Brain fart.......CASTER
2016 JKU all over the road, steering problems, white knuckle ride
Steering just feels lost and white knuckle going down the highway. Its very hard to explain but its borderline terrifying. I've checked everything and replaced a lot, also added support/relocation brackets as described below. I've played with tire pressures ( no noticeable difference from 28 -35 psi). I've made slight improvements with replacing parts and adding brackets but cant get it to feel right and am about to use this POS for target practice!!!!!
All joints checked for slop by placing my hand across the joint with someone cranking the wheel side to side and no deflection at any joint . Just did this again today
Whilst adjusting my toe I noticed that when I roared the tie rod ( rotation within the range of the joints) it causes both wheels to turn slightly (one direction when I rotate it up and the opposite when I rotate it down down).As stated above there is no deflection across either tie rod end and the only movement is what is designed into the ball. I have a great video but it wont let me upload it.......has anyone got and insight into this?
- 2016 JKU lifted by previous owner. I am guessing 3-3 1/2"
- 35 x 12.5 tires on 20" rims
- Aftermarket adjustable track bars ( good shape and axles positioned correctly)
- Front track bar bolt replaced and track bar brace and sector shaft brace installed
- Factory control arms but Rancho upper control arm relocation brackets installed (RS82103) with upper control arm in the 3rd hole from the top...so caster is well within spec
- 1/8" Toe in
- New tera flex ball joints
- New drag link
- Falcon 3 setting steering damper
All joints checked for slop by placing my hand across the joint with someone cranking the wheel side to side and no deflection at any joint . Just did this again today
Whilst adjusting my toe I noticed that when I roared the tie rod ( rotation within the range of the joints) it causes both wheels to turn slightly (one direction when I rotate it up and the opposite when I rotate it down down).As stated above there is no deflection across either tie rod end and the only movement is what is designed into the ball. I have a great video but it wont let me upload it.......has anyone got and insight into this?
41 - 60 of 74 Posts
Quick question on this loosening all TB/CA bolts and re torqueing. What would this do?....Is there not sufficient articulation in the bushings that if torqued with the axles unloaded (on a lift) that when loaded there is basically a bind across those joints??.....does the inner metal insert in the bushings not rotate within the rubber??I would expect you need a drag link flip up front and raised rear track bar bracket. Get an alignment at a good shop that specializes in 4x4's and get a print out. Camber is somehting that can get out of hand on a built jeep. Got any photos showing the front and rear set ups? Also something that is free is to loosen up all the control arms and track bars, shake the suspension up and down and then re-tourqe all the link bolts. You may also have an issue with your steering box. Do you have a drop pitman arm?
UPDATE 4/21/22......Steering just feels lost and white knuckle going down the highway. Its very hard to explain but its borderline terrifying. I've checked everything and replaced a lot, also added support/relocation brackets as described below. I've played with tire pressures ( no noticeable difference from 28 -35 psi). I've made slight improvements with replacing parts and adding brackets but cant get it to feel right and am about to use this POS for target practice!!!!!
- 2016 JKU lifted by previous owner. I am guessing 3-3 1/2"
- 35 x 12.5 tires on 20" rims
- Aftermarket adjustable track bars ( good shape and axles positioned correctly)
- Front track bar bolt replaced and track bar brace and sector shaft brace installed
- Factory control arms but Rancho upper control arm relocation brackets installed (RS82103) with upper control arm in the 3rd hole from the top...so caster is well within spec
- 1/8" Toe in
- New tera flex ball joints
- New drag link
- Falcon 3 setting steering damper
All joints checked for slop by placing my hand across the joint with someone cranking the wheel side to side and no deflection at any joint . Just did this again today
Whilst adjusting my toe I noticed that when I roared the tie rod ( rotation within the range of the joints) it causes both wheels to turn slightly (one direction when I rotate it up and the opposite when I rotate it down down).As stated above there is no deflection across either tie rod end and the only movement is what is designed into the ball. I have a great video but it wont let me upload it.......has anyone got and insight into this?
