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post #1 of 131 Old 06-24-2012, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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Arrow Poison Spyder Cage Install

Mods.... I hope that its ok that I started this thread in Writeup. We got lots of questions and comments in the Texas section so I thought this info would be helpfull to a larger reader base.


We did the test fit of this cage a few days ago. MANY thanks to Mike (goodysgotacuda). Also thanks to other friends for the help.

The plan is to use the PS cage in the front and basicaly use the Polly weld in for the rear. I'm also going to copy Co4Lo's idea of welding in a thicker bar that runs from side to side (inside the speaker box).

I'm going to post a photo essay of the install with some info on my softtop fit. Goody will chime in with some of the issues that we had. The intent is to help others who are going to install this product.

Thanks to Marcus at River City Offroad for the good price and outstanding service.

I also have to give a big thanks to Poision Spyder. They have been helpful and very accessible and willing to address our conserns on a couple if items. EDIT: PS seems to have washed their hands of this thread. Never really addressed some of the issues and a phone call to the ‘designer’ was not returned. No worries, we will resolve the one outstanding issue that I have ourselvs. I read on a thread (different JK site) that they are making some changes. But the template issue was not mentioned and I think that was the biggest problem. But its all good. The thing is in now.

Old sport cage bars and padding all pulled off.



We had to notch the aluminum dash sub-frame a bit on the drivers side so that the vertical side plate would fit.


Both side plates had at least one bolt hole that was threadded a bit crooked. So you would want to check that during the test fit. You might have to make the hole in the pinch seam a bit larger in this case.


The flat plate made heavy contact with the dash sub-frame on the pass side. We trimmed a pretty good sized chunk off. CAUTION – watch the wiring harness behind the area to be cut.



08 2Door Red Rubicon. Rock Krawler 5.5 Longarm Coilover, Polly rear Coilovers. AEV hood & wheels, 37"KM2s, JE Reel 1350 shafts, 5.38 Yukon gears, Superior axles, Shrockworks stubby, Fab Fours rear, sPod, Rebel Offroad brakes, Warn winch and lots more.

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Last edited by TEXASKEV; 11-29-2012 at 12:12 AM.
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post #2 of 131 Old 06-24-2012, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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Making progress!


Pretty much installed after several hours of work. Now to pull it all out for paint.


Back in the garage with a bed full of parts!



Two 1/4" plate parts came with the kit but we had no idea what they are for. The directions didn't show or mention them. We finally decided that they simply are not part of this cage install so Mike has some 1/4" parts to practice welding on.


Next step is to clean and paint the parts.

08 2Door Red Rubicon. Rock Krawler 5.5 Longarm Coilover, Polly rear Coilovers. AEV hood & wheels, 37"KM2s, JE Reel 1350 shafts, 5.38 Yukon gears, Superior axles, Shrockworks stubby, Fab Fours rear, sPod, Rebel Offroad brakes, Warn winch and lots more.

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Last edited by TEXASKEV; 06-24-2012 at 09:54 PM.
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post #3 of 131 Old 06-24-2012, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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Got everything primed and ready to go.



Red paint is drying and should be ready to go in the AM.


08 2Door Red Rubicon. Rock Krawler 5.5 Longarm Coilover, Polly rear Coilovers. AEV hood & wheels, 37"KM2s, JE Reel 1350 shafts, 5.38 Yukon gears, Superior axles, Shrockworks stubby, Fab Fours rear, sPod, Rebel Offroad brakes, Warn winch and lots more.

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Last edited by TEXASKEV; 06-24-2012 at 09:25 PM.
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post #4 of 131 Old 06-24-2012, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
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Did the final install, since the holes were all drilled and we knew the best order to put things together, it went pretty well. I still have touch up paint and plastic trim to cut and reinstall. I'll post pics of that over the next few weeks.








08 2Door Red Rubicon. Rock Krawler 5.5 Longarm Coilover, Polly rear Coilovers. AEV hood & wheels, 37"KM2s, JE Reel 1350 shafts, 5.38 Yukon gears, Superior axles, Shrockworks stubby, Fab Fours rear, sPod, Rebel Offroad brakes, Warn winch and lots more.

