks vs. goals on this project and head in a new direction. LS is just better. Sell the block as a project / fixer. Walk away with newfound knowledge that can help someone else.

There's a guy here who pissed away >100k trying to fix stupid. You don't want to be that guy.


EDIT:
At this point, have you done a full tear down, hot tank, pressure test, magnaflux, measurements and all that?


Top end completely redone. Pulling motor next week for bottom overhaul and new crank from Hesco.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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The pitting on that journal is mind numbing to look at. Holy shit!
the top does sound like it’s doing it’s thing ; crossing fingers for ya on this & correction to bottom end.
Whew. what makes a bearing journal have pits like that ?

:jeep2:







 

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beyond the OP's , @radwelder , troubles ,as well as past incidents/victims , ya know, this scenario really sucks.

As we all know- if you go check out options - no one is really making such '3.8l-centric' performance upgrades or has even attempted to - like this proprietor. They claim to have higher pressure oil-pump plates and hi-Performance torque converters and then the subject-at-hand , the stroker kits ( "stages 1,2 &3" - it's staged, alright...) .
It just seems a shame that someone that could actually make a fine profit and benefit the JK community greatly has such a miserable ethic and business savvy. I'd say they'd do extremely well for themselves if they could only do what they claim. I guess they maybe know that and opt to take the money and just not do anything .
It truly is horrible that OP had to sneak under an alt identity to order a freaking valve. I get the litigation cause but it just sucks beyond that that this jerkwad proprietor takes people like this. I got irked all-over again about this today* . :nono:



*(edit:cause the 505performanceless stuff is NOT cheap!)
 

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Do your homework and feel free to contact me if you have any chance of using this company and their crate 4.1 stroker motor in place of the 3.8. Its been a nightmare for me. 6 weeks in and I still trying to build the motor they sent so i can drive my 2008 JKUR. My Dyno shop refuses to run it fully for fear it will blow up on his machine. It started with timing cover installed with wrong gasket blocking port to feed drivers side. They sent second timing cover and again sent the wrong gasket. Then throwing codes about crank and cam position. Found timing gear set installed 1 tooth off. Then had lifters rattling and some not holding pressure, replaced all lifters and found 5 exhaust valves of one type and size and a 6th of different design and size. 7 weeks into it and still cant drive jeep. The tuners was concerned about all the knocking. The top end was so poorly put together I question how the bottom end was assembled. Still trying to work through getting this motor running. They said they would send another new motor within ten business days but after 15 business days they said still waiting on parts. Trying to wait me out. I have claim with BBB and starting litigation. Just hope to save other people the heartache and cost of dealing with 505 Performance. I have 48 pages of emails about each problem and 1.5 gigs of pictures and video identifying the build quality.
I'm the owner of 505 Performance, Zach Steele and I'm replying to Radwelder Rick Dawson. I am not a forum poster, but I felt compelled to reply to this post. radwelder claiming that 505 Performance did the motor wrong and that things were installed improperly is completely the opinion of a non-professional, shade-tree mechanic. Mr. Dawson contacted 505 after installing the engine stating he had no oil pressure or that he could not get the oil to pick up. After exhausting all efforts, 505 Performance informed Dawson to check the oil galley plug and clearance on the the new hv billet oil pump to make sure there was no interference - as he had gotten one of the first of the brand new HV billet oil pumps. So at this point the Dawson pulled the front timing cover and (timing chain) off of the engine. Customer couldn't see anything wrong. So I overnighted him a new timing cover, new billet oil pump valued at $875 at no cost to the customer. The customer then installed the oil pump and brand new timing cover he called and said that the motor seemed lazy and would hardly run. So they pulled the timing cover back off and then claimed that the timing chain was installed one tooth off - but remember earlier the customer had the timing cover AND timing chain off so when it was put back on HE made the mistake NOT 505. 505 Performance does a compression test on every engine before it leaves the facility. I know it had 140psi + for compression so that means that timing chain was in correct position when it left. The next email I received from him stated that he was running the vehicle on the dyno and that it was making unbelievable power, but maybe had a lifter that was not pumping up. Please see his dyno sheet that is part of this post. At this time I had spoken to EPW and Morrell and they were sending new lifters to put in the engine, possible lifter recall. Dawson demanded I send him a brand new engine and that once the new engine was received he would return the other. I informed him it would take us 2-3 weeks to build the new engine and that I would contact him when ready to ship so we could exchange engines. Under the company warranty, all engines need to be returned to 505 Performance before ANY warranty would be issued or inspected by a 505 Performance authorized shop. I, the owner, was going to help Dawson out and exchange the engine without payment. I told him we needed the front cover and his core to finish the second engine. That is when he informed me that he was using the 505 original front cover and the oil pressure was fine. That is when I found out he was using the wrong method for trying to prime the engine – he stated that he was cranking the engine over at less than 200rpm not allowing the oil pump to pick up oil pressure as these oil pumps must turn at least 500rpm to prime. We send out installation manual with each engine and it is also available on our website. We were approx.. 2-3 weeks in to building his new engine when Dawson sent an email saying that he was going to sue my company and he contacted the BBB because we had not taken care of this in the time frame he wanted. I told him to send the engine back and we will run diagnostics and make all repairs necessary with full warranty. Please see case on BBB – which was in our favor. I am not trying to get out of fixing the engine and I will be the first to admit if I have made a mistake, we are all human. But I have to have the engine here or at an authorized shop to make the necessary warranty claims and run diagnostics – it’s as simple as that. Once the BBB contacted my company and his threatening law suit email I explained he would need to follow the warranty paperwork explicitly in order to move forward with the claim.
1. Customer didn’t know how to prime the engine – there was never a problem with oil pump.
2. Customer pulled timing chain and reinstalled incorrectly
3. 505 did everything within our power to take care of this customer but we will not be bullied or threatened.
4. Customer was given the choice to send engine back for full repair under warranty but has refused.
5. Customer never filled out or returned warranty paperwork within appropriate time frame. We still don’t have it!
6. Pictures and comments are heresay – we use high quality parts and we have been in business for 16 years with racing championships worldwide. We build approx. 300 engines a year.
 