1)..I removed steering stabilizer just to ensure it wasn't masking/blurring my problem. Result was no improvement but slightly different steering feel. Now the steering wheel will react SLIGHTLY to very small bumps (NOT SUSPENSION TRAVEL INDUCED..aka BUMP STEER), but this isn't an issue as its momentary
2)..Adjusted the sector shaft with wheel at full lock left and got about 1/8th of a turn..Result, no noticeable improvement but here never was a huge amount of slop in the steering
3)..Increased tire pressure to 40 PSI (been at pretty much every 2 PSI increments from 25 PSI on up over the last few months)...Result....felt a little better, but still not right
4)..confirmed caster at the two flat points on either side of the differential housing and read "0" pinion so sitting at 6* caster (see pics)
I probably should have included this initially but there is a strange sensation in terms of some sort of body movement, very hard to explain, but just unsettling, even at very slow speeds, maybe the wind.??
I've also paid very close attention to what I experience and will try to explain. Driving an a straight and pretty flat road +/- 30 MPH and tracking pretty straight and all seems fine from time to time I just feel a slight direction change but there has been no movement (voluntarily or involuntarily ) of the steering wheel, I gradually/gently add steering input to correct and it feels like I have to hold that input against slight resistance then it seems to relax. As long as I dont add too much steering all is good for a while. With no apparent rhyme nor reason this keeps occurring to one direction or the other. This doesn't bother me on my local roads at 30 MPH, but this is what I'm
The metal center section is pinched when you tighten the bolts so if this is not done at ride height your bushing are in bind. The joint does not roatate inside the arm.Quick question on this loosening all TB/CA bolts and re torqueing. What would this do?....Is there not sufficient articulation in the bushings that if torqued with the axles unloaded (on a lift) that when loaded there is basically a bind across those joints??.....does the inner metal insert in the bushings not rotate within the rubber??
Damn....I assumed the rubber material rotated on the outside of the metal.....so basically I need to loosed=n everything and re-torque on my back on the driveway......cant wait. Are you aware of any aftermarket replacement bushings that do facilitate rotation?The metal center section is pinched when you tighten the bolts so if this is not done at ride height your bushing are in bind. The joint does not roatate inside the arm.
Ball and socket style like a Johnny joint or Barnes Enduro joint. Also heims but I would not put them on a daily driver.
Yea, its a daily and not interested in going that far....I did fine an Energy Suspension urethane bushing kit that might be worth a tryBall and socket style like a Johnny joint or Barnes Enduro joint. Also heims but I would not put them on a daily driver.
those are junk and will wear out fast.
And your basing this on what?????....they've been used for ever in the hotrod worldthose are junk and will wear out fast.
LOL, I did not realize you were building a hotrod. Take a minute and think about it.And your basing this on what?????....they've been used for ever in the hotrod world
I love it when people that don't know what they are doing ask for help and question everything and think they are reinventing the wheel with some obscure product they find in an internet search.
A)...I do know what I am doing (I've been building hotrods/racecars for years and the same logic applies) , just trying to confirm issues/fixes with non assholes that have addressed the specific issue. B)..Urethane bushings are NOT some obscure product, and I didn't need to do an internet search to discover them....just to see if they were available for a JK .LOL, I did not realize you were building a hotrod. Take a minute and think about it.
I love it when people that don't know what they are doing ask for help and question everything and think they are reinventing the wheel with some obscure product they find in an internet search.
C)...If you bothered (or managed) to read the thread you would understand its a street vehicle and heim/Johnny joints are an incredibly stupid suggestion
Seems like you did or you would not have posted it up. Hot Rods and race cars have a totally different type of supension over jeeps. The same logic does not apply. Urethane bushings are hard and don't flex well, they break down fast on a jeep with the longer travel it has vs a hot rod that has limited travel and typically has a very firm suspension. They we used years ago on jeeps and they just did not hold up. I would not recommend heims on a daily driver but a Johnny joint is perfectly fine and is used by many lift companies in their kits. They off good misaligment and still give some comfort with the race material they use. Metal Cloak and Synergy also make very good joints for the daily driver. I read your thread and installing 20" wheels with 35" tires and complaining about the ride is also a retard move in the jeep world. Good luck with your ******* up of a jeep.
