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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Steering just feels lost and white knuckle going down the highway. Its very hard to explain but its borderline terrifying. I've checked everything and replaced a lot, also added support/relocation brackets as described below. I've played with tire pressures ( no noticeable difference from 28 -35 psi). I've made slight improvements with replacing parts and adding brackets but cant get it to feel right and am about to use this POS for target practice!!!!!

  • 2016 JKU lifted by previous owner. I am guessing 3-3 1/2"
  • 35 x 12.5 tires on 20" rims
  • Aftermarket adjustable track bars ( good shape and axles positioned correctly)
  • Front track bar bolt replaced and track bar brace and sector shaft brace installed
  • Factory control arms but Rancho upper control arm relocation brackets installed (RS82103) with upper control arm in the 3rd hole from the top...so caster is well within spec
  • 1/8" Toe in
  • New tera flex ball joints
  • New drag link
  • Falcon 3 setting steering damper

All joints checked for slop by placing my hand across the joint with someone cranking the wheel side to side and no deflection at any joint . Just did this again today

Whilst adjusting my toe I noticed that when I roared the tie rod ( rotation within the range of the joints) it causes both wheels to turn slightly (one direction when I rotate it up and the opposite when I rotate it down down).As stated above there is no deflection across either tie rod end and the only movement is what is designed into the ball. I have a great video but it wont let me upload it.......has anyone got and insight into this?
 

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Steering just feels lost and white knuckle going down the highway. Its very hard to explain but its borderline terrifying. I've checked everything and replaced a lot, also added support/relocation brackets as described below. I've played with tire pressures ( no noticeable difference from 28 -35 psi). I've made slight improvements with replacing parts and adding brackets but cant get it to feel right and am about to use this POS for target practice!!!!!

  • 2016 JKU lifted by previous owner. I am guessing 3-3 1/2"
  • 35 x 12.5 tires on 20" rims
  • Aftermarket adjustable track bars ( good shape and axles positioned correctly)
  • Front track bar bolt replaced and track bar brace and sector shaft brace installed
  • Factory control arms but Rancho upper control arm relocation brackets installed (RS82103) with upper control arm in the 3rd hole from the top...so caster is well within spec
  • 1/8" Toe in
  • New tera flex ball joints
  • New drag link
  • Falcon 3 setting steering damper

All joints checked for slop by placing my hand across the joint with someone cranking the wheel side to side and no deflection at any joint . Just did this again today

Whilst adjusting my toe I noticed that when I roared the tie rod ( rotation within the range of the joints) it causes both wheels to turn slightly (one direction when I rotate it up and the opposite when I rotate it down down).As stated above there is no deflection across either tie rod end and the only movement is what is designed into the ball. I have a great video but it wont let me upload it.......has anyone got and insight into this?
When I replaced my ball joints it was 500 miles of the most terrifying driving on the planet. I replaced my OEM's with Synergyl The directions stated it would take about 500 miles to properly seat. Not sure if this is typical of all ball joints. It was the worst ever!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Steering just feels lost and white knuckle going down the highway. Its very hard to explain but its borderline terrifying. I've checked everything and replaced a lot, also added support/relocation brackets as described below. I've played with tire pressures ( no noticeable difference from 28 -35 psi). I've made slight improvements with replacing parts and adding brackets but cant get it to feel right and am about to use this POS for target practice!!!!!

  • 2016 JKU lifted by previous owner. I am guessing 3-3 1/2"
  • 35 x 12.5 tires on 20" rims
  • Aftermarket adjustable track bars ( good shape and axles positioned correctly)
  • Front track bar bolt replaced and track bar brace and sector shaft brace installed
  • Factory control arms but Rancho upper control arm relocation brackets installed (RS82103) with upper control arm in the 3rd hole from the top...so caster is well within spec
  • 1/8" Toe in
  • New tera flex ball joints
  • New drag link
  • Falcon 3 setting steering damper

All joints checked for slop by placing my hand across the joint with someone cranking the wheel side to side and no deflection at any joint . Just did this again today

Whilst adjusting my toe I noticed that when I roared the tie rod ( rotation within the range of the joints) it causes both wheels to turn slightly (one direction when I rotate it up and the opposite when I rotate it down down).As stated above there is no deflection across either tie rod end and the only movement is what is designed into the ball. I have a great video but it wont let me upload it.......has anyone got and insight into this?
When I replaced my ball joints it was 500 miles of the most terrifying driving on the planet. I replaced my OEM's with Synergyl The directions stated it would take about 500 miles to properly seat. Not sure if this is typical of all ball joints. It was the worst ever!
I've heard that but have a couple of thousand miles on mine and honestly felt no difference between the old ones, the new Teraflex and the broken in Teraflex....Each of the listed mods from the front track bar bolt replacement to the end of my list had very little effect. The sector shaft brace was the most noticeable, but still didn't get there....The only logical conclusion I can come to is that even though the tie rod ends are "good"...the tie rod rotating up and down is the root cause. My latest problem is that I have no faith a brand new one wont do the same exact thing. I'm considering getting a bar built with Hein joints and bending to match the factory bar
 