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Do your homework and feel free to contact me if you have any chance of using this company and their crate 4.1 stroker motor in place of the 3.8. Its been a nightmare for me. 6 weeks in and I still trying to build the motor they sent so i can drive my 2008 JKUR. My Dyno shop refuses to run it fully for fear it will blow up on his machine. It started with timing cover installed with wrong gasket blocking port to feed drivers side. They sent second timing cover and again sent the wrong gasket. Then throwing codes about crank and cam position. Found timing gear set installed 1 tooth off. Then had lifters rattling and some not holding pressure, replaced all lifters and found 5 exhaust valves of one type and size and a 6th of different design and size. 7 weeks into it and still cant drive jeep. The tuners was concerned about all the knocking. The top end was so poorly put together I question how the bottom end was assembled. Still trying to work through getting this motor running. They said they would send another new motor within ten business days but after 15 business days they said still waiting on parts. Trying to wait me out. I have claim with BBB and starting litigation. Just hope to save other people the heartache and cost of dealing with 505 Performance. I have 48 pages of emails about each problem and 1.5 gigs of pictures and video identifying the build quality.
I'm the owner of 505 Performance, Zach Steele and I'm replying to Radwelder Rick Dawson. I am not a forum poster, but I felt compelled to reply to this post. radwelder claiming that 505 Performance did the motor wrong and that things were installed improperly is completely the opinion of a non-professional, shade-tree mechanic. Mr. Dawson contacted 505 after installing the engine stating he had no oil pressure or that he could not get the oil to pick up. After exhausting all efforts, 505 Performance informed Dawson to check the oil galley plug and clearance on the the new hv billet oil pump to make sure there was no interference - as he had gotten one of the first of the brand new HV billet oil pumps. So at this point the Dawson pulled the front timing cover and (timing chain) off of the engine. Customer couldn't see anything wrong. So I overnighted him a new timing cover, new billet oil pump valued at $875 at no cost to the customer. The customer then installed the oil pump and brand new timing cover he called and said that the motor seemed lazy and would hardly run. So they pulled the timing cover back off and then claimed that the timing chain was installed one tooth off - but remember earlier the customer had the timing cover AND timing chain off so when it was put back on HE made the mistake NOT 505. 505 Performance does a compression test on every engine before it leaves the facility. I know it had 140psi + for compression so that means that timing chain was in correct position when it left. The next email I received from him stated that he was running the vehicle on the dyno and that it was making unbelievable power, but maybe had a lifter that was not pumping up. Please see his dyno sheet that is part of this post. At this time I had spoken to EPW and Morrell and they were sending new lifters to put in the engine, possible lifter recall. Dawson demanded I send him a brand new engine and that once the new engine was received he would return the other. I informed him it would take us 2-3 weeks to build the new engine and that I would contact him when ready to ship so we could exchange engines. Under the company warranty, all engines need to be returned to 505 Performance before ANY warranty would be issued or inspected by a 505 Performance authorized shop. I, the owner, was going to help Dawson out and exchange the engine without payment. I told him we needed the front cover and his core to finish the second engine. That is when he informed me that he was using the 505 original front cover and the oil pressure was fine. That is when I found out he was using the wrong method for trying to prime the engine – he stated that he was cranking the engine over at less than 200rpm not allowing the oil pump to pick up oil pressure as these oil pumps must turn at least 500rpm to prime. We send out installation manual with each engine and it is also available on our website. We were approx.. 2-3 weeks in to building his new engine when Dawson sent an email saying that he was going to sue my company and he contacted the BBB because we had not taken care of this in the time frame he wanted. I told him to send the engine back and we will run diagnostics and make all repairs necessary with full warranty. Please see case on BBB – which was in our favor. I am not trying to get out of fixing the engine and I will be the first to admit if I have made a mistake, we are all human. But I have to have the engine here or at an authorized shop to make the necessary warranty claims and run diagnostics – it’s as simple as that. Once the BBB contacted my company and his threatening law suit email I explained he would need to follow the warranty paperwork explicitly in order to move forward with the claim.
1. Customer didn’t know how to prime the engine – there was never a problem with oil pump.
2. Customer pulled timing chain and reinstalled incorrectly
3. 505 did everything within our power to take care of this customer but we will not be bullied or threatened.
4. Customer was given the choice to send engine back for full repair under warranty but has refused.
5. Customer never filled out or returned warranty paperwork within appropriate time frame. We still don’t have it!
6. Pictures and comments are heresay – we use high quality parts and we have been in business for 16 years with racing championships worldwide. We build approx. 300 engines a year.
 

