[Dancin Dan]

So, all the major servicers (mine included) got together with the Attorney General in most states (there were a few holdouts) and decided that as penance for fucking up the global economy with their greediness and robo-signing off on millions of foreclosures, they would all pool funds together and pay down the principal balance on loans where people are behind to help them get back on track. $26 Billion was set aside for this. Sure sounds good on paper, dunnit?

Here's the rub; any loan that was packaged into a mortgage backed security where investors put money in and enjoyed steady income as people made their payments on those loans is not eligible. Anyone who has a loan that was transferred on the secondary market to another investor is ALSO no eligible. Think about that for a minute. Ever get a notification in the mail that your servicer was changing and that you would be sending payments not to the people you closed your loan with, but a new mortgage servicer? Yep, if you ever got one of those, you'll be pissing up a flagpole trying to get any relief out of this new program.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2012/real_estate/1203/gallery.mortgage-settlement/index.html

At some point, people are gonna stop being so goddamned polite about this, start breaking out the torches and the pitchforks and heading to the homes of these executives, politicians and lobbyists. I, for one, welcome those days. It would at least alleviate my fear that the collective scrotum of America has shrunk to frightened turtle proportions for lack of a set of balls to fill it with.

Discuss.

 

[PhrogMech46]

This is fucking bullshit and I'm tired of these programs that really dont help anyone. I have done the responsible thing and made my mortgage payment on my house that is worth way less than what I payed for the past 5 years while everyone I know that walked away from their debt has been able to buy a new home now at current market value. Ive called my lender(it has changed 3 times) to ask what is available for me and they say "sir you have never missed a payment so what is the issue, you must be delinquent in order to qualify for anything". WTF I should of just bailed like everyone else did years ago. These banks need to stop dragging this shit out eat their losses now to base line the market and stimulate this shit hole of an economy. They should also stop giving out home equity loans because equity as we know now is bullshit and is a gamble for both parties. Rant is over

 

[09rubicon]

Come to my area. I make 65k+ a year, have had my Job for over 15 years and have a credit score over 730+. Guess what? I can't buy a house without 20% down. Why? Because with a VA loan, a good credit score and no PMI the loan would be low risk and there is no money to be made by the bank! I have even gone and seen a few lawyers, they all agree I have a case but it wouldnt be worth what it would cost to take the servicers to court. Got to love Cali!

 

[unsub]

Riddle me this Dan, if when people got a house and the value of that house went up twenty grand the bank didn't go to them and say the house is worth more money we want to add twenty grand to your loan. So why do people want the banks to knock off twenty grand off there loan cause there house is now worth twenty grand less? I wasn't able to do it on my 401k that tanked, why would you be able to do it on a home loan?

 

[Dancin Dan]

Riddle me this Dan, if when people got a house and the value of that house went up twenty grand the bank didn't go to them and say the house is worth more money we want to add twenty grand to your loan. So why do people want the banks to knock off twenty grand off there loan cause there house is now worth twenty grand less? I wasn't able to do it on my 401k that tanked, why would you be able to do it on a home loan?

Entitlement. Plain and simple, it's about these people crying loud enough that the state attorneys general got involved to slap all these servicers on the wrist for their part in the "robo-signing" scandal. Simply put, no one was checking the paperwork on their way out the door to foreclosure. I think we should have backed up a step and checked again on that paperwork that came IN the door. If someone didn't qualify or they make a fraudulent application, those are the cases where the mortgage companies should have to pay, not for trying to expedite the process of getting someone who has stopped making good on the obligations they signed off on when they bought the joint.

The reason all these mortgage servicers came up with all this cash is because of their assemblyline foreclosure processes that they engaged in the past few years being brought out into the daylight and them deciding to pay a ton of money once being way better than paying a little bit of money for every single documented case where they did it. Has not a damned thing to do with "helping out the American homeowner" and everything to do with them not getting sued into the stoneage on a case by case by every single person who has been foreclosed on since the shitstorm started because that's a figure that gets up in to the 8 figure range - tens of millions of people have lost their homes due to the collapse of the system. Granted, most of them had stopped paying for quite some time and that will always end in foreclosure. That's part of the contract anyone who takes out a mortgage agrees to be bound by. In the cases of property speculators who were betting that the well would never run dry and they could keep flipping properties forever and ever amen with a 140% profit on each one, I think they got what was coming to them.