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I've heard that but have a couple of thousand miles on mine and honestly felt no difference between the old ones, the new Teraflex and the broken in Teraflex....Each of the listed mods from the front track bar bolt replacement to the end of my list had very little effect. The sector shaft brace was the most noticeable, but still didn't get there....The only logical conclusion I can come to is that even though the tie rod ends are "good"...the tie rod rotating up and down is the root cause. My latest problem is that I have no faith a brand new one wont do the same exact thing. I'm considering getting a bar built with Hein joints and bending to match the factory bar
What about the steering knuckle? On my drivers side the hole got wallowed out. The tire movement looks similar to bad tie rod ends. Its a very sublte movement. In a video on my youtube channel at about 18:45 minutes into the video you can see the movement.
 

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For some setups the "standard" 1/8th of an inch toe in might not work. I've seen instructions telling to use small amount of toe out to get proper ride quality.

The 35x12.5 on a 20 inch wheel are basically just asking for trouble... Huge tire with low sidewall will be very tricky to dial in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
For some setups the "standard" 1/8th of an inch toe in might not work. I've seen instructions telling to use small amount of toe out to get proper ride quality.

The 35x12.5 on a 20 inch wheel are basically just asking for trouble... Huge tire with low sidewall will be very tricky to dial in.
Thanks, I hadn't considered that as I would have expected to identify that issue as I was doing the joint integrity checks .What's the name of the video?. Having less sidewall will do nothing but improve highway handling over say a 17" rim. The same logic as high performance cars having larger rims/shorter tire walls. There were 33's on 17's before this package and it was worse
 

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If you are asking about my video... I am Jeep Momma on YouTube.
Top 5 Jeep Suspension Fails [How To Detect]
At first I thought the issue was the tie rod ends. I call Steer Smarts as I have the Yeti Steering system. They said no way it was their tie rod ends and for me to check the knuckle. They were spot on. I posted a picture of the steering knuckle on another post. I can't find it now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If you are asking about my video... I am Jeep Momma on YouTube.
Top 5 Jeep Suspension Fails [How To Detect]
At first I thought the issue was the tie rod ends. I call Steer Smarts as I have the Yeti Steering system. They said no way it was their tie rod ends and for me to check the knuckle. They were spot on. I posted a picture of the steering knuckle on another post. I can't find it now.
Tammy....I went to your you tube page and there are probably 100 videos'
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yeah... 400 ish...

Here's the link...
Tammy....good video, thanks. Not my problem though. I performed all those tests yesterday (for about the 8th time) and only when tweaking my toe did I notice the tie rod flop and subsequently how the flop causes a slight left/right steering input as I rotate it through its ark. I have considered loosening the adjusting collar and clocking the TRE's in opposite planes such that it would limit flop, just not sure how long the TRE's would last with that particular loading applied to them
 

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Tammy....good video, thanks. Not my problem though. I performed all those tests yesterday (for about the 8th time) and only when tweaking my toe did I notice the tie rod flop and subsequently how the flop causes a slight left/right steering input as I rotate it through its ark. I have considered loosening the adjusting collar and clocking the TRE's in opposite planes such that it would limit flop, just not sure how long the TRE's would last with that particular loading applied to them
I am out of ideas!!! Keep us posted.
 

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The thing with low profile tires and wranglers is, that the double straight axle setup really is not something one would go by if handling is of importance. Especially a straight axle up front plain and simple sucks. Add high lift, draglink and track bar not beign fully aligned, and the low profile tires no longer are an advantage.

The vid I saw the instruction on toe out was one of the light brite nation product plugs. That couple is a handful, but I still kinda like to watch their stuff 😂

I'll try and find the exact episode and I'll drop the link here.

Edit: here you go:
 

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The thing with low profile tires and wranglers is, that the double straight axle setup really is not something one would go by if handling is of importance. Especially a straight axle up front plain and simple sucks. Add high lift, draglink and track bar not beign fully aligned, and the low profile tires no longer are an advantage.

The vid I saw the instruction on toe out was one of the light brite nation product plugs. That couple is a handful, but I still kinda like to watch their stuff 😂

I'll try and find the exact episode and I'll drop the link here.
They are the ones promoting bad wheeling practices which in turn gets our trails shut down. The environmentalists use these videos to get trails shut down and is happening in Colorado and Arizona. It's a shame people keep supporting these two.
 

