2016 JKU all over the road, steering problems, white knuckle ride

18301 Views 73 Replies 9 Participants Last post by CRIK, 10 mo ago

adamkphillips1

Discussion Starter · Apr 7, 2022

Steering just feels lost and white knuckle going down the highway. Its very hard to explain but its borderline terrifying. I've checked everything and replaced a lot, also added support/relocation brackets as described below. I've played with tire pressures ( no noticeable difference from 28 -35 psi). I've made slight improvements with replacing parts and adding brackets but cant get it to feel right and am about to use this POS for target practice!!!!!

2016 JKU lifted by previous owner. I am guessing 3-3 1/2"
35 x 12.5 tires on 20" rims
Aftermarket adjustable track bars ( good shape and axles positioned correctly)
Front track bar bolt replaced and track bar brace and sector shaft brace installed
Factory control arms but Rancho upper control arm relocation brackets installed (RS82103) with upper control arm in the 3rd hole from the top...so caster is well within spec
1/8" Toe in
New tera flex ball joints
New drag link
Falcon 3 setting steering damper

All joints checked for slop by placing my hand across the joint with someone cranking the wheel side to side and no deflection at any joint . Just did this again today

Whilst adjusting my toe I noticed that when I roared the tie rod ( rotation within the range of the joints) it causes both wheels to turn slightly (one direction when I rotate it up and the opposite when I rotate it down down).As stated above there is no deflection across either tie rod end and the only movement is what is designed into the ball. I have a great video but it wont let me upload it.......has anyone got and insight into this?

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adamkphillips1

Discussion Starter · #21 · Apr 11, 2022

I bought it with the lift and have identified that it came with aftermarket, adjustable track bars (front and rear), I've since replaced the drag link with an aftermarket unit, braced the front, frame side track bar mount and sector shaft, replaced factory frame side track bar bolt. I did get an alignment prior to adding the Rancho control arm relocation brackets and it was in spec. At that point it had the cam bolt caster adjustment which I just didn't like/trust....Its interesting you mention the rear track bar as because I feel like I'm beating my head against the wall with the front, I've started wondering is there is anything going on in the rear. Have you ever heard of the frame side track bar bolt reaming out the bracket hole like the front can?

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thedirtman

· #22 · Apr 11, 2022

Whats the rear look like? The SS was a waste of good money. You have the factory pitman arm which is good. Check your steering box bolts and some good cleaning and painting would also be a good idea with the amount of rust showing already. If the rear track bar bolts come loose they can oval out the holes just like the front but won't give you death wobble like the front but will give you a wandering feel. Tires can also be an issue. Off road tires need to be roatated more than car tires do. A 3000 mile schedule or at oil changes is recommended. Poor quality roads can have an impact and will show up more on a jeep with wide tires.

adamkphillips1

Discussion Starter · #23 · Apr 11, 2022

thedirtman said:
Whats the rear look like? The SS was a waste of good money. You have the factory pitman arm which is good. Check your steering box bolts and some good cleaning and painting would also be a good idea with the amount of rust showing already. If the rear track bar bolts come loose they can oval out the holes just like the front but won't give you death wobble like the front but will give you a wandering feel. Tires can also be an issue. Off road tires need to be rotated more than car tires do. A 3000 mile schedule or at oil changes is recommended. Poor quality roads can have an impact and will show up more on a jeep with wide tires.

Mods since the pics are....New drag link (there was a tiny bit of slop in the old joints), new ball joints, Rancho control arm relocation brackets (or caster gain), new aftermarket bolt, track bar and sector shaft brace (steering box was visually deflecting a little). All new hardware in control arms. Rear track bar hardware is tight, but I guess I will take apart and visually inspect. Next step is to play with steering box lash

thedirtman

· #24 · Apr 11, 2022

are you running a raised rear track bar bracket on the axle?

Reactions: 1

adamkphillips1

Discussion Starter · #25 · Apr 12, 2022

thedirtman said:
are you running a raised rear track bar bracket on the axle?

No

Reactions: 1

SoK66

· #26 · Apr 12, 2022

Sounds like a caster issue. You mentioned Rancho upper control arm relocation brackets, but I think you meant both control arms are relocated, right? First thing is to get it on an alignment rack and get some readings. Don't take another step until you know the alignment settings.