What I have a problem with is the whole collapse itself and the subsequent bailout that came after. Chew on this for a minute; what if the government had said, "nah, you made this shitburger; YOU eat it. We're full." The banks would have fallen like dominos, the investors would have taken a beating, world markets would have gotten thrown into chaos... you know, sort of like EXACTLY what just happened over the past 4 years. What would be different? What happens when the company that holds your note goes belly up? Who do you pay?

NO ONE.


Think about how much extra cash people across America would have had in their hands if suddenly all the mortgage companies were gone overnight. There would have been no crisis. Fuck, I would singlehandedly be keeping JustJeepGear.com afloat with all the mods I'd be installing. I'd have about 1500/month in my pocket. That's 18,000/year. I'd be rolling on 45" tires in a bombproof JK man.

But we did save em. And you know what they did for all the trouble they caused for the American populace? NOTHIN. Where did the TARP money REALLY go? I mean, if it was supposed to help out, how did it get applied? Who oversaw the disbursement of funds to these people and why wasn't there at least a fuckin roadmap drawn up on how and when it had to be returned?

In the end, it has nothin to do with how much someone's house is worth because value is only determined by a guy agreeing to a price on something. It's only worth 200K if there's someone ready willing and able to pay 200k for it. Otherwise, it's worth whatever someone feels like givin ya. Unless you qualify for this ass backward plan where you have to be late on your payments, your servicer has never changed and you were standing on one leg while your spouse circles you, chanting and burning incense under the light of a harvest moon when you originally applied for the loan ten years ago.

 

[Dancin Dan]

This is fucking bullshit and I'm tired of these programs that really dont help anyone. I have done the responsible thing and made my mortgage payment on my house that is worth way less than what I payed for the past 5 years while everyone I know that walked away from their debt has been able to buy a new home now at current market value. Ive called my lender(it has changed 3 times) to ask what is available for me and they say "sir you have never missed a payment so what is the issue, you must be delinquent in order to qualify for anything". WTF I should of just bailed like everyone else did years ago. These banks need to stop dragging this shit out eat their losses now to base line the market and stimulate this shit hole of an economy. They should also stop giving out home equity loans because equity as we know now is bullshit and is a gamble for both parties. Rant is over

Well, now you've hit on the nerve this strikes with me. What the fuck good is a program if only people who're disregarding their contractual obligations are eligible? Maybe we should just all sink to the bottom and hope for our bailout, right? Sick sad part about that is people are doing it, and they're succeeding by failing. They're getting principal reductions of almost 100K and they're modifying the loans so that the monthly obligations get even smaller.

I am not a fan of safety nets of any kind. If you fall, get up. If you break something, go to the doc, if you can't afford a doc, be smarter with your money. All this coddling shit is raising an entire generation of cripples who have no idea what it's like to just flat out fail. I know I sure as hell don't, but I'd like to think that faced with the bottom of the barrel, I'd start swimming for the top again.


By the way, take a look into the HARP program. If your lender is not a participating lender, find one that is and see if they'll help you get squared away. There's no fucking excuse for a bank shitting on the guy who honors his committments, unless you look at the bottom line; it's simply more lucrative for them to tell you to head down to the coast and pound sand.

Here's some links that might help you figure out if it's right for you. Pretty sure this currently applies only to FNMA or FHLMC loans (Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac).

http://www.zillow.com/mortgage-calculator/harp-eligibility/

http://harp-mortgage.com/new-harp-mortgage-program-guidelines/

 

[Dancin Dan]

Come to my area. I make 65k+ a year, have had my Job for over 15 years and have a credit score over 730+. Guess what? I can't buy a house without 20% down. Why? Because with a VA loan, a good credit score and no PMI the loan would be low risk and there is no money to be made by the bank! I have even gone and seen a few lawyers, they all agree I have a case but it wouldnt be worth what it would cost to take the servicers to court. Got to love Cali!