Im not going to bother with the rest of your drivel but There is NO relevance between wheel /tire size and the issues I am facing. The shorter tire sidewall will help the situation in regards to less sidewall lateral flex which creates a vague steering feel. I had 33/17's on before the 35's and it was WORSESeems like you did or you would not have posted it up. Hot Rods and race cars have a totally different type of supension over jeeps. The same logic does not apply. Urethane bushings are hard and don't flex well, they break down fast on a jeep with the longer travel it has vs a hot rod that has limited travel and typically has a very firm suspension. They we used years ago on jeeps and they just did not hold up. I would not recommend heims on a daily driver but a Johnny joint is perfectly fine and is used by many lift companies in their kits. They off good misaligment and still give some comfort with the race material they use. Metal Cloak and Synergy also make very good joints for the daily driver. I read your thread and installing 20" wheels with 35" tires and complaining about the ride is also a retard move in the jeep world. Good luck with your ******* up of a jeep.
If you say so hot rod, I mean installing tires made for ton truck towing heavy loads is perfect for a light jeep. The problem with your jeep is that it has too much lift on it and not enough things were replaced to correct the ****** up geometry. E rated tires, and stiff running bilstien shocks. Take a 911 and throw some 4" taller coils on it and take it for a ride and tell me how good it handles.
Still not getting the point are you...The tires ARE NOT causing my wandering condition, in fact they are going to minimize it in comparison to some soft, floppy, tall, heavy sidewall flopping all over the place....also, shocks are NOT stiff.... Pretty much everyone on here makes a genuine effort to understand and offer input based on similar experiences, however as with most forums there is that one resident "I know it all and will argue an incorrect theory till the end" W⚓If you say so hot rod, I mean installing tires made for ton truck towing heavy loads is perfect for a light jeep. The problem with your jeep is that it has too much lift on it and not enough things were replaced to correct the ****** up geometry. E rated tires, and stiff running bilstien shocks. Take a 911 and throw some 4" taller coils on it and take it for a ride and tell me how good it handles.
its the exact oppisite. Stiff small sidewall tires on a jeep will grab imperfections and ruts in the road and cause the jeep to wander because of the soft suspensions they have. Softer taller sidewalls will flex more and not transfer these things into the suspension as bad. Wide tires have the same affect at grabbing and causing wandering issues. The solid axle does not help and the transfer of articulation into the steering links. This is just part of your issues like I said with too much lift and not having the adjustable links in your suspension and steering to correct the geometry. You may also have a worn out steering box.
As stated multiple times it does the same thing on smooth flat roads at 20-30 MPH....just not terrifying at those speeds. No issue with tires grabbing imperfections...I can manage that. All geometry is within spec. ....steering box makes sense as I just mentioned I adjusted the sector shaft lash a little the other day and it felt a little better. Biggest single improvement to date was bumping tire pressure from 28/30 to 40/42 PSI
OP, calm your tits. You have world class talent trying to help you and you are being a bit of a peen.
thedirtman is not feeding you a line of shit. He is trying to help you.
thedirtman is not feeding you a line of shit. He is trying to help you.
I dont recall asking you a damned thing so have no idea why you decided to interject your opinion, which is BTW completely irrelevant and unhelpful to the conversation.....( fan boy of dirtman?).If you care to read back through the entire thread you might notice ( but only if you can get dirtman's "peen" off your mind), I've been very respectful and appreciative of comments/ideas/suggestions etc. I do however take pissy, condescending and unnecessary comments such as "I love it when people that don't know what they are doing ask for help and question everything and think they are reinventing the wheel with some obscure product they find in an internet search" as the insult they were intended to deliver.....Moderate that!!!!!!OP, calm your tits. You have world class talent trying to help you and you are being a bit of a peen.
thedirtman is not feeding you a line of shit. He is trying to help you.
Your move...Are you going to calm your tits or block me????
41 - 60 of 74 Posts
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