SoK66

· #27 · Apr 13, 2022

adamkphillips1 said:
No

Dirtman asks a good question. How are the track bars mounted to the axles? Stock brackets or are there relocation brackets?

adamkphillips1

Discussion Starter · #28 · Apr 13, 2022

SoK66 said:
Dirtman asks a good question. How are the track bars mounted to the axles? Stock brackets or are there relocation brackets?

As far as mounting, both front and rear track bars are mounted in the factory locations. Aftermarket adjustable track bars The front is braced (combo track bar/sector shaft brace) on the chassis side and the factory bolt replaced with a shouldered bolt on the chassis side

SoK66

· #29 · Apr 13, 2022

You should have raised track bar mounts on both front & rear axles. The amount of raise should roughly correspond to the amount of lift, though generally the raise in the rear will be about 1" more than the front. The front track bar should be on the same plane as the drag link. If they differ you'll get way squirrely handling.

Post some pics of your track bars.

adamkphillips1

Discussion Starter · #30 · Apr 13, 2022

SoK66 said:
You should have raised track bar mounts on both front & rear axles. The amount of raise should roughly correspond to the amount of lift, though generally the raise in the rear will be about 1" more than the front. The front track bar should be on the same plane as the drag link. If they differ you'll get way squirrely handling.

Post some pics of your track bars.

......Thanks........this is the old drag link, but they are pretty similar. I've always known this, but to me they seem pretty parallel, but they both have bends so it gets a little blurry. Would it make sense to run a string line for both (center of mount to center of mount) and from there adjust the track bar (axle side) end of the string to be fully paralell with the drag link string, measure up from factory track bar mount and determine bracket height requirement off that?....It looks as though the track bar is adjusted all the way in so a raised mount would probably require a new track bar. Do you recommend a supplier for the raised track bar mounts?

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SoK66

· #31 · Apr 13, 2022

adamkphillips1 said:
......Thanks........this is the old drag link, but they are pretty similar. I've always known this, but to me they seem pretty parallel, but they both have bends so it gets a little blurry. Would it make sense to run a string line for both (center of mount to center of mount) and from there adjust the track bar (axle side) end of the string to be fully paralell with the drag link string, measure up from factory track bar mount and determine bracket height requirement off that?....It looks as though the track bar is adjusted all the way in so a raised mount would probably require a new track bar. Do you recommend a supplier for the raised track bar mounts?
View attachment 366334

There's a steeper angle on the track bar than the drag link. They need to be roughly the same or it's going to bump steer a lot, which I suspect is your issue. A raised track bar mount in front would help cure the issue. (Never use a drop pitman on a JK.) Also, the angle on the front & rear track bars should be roughly the same as well, so if you install a front bracket you should install one in the rear, too. Synergy makes great track bar bracket kits for JK.

Reactions: 1

adamkphillips1

Discussion Starter · #32 · Apr 13, 2022

SoK66 said:
There's a steeper angle on the track bar than the drag link. They need to be roughly the same or it's going to bump steer a lot, which I suspect is your issue. A raised track bar mount in front would help cure the issue. (Never use a drop pitman on a JK.) Also, the angle on the front & rear track bars should be roughly the same as well, so if you install a front bracket you should install one in the rear, too. Synergy makes great track bar bracket kits for JK.

Thanks again, but regarding the angles, there is, and there isn't a huge difference in angle due to the bends in each link,. which is why why I consider the string line comparison from joint to joint to be geometrically correct in comparison

SoK66

· #33 · Apr 13, 2022

adamkphillips1 said:
Thanks again, but regarding the angles, there is, and there isn't a huge difference in angle due to the bends in each link,. which is why why I consider the string line comparison from joint to joint to be geometrically correct in comparison

The bends are immaterial. The angles we're concerned with are the difference between a straight line drawn from the frame side mounting point to the axle mounting point on the track bar, vs the straight line drawn from the pitman arm to the steering knuckle on the drag link. Those need to be the same. There's quite a bit of difference on your rig. To reduce the discrepancy you need to raise the track bar mounting point on the axle with a bracket. the angle of the4 front & rear bars need to be roughly the same. All this has to do with raising the roll center of the vehicle to compensate for the lift.