California is like a different planet when it comes to mortgage originations. Since they pushed their values up to impossibly inflated levels during the boom, they're getting crushed now that the bubble has burst. No one is gonna get a fair shake out there for many more years to come, sad to say. There are more foreclosures coming in everyday and I don't see the flow slowing anytime soon, so grab a helmet, get a shovel and start digging in, man.

Besides, up until just a few short years ago, a guy couldn't get anywhere near a mortgage loan officer unless he had that 20% down in his bank account. Now that this whole mortgage thing is in full swing, the paradigm of mortgage underwriting approval has been bombed back into the stoneage. You basically need to prove you don't need a loan in order to even get a loan.

As much as that sucks, it's a pretty reasonable reaction on the part of the banks. After years of money being super cheap (low interest rates) and readily available to so many people, many of whom were nowhere NEAR creditworthy (Fuck you very much Barney Frank, you cockgobbling jerkoff) that the pendulum eventually HAD to swing the other way for awhile.

Sucks you're on that side of things, but that's just the name of the game right now.

 

[09rubicon]

What happens when the company that holds your note goes belly up? Who do you pay?

NO ONE.

Sadley not true. In the end the homeowner (borower) will be the one getting screwed. When a company goes belly up all the assets are sold off, usually pennies on the dollar. The sale of these assets go to pay the creditors of said company. Here is the shitty part though. The homeowner, who has possesion and rights to the property will never be offered the chance to purchase the home at auction value (say 25 on the dollar) because they are not a creditor. Instead they will be bundled up, sold as blocks and purchased by the same individuals that just went belly up under a different name. They are imediatley resold on the market at say .50 on the dollar so that the purchaser can make a profit and pay the creditors which are only entiled to the original 25 cents, hey....that was the auction price. During all of this the homeowner ends up getting burned at least once for not paying the right servicer at the right time (remeber, it may have changed hands 4 times in 48 hours) or at best just gets pissed off trying to figure out who the new servicer is. No where is there a law or rule requiring the homeowner be offered the oppurtunity to purchase the home at auction value (not that many could), or that the homeowner be notified xx days prior to servicer changing. Rules like that would limit the profit a company could make.

Bottom line is I agree that none of this bail out crap should have happened, let something like BofA fail because of its practices and watch the other banks straighten up knowing there is no saftey net! I think it would do this country good.

Now, as a non-homeowner why does this piss me off? Because of all this shit and because I dont qualify for any special programs (remeber kids, I have been responsible with my finances and credit), I CAN'T BUY A HOUSE, because the loan is TOO LOW RISK, and there is NO MONEY TO BE MADE ON LOW RISK LOANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fuck this socialist crap, the silent majority will not remain silent much longer, mark my words, change is brewing!

 

[Dancin Dan]

Starting to look like a wall o text in here.

That's it. I need beer.


I gotta get outta this office before I lose my shit.:suicide::flame::shitstorm::flipoff:

 

[09rubicon]

Starting to look like a wall o text in here.

That's it. I need beer.


I gotta get outta this office before I lose my shit.:suicide::flame::shitstorm::flipoff:

Sorry had to vent. I actually just went through all of this last summer. The home I am in right now (a lease) was forclosed on. Sadley because my lease contract was with the property managment company and not the actual homeowner I had to continue to pay. The upside is my lease was signed while the homeowner was still in good standing. Meaning my lease was still legal. The bank went ape shit trying to evict me, to the point of getting a writ of eviction and sending the Sherrif to my house! Not withstanding the extreme annoyance and nightly calls, usually between 11pm and 3 am by the bank it was actually funny watching them squirm trying to get me out of a residence they had no legal ability to do so. Should have seen the Sherrifs when I showed them my lease! I even offered to move if they cut me a check for $10k! Of course then the servicer went belly up. Sucks to be the leasee at that point. Legally I still owed, but figuring out to who was another story! Then of course the new owners, who can barley afford to pay the rent on their one bedroom appartment can afford to buy a rental property (because of all the special programs to help the unfourtinate of our society) while my offer stands refused on the grounds that there is not enough profit in a low risk loan (yes they actually gave me that in writing!). I proceed to go find a decent lawyer who informs me its a slam dunk case if I have three years to play with in the courts.