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They are the ones promoting bad wheeling practices which in turn gets our trails shut down. The environmentalists use these videos to get trails shut down and is happening in Colorado and Arizona. It's a shame people keep supporting these two.
Environmentalist will dig up shit everywhere. Not sure how Lite Brite's wheeling is any different from any other channels I follow. I think they just are an easy target for reasons I better not get into, not in this thread anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The thing with low profile tires and wranglers is, that the double straight axle setup really is not something one would go by if handling is of importance. Especially a straight axle up front plain and simple sucks. Add high lift, draglink and track bar not beign fully aligned, and the low profile tires no longer are an advantage.

The vid I saw the instruction on toe out was one of the light brite nation product plugs. That couple is a handful, but I still kinda like to watch their stuff 😂

I'll try and find the exact episode and I'll drop the link here.

Edit: here you go:
I get your point on the not being a handling vehicle, but the same logic still applies, less sidewall will create a harsher ride, but also more precise in terms of less sidewall flex. With my 20 x 35 set up I still have 7 1/2" of sidewall. This isn't my problem. I wish I could figure out how to attach the video I took yesterday of the wheel reacting to me rotating the tie rod.....Its either this or the steering box. I was hoping to find others that had narrowed down their steering issues to the same issue. I would appreciate the video if you can find it
 

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Environmentalist will dig up shit everywhere. Not sure how Lite Brite's wheeling is any different from any other channels I follow. I think they just are an easy target for reasons I better not get into, not in this thread anyway.
There are a lot of responsible YouTubers out there that don't need to tear up the trails to get views. They promote responsible wheeling practices. I certainly don't tear up the trails.

Not sure why you say they are easy targets? Cause they like to break stuff?
 

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They are the ones promoting bad wheeling practices which in turn gets our trails shut down. The environmentalists use these videos to get trails shut down and is happening in Colorado and Arizona. It's a shame people keep supporting these two.
 

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I get your point on the not being a handling vehicle, but the same logic still applies, less sidewall will create a harsher ride, but also more precise in terms of less sidewall flex. With my 20 x 35 set up I still have 7 1/2" of sidewall. This isn't my problem. I wish I could figure out how to attach the video I took yesterday of the wheel reacting to me rotating the tie rod.....Its either this or the steering box. I was hoping to find others that had narrowed down their steering issues to the same issue. I would appreciate the video if you can find it
I'm still gonna say the low(ish) profile of the tires does not help. To get the load rating it has, the sidewall will need to be pretty stiff. That will, of course, relay the road "feel" much better to the steering wheel, but only if the steering components are engineered for good handling. Wranglers' are not...

Consider this: even the F1 engineers were really up to a challenge when for this season they went from 13" ro 18" wheels. The high profile tire used to be a major componen of the suspension, and taking that away ment a lot of re-engineering.

Suspension on Wranglers is not designed for low profile tires. I do realize 35x12.5 on a 20 is "only" about 315/60R20 in euro size, but it is relatively low profile for a Wrangler, so whatever it is that is off in your setup, will be magnified by the wheel/tire combo.

Edit: I gotta say I like the look of 20" wheels on a Wrangler, if the tire is big enough like yours 👍
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I'm still gonna say the low(ish) profile of the tires does not help. To get the load rating it has, the sidewall will need to be pretty stiff. That will, of course, relay the road "feel" much better to the steering wheel, but only if the steering components are engineered for good handling. Wranglers' are not...

Consider this: even the F1 engineers were really up to a challenge when for this season they went from 13" ro 18" wheels. The high profile tire used to be a major componen of the suspension, and taking that away ment a lot of re-engineering.

Suspension on Wranglers is not designed for low profile tires. I do realize 35x12.5 on a 20 is "only" about 315/60R20 in euro size, but it is relatively low profile for a Wrangler, so whatever it is that is off in your setup, will be magnified by the wheel/tire combo.

Edit: I gotta say I like the look of 20" wheels on a Wrangler, if the tire is big enough like yours 👍
I appreciate your input and agree and your observations on low profile tires are logical especially in terms of the tire being an integral suspension component that will transfer more road feel and create a somewhat harsher ride. This however isn't my problem, I am looking to gain road feel and precise feedback so I can hopefully keep it between the lines on the highway. I had 33 x 17's on it last year and had exactly the same issue. (33 x 17 = 8" tall sidewall.....35 x 20= 7 1/2" tall sidewall). I know its not applicable with these POS's but another benefit of reduced sidewall is the reduction in un-sprung weight that is desirable in a performance scenario.
 

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I would expect you need a drag link flip up front and raised rear track bar bracket. Get an alignment at a good shop that specializes in 4x4's and get a print out. Camber is somehting that can get out of hand on a built jeep. Got any photos showing the front and rear set ups? Also something that is free is to loosen up all the control arms and track bars, shake the suspension up and down and then re-tourqe all the link bolts. You may also have an issue with your steering box. Do you have a drop pitman arm?
 
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