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So many of my friends ask why not just dispute charge through bank and give him back the motor? I would loose the additional $5,000 I have into it this far.

Sue him they say!
I’ve had his company investigated and he has nothing to win, he’s obviously been down this road before. I definitely would win and have a judgement to prove it which is fine but no cash back in my pocket. I have to get this jeep on the road and the point to all of his is more power. I am confident once built correctly I will gain at least 100 HP at 3000 rpms. The concept of a stroker is good it’s the execution of 505 Performance that’s the problem.
A judgement only happens once a case has gone to court and a judge makes a ruling. We have not been to court with you, nor have we been contacted by your attorney. So, that is false information you are presenting on this forum. Yes, you contacted the BBB which ended up in our favor. We gave you solutions, but you refused them all. Refer to your warranty paperwork that you still have not filed with the company. No company on the planet shells out cash for a warranty claim without proper paperwork being filed.
 

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I have dropped the heads off at a local machine shop for inspection and a written assessment then I will include that letter in my response to 505. I am looking into litigation but so far it appears that I would win a piece of paper. The companies assets are very little and receiving a judgement that never would be paid is why I’m having to finish building this motor myself.


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Again - A judgement ONLY happens once a case has gone to court and a judge makes a ruling. We have not been to court with you, nor have we been contacted by your attorney. AND IF you had a judgement then the court ensures it is paid. So again, that is false information you are presenting on this forum. Yes, you contacted the BBB which ended up in our favor. We gave you solutions, but you refused them all. Refer to your warranty paperwork that you still have not filed with the company. No company on the planet shells out cash for a warranty claim without proper paperwork being filed.
 

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We gave you solutions, but you refused them all. Refer to your warranty paperwork that you still have not filed with the company. No company on the planet shells out cash for a warranty claim without proper paperwork being filed. On a side note Hesco has great products. BTW we get our crankshafts from the same manufacturer.
 

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Discussion Starter #40
Be patient your time is coming. FYI all, Jerad L and Miranda K are both employees of 505 as I have documents with both their names on them from billing to shipping. Their BBB comments are not trust worthy.

https://www.bbb.org/phoenix/business-reviews/auto-accessories/505-performance-in-phoenix-az-1000043616/reviews-and-complaints

https://www.bbb.org/phoenix/business-reviews/auto-accessories/505-performance-in-phoenix-az-1000043616/reviews-and-complaints

As for you BBB claim in your favor, read below:

This message originally read on 1/11/2018
Rich Dawson


Dear Rich Dawson,

This message is regarding Complaint ID # 12516520- 505 Performance

Thank you for following up with BBB regarding your position in the above-mentioned dispute.

We understand you are NOT satisfied with the business’s response, and have noted your dissatisfaction in our files. While we regret we were unable to reach your desired resolution, the business has provided BBB with its position. This matter is now closed in BBB files, and will appear in the company’s BBB Business Review as: “Answered - the business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer remains dissatisfied.”

Please note, the text of your response may be publicly posted on BBB’s website. BBB reserves the right to not post in accordance with BBB policy, and we may edit your response to protect privacy rights and to remove inappropriate language.

We appreciate the opportunity to be of service, and sincerely hope you will contact us for pre-purchase information.


Sincerely,



Your Better Business Bureau

The lawyer is coming once I get the total expense of rebuilding this motor, your warranty will not be the issue. Purposely defrauding customers will be my claim.

Oh and one last thing, check your email to confirm correct spelling. My name is Ric(H) not Ric(K)

JKForums. My apologizes for the direction where this post has gone. Once this stroker motor is built correctly it will show a cost effective alternative to a V8 swap. Another dyno run to come once motor is back together.
 
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