 

[Dancin Dan]

Sorry had to vent. No worries. That was part of the reason I posted this in the first place. I work for one of the servicers involved in the agreement. :suicide:I actually just went through all of this last summer. The home I am in right now (a lease) was forclosed on. Sadley because my lease contract was with the property managment company and not the actual homeowner I had to continue to pay. The upside is my lease was signed while the homeowner was still in good standing. Meaning my lease was still legal. The bank went ape shit trying to evict me, to the point of getting a writ of eviction and sending the Sherrif to my house! Hmm... I think that may be a nono. You were a tenant in posession with a legal contract to be there. Not withstanding the extreme annoyance and nightly calls, usually between 11pm and 3 am TOTALLY illegal. You can DEFINITELY sue them and win if you can document this. by the bank it was actually funny watching them squirm trying to get me out of a residence they had no legal ability to do so. Should have seen the Sherrifs when I showed them my lease! I even offered to move if they cut me a check for $10k! Of course then the servicer went belly up. Sucks to be the leasee at that point. Legally I still owed, but figuring out to who was another story! So you mean the prop management company? I would think that's who you would have continued paying in that scenario Then of course the new owners, who can barley afford to pay the rent on their one bedroom appartment can afford to buy a rental property (because of all the special programs to help the unfourtinate of our society) UGH enough to make ya wanna :suicide: ain't it? while my offer stands refused on the grounds that there is not enough profit in a low risk loan (yes they actually gave me that in writing!)This is the point where I start thinking about the reason they're denying it. I'd press for a better answer, since low risk is a battle cry in our industry at the moment. . I proceed to go find a decent lawyer who informs me its a slam dunk case if I have three years to play with in the courts.

How much of your time could it possibly eat? Hire the attorney on a contingency basis (if you get paid, he gets paid) and let him handle it. At most, you fill out some paperwork and aggravate the servicer. Turnabout is fair play, man.

Hope it works out for ya.

 

[09rubicon]

Couple reasons why I didnt persue it:

1. I am still in the military, I may not be here in three years. The intent was to buy it as my primary residence then rent it out once I have to PCS, it is good location for rentals.

2. I have everything documented. The lawyers all laughed at the mistakes they made and even the Sheriff apologised after the fact for not double checking the paperwork.

3. The main reasons for denial were all monitary. VA requires the seller/bank to pay for several of the inspections the buyer would normally cover. I offered to pay for all of these out of pocket, but because I refused to pay their bonded but not licensed contractor (direct employee of loan holder) and stated I would use my own LICENSED contractor(s) they refused (also illegal i believe). I also have this in writing!

4. No Lawyer in my area wanted to take on GMAC under contingency. All stated they know they could win hands down, but knew GMAC would tie it up in the courts for years or sell off the loan before action could be taken. Both of which keep money out of the pockets of the lawyers for an extended time (I hate lawyers, but I can actually empathise with this).

5. The standard down in my area is 3% +closing (exactly what the new owners paid), GMAC were demanding I pay closing +15% or enter into a PMI agreement (which isnt necassary with VA backing the top 25%) and I called them on it after seeing the competing offers (I know I shouldnt state that.....after the fact now), I didnt let them know at the time I had seen the other offers. I tried to compromise and offered 10% down, no deal.

In the end I still live in the same place which I like. I also excersised my lease agreement clause for extension (pissed the new landlord off because they couldnt raise the rent! They have since gotten over it) and am still here. Only difference is I am throwing away $1680 a month vs. building equity in a home/investment.