White Elemant

· #34 · Apr 13, 2022

Comparison should be made with the "string method" from joint center to joint center disregarding any bends in the connecting elements. These lines for drag link and track bar should be as aligned as possible. In extreme cases a bar that has a bend in it will flex more than a straight one, but I have not heard this being an issue in Jeeps. Might have an effect if the bar is made from chinesium.

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adamkphillips1

Discussion Starter · #35 · Apr 13, 2022

SoK66 said:
The bends are immaterial. The angles we're concerned with are the difference between a straight line drawn from the frame side mounting point to the axle mounting point on the track bar, vs the straight line drawn from the pitman arm to the steering knuckle on the drag link. Those need to be the same. There's quite a bit of difference on your rig. To reduce the discrepancy you need to raise the track bar mounting point on the axle with a bracket. the angle of the4 front & rear bars need to be roughly the same. All this has to do with raising the roll center of the vehicle to compensate for the lift.

This is exactly why I bought up the bends in the first place. In the picture I posted the track bar and drag link seem to be at different angles. The bends in both bars create a lot of that illusion. I will verify with the string method

SoK66

· #36 · Apr 13, 2022

adamkphillips1 said:
This is exactly why I bought up the bends in the first place. In the picture I posted the track bar and drag link seem to be at different angles. The bends in both bars create a lot of that illusion. I will verify with the string method

you have two issues, excessive angle from frame / pitman to axle & knuckle, and two different angles vis a vis the drag link & track bar. Raising the track bar mount at the axle and flipping the drag liknk cures both. These are common issues when you go beyond about 2.5” lift.

LSantiago

· #37 · Apr 15, 2022

adamkphillips1 said:
Steering just feels lost and white knuckle going down the highway. Its very hard to explain but its borderline terrifying. I've checked everything and replaced a lot, also added support/relocation brackets as described below. I've played with tire pressures ( no noticeable difference from 28 -35 psi). I've made slight improvements with replacing parts and adding brackets but cant get it to feel right and am about to use this POS for target practice!!!!!

2016 JKU lifted by previous owner. I am guessing 3-3 1/2"

35 x 12.5 tires on 20" rims

Aftermarket adjustable track bars ( good shape and axles positioned correctly)

Front track bar bolt replaced and track bar brace and sector shaft brace installed

Factory control arms but Rancho upper control arm relocation brackets installed (RS82103) with upper control arm in the 3rd hole from the top...so caster is well within spec

1/8" Toe in

New tera flex ball joints

New drag link

Falcon 3 setting steering damper

All joints checked for slop by placing my hand across the joint with someone cranking the wheel side to side and no deflection at any joint . Just did this again today

Whilst adjusting my toe I noticed that when I roared the tie rod ( rotation within the range of the joints) it causes both wheels to turn slightly (one direction when I rotate it up and the opposite when I rotate it down down).As stated above there is no deflection across either tie rod end and the only movement is what is designed into the ball. I have a great video but it wont let me upload it.......has anyone got and insight into this?

Have a reputable and experienced 4wd shop check your caster. Do not rely on the bolt position, but rather have them adjust it according to the lift. Typically, not the original specs.

adamkphillips1

Discussion Starter · #38 · Apr 16, 2022

LSantiago said:
Have a reputable and experienced 4wd shop check your caster. Do not rely on the bolt position, but rather have them adjust it according to the lift. Typically, not the original specs.

I tried this over a year ago a place in Clear Lake Tx called the Jeep Slop Shop (specialize in jeep mods) and they didn't have a clue or the inclination to do anything but upsell me a set a of ball joints that weren't even bad to begin with. I agreed to let them do that simply because the ones in there were not greaseable and one was offset, as well as my assumption they, as Jeep specialist's would look deeper into my issues, sadly NOT. As soon as I get my angle gauge back I will check myself. The only reason I mention camber is I am certain I am well beyond recommended at this point and may infact have to back some out to prevent driveline issues ......Camber is not my problem anymore

White Elemant

· #39 · Apr 16, 2022

adamkphillips1 said:
...
The only reason I mention camber is I am certain I am well beyond recommended at this point and may infact have to back some out to prevent driveline issues ......Camber is not my problem anymore

Camber or caster 🤔

Apart from using very special parts, camber is not adjustable in a Wrangler

thedirtman

· #40 · Apr 16, 2022

What shocks are you running?

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