 

[PhrogMech46]

Well, now you've hit on the nerve this strikes with me. What the fuck good is a program if only people who're disregarding their contractual obligations are eligible? Maybe we should just all sink to the bottom and hope for our bailout, right? Sick sad part about that is people are doing it, and they're succeeding by failing. They're getting principal reductions of almost 100K and they're modifying the loans so that the monthly obligations get even smaller.

I am not a fan of safety nets of any kind. If you fall, get up. If you break something, go to the doc, if you can't afford a doc, be smarter with your money. All this coddling shit is raising an entire generation of cripples who have no idea what it's like to just flat out fail. I know I sure as hell don't, but I'd like to think that faced with the bottom of the barrel, I'd start swimming for the top again.


By the way, take a look into the HARP program. If your lender is not a participating lender, find one that is and see if they'll help you get squared away. There's no fucking excuse for a bank shitting on the guy who honors his committments, unless you look at the bottom line; it's simply more lucrative for them to tell you to head down to the coast and pound sand.

Here's some links that might help you figure out if it's right for you. Pretty sure this currently applies only to FNMA or FHLMC loans (Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac).

http://www.zillow.com/mortgage-calculator/harp-eligibility/

http://harp-mortgage.com/new-harp-mortgage-program-guidelines/

It's funny you mention this because as of the 19th of this month the Harp program made revision that allow a refi no matter what the equity deficit is, which previously was capped at 105%. I got approved for it which lowered my interest from 6.125 to 4.75. I am happy in that as long as I am able to I will make good on my debt and all I wanted was a fair shot at today's interest rates.

So everyone that is up side down on there loan should definetly look into Harp 2.

 

[Dancin Dan]

It's funny you mention this because as of the 19th of this month the Harp program made revision that allow a refi no matter what the equity deficit is, which previously was capped at 105%. I got approved for it which lowered my interest from 6.125 to 4.75. I am happy in that as long as I am able to I will make good on my debt and all I wanted was a fair shot at today's interest rates.

So everyone that is up side down on there loan should definetly look into Harp 2.

 

[PhrogMech46]

Sorry had to vent. I actually just went through all of this last summer. The home I am in right now (a lease) was forclosed on. Sadley because my lease contract was with the property managment company and not the actual homeowner I had to continue to pay. The upside is my lease was signed while the homeowner was still in good standing. Meaning my lease was still legal. The bank went ape shit trying to evict me, to the point of getting a writ of eviction and sending the Sherrif to my house! Not withstanding the extreme annoyance and nightly calls, usually between 11pm and 3 am by the bank it was actually funny watching them squirm trying to get me out of a residence they had no legal ability to do so. Should have seen the Sherrifs when I showed them my lease! I even offered to move if they cut me a check for $10k! Of course then the servicer went belly up. Sucks to be the leasee at that point. Legally I still owed, but figuring out to who was another story! Then of course the new owners, who can barley afford to pay the rent on their one bedroom appartment can afford to buy a rental property (because of all the special programs to help the unfourtinate of our society) while my offer stands refused on the grounds that there is not enough profit in a low risk loan (yes they actually gave me that in writing!). I proceed to go find a decent lawyer who informs me its a slam dunk case if I have three years to play with in the courts.

Thats another issue, I know people and even family that foreclosed on multifamily properties but hired lawyers to drag it out over three years. The thing is they weren't required to pay the lender anymore but continued to collect rent.

 

[09rubicon]

I need to clarify something in my rant. We are talking about two seperate companies thruout this process. The company that forclosed on the original home owner and tried to illegaly evict me was some fly by night place out of Nevada (Cherry Inc. or something like that). When they went belly-up GMAC assumed the loan. GMAC is the one that gave me heartache over the terms and not making enough profit on the low risk loan.

 

[Dancin Dan]

I need to clarify something in my rant. We are talking about two seperate companies thruout this process. The company that forclosed on the original home owner and tried to illegaly evict me was some fly by night place out of Nevada (Cherry Inc. or something like that). When they went belly-up GMAC assumed the loan. GMAC is the one that gave me heartache over the terms and not making enough profit on the low risk loan.

Well THERE'S your problem. PM inbound