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Last edited by TEXASKEV; 07-14-2012 at 03:03 AM.
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post #5 of 131 Old 06-24-2012, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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08 2Door Red Rubicon. Rock Krawler 5.5 Longarm Coilover, Polly rear Coilovers. AEV hood & wheels, 37"KM2s, JE Reel 1350 shafts, 5.38 Yukon gears, Superior axles, Shrockworks stubby, Fab Fours rear, sPod, Rebel Offroad brakes, Warn winch and lots more.

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Last edited by TEXASKEV; 06-24-2012 at 09:45 PM.
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post #6 of 131 Old 06-24-2012, 09:18 PM Thread Starter
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My 08 has an almost new top so it fits tight. When I have the top rigged the windshield frame gets flexed back and the leading edge of the soft top top rides up on top of the frame. No matter if door surounds are used or not.

Another JK owner with this cage and a softop has reported (on the install thread in the Texas section) that he has no issues. So maybe they beefed up the frame in later years. Maybe my JK is a mutant. Or maybe this is an issue for some guys. I'm talking to PS about it and they are studying this.

As for me, I think that goody and I are going to use the bracket from the stock bar that runs from the rear and bolts to the windshield. We'll cut it off the old bar and weld it to the PS cage.






I still have some paint work to do and the job of putting all of the plastic parts back in. I'll post more pics once its all completed.

08 2Door Red Rubicon. Rock Krawler 5.5 Longarm Coilover, Polly rear Coilovers. AEV hood & wheels, 37"KM2s, JE Reel 1350 shafts, 5.38 Yukon gears, Superior axles, Shrockworks stubby, Fab Fours rear, sPod, Rebel Offroad brakes, Warn winch and lots more.

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Last edited by TEXASKEV; 07-04-2012 at 02:18 AM.
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post #7 of 131 Old 06-24-2012, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXASKEV View Post
place holder for more pics 6
You do realize that you can add/edit your first post with as many pictures as you want if you just drop them in from Photobucket, no?
Anyway, nice work!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Co4Lo View Post
You do realize that you can add/edit your first post with as many pictures as you want if you just drop them in from Photobucket, no?
Anyway, nice work!
Dang, I did not know that! Thanks for the tip

08 2Door Red Rubicon. Rock Krawler 5.5 Longarm Coilover, Polly rear Coilovers. AEV hood & wheels, 37"KM2s, JE Reel 1350 shafts, 5.38 Yukon gears, Superior axles, Shrockworks stubby, Fab Fours rear, sPod, Rebel Offroad brakes, Warn winch and lots more.

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post #9 of 131 Old 06-24-2012, 09:55 PM
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Are those two unknown plates the ones that go under the body as a crush/shear plate where the vertical component mounts to the floor pan?

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Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
Running 37's as a daily driver is dumb

Last edited by coilrod; 06-24-2012 at 09:57 PM. Reason: component, not tube
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post #10 of 131 Old 06-24-2012, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coilrod View Post
Are those two unknown plates the ones that go under the body as a crush/shear plate where the vertical component mounts to the floor pan?
Can we see a pic from underneath?

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post #11 of 131 Old 06-24-2012, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahara mist View Post
Can we see a pic from underneath?
I figured that's what they were for but when you see the bottom - no way.

08 2Door Red Rubicon. Rock Krawler 5.5 Longarm Coilover, Polly rear Coilovers. AEV hood & wheels, 37"KM2s, JE Reel 1350 shafts, 5.38 Yukon gears, Superior axles, Shrockworks stubby, Fab Fours rear, sPod, Rebel Offroad brakes, Warn winch and lots more.

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post #12 of 131 Old 06-24-2012, 10:21 PM
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Thanks I still haven't figured it out either. Cage looks nice and professonal.

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post #13 of 131 Old 06-24-2012, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sahara mist View Post
Thanks I still haven't figured it out either. Cage looks nice and professonal.
It is. And now that its installed its very solid. The windshield frame issue that I have (not sure if anyone else has this issue or not) isn't a huge problem for me. Goodysgotacuda can weld so I'm good

This thread should help others do this install. That's my hope anyway.

08 2Door Red Rubicon. Rock Krawler 5.5 Longarm Coilover, Polly rear Coilovers. AEV hood & wheels, 37"KM2s, JE Reel 1350 shafts, 5.38 Yukon gears, Superior axles, Shrockworks stubby, Fab Fours rear, sPod, Rebel Offroad brakes, Warn winch and lots more.

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Last edited by TEXASKEV; 06-25-2012 at 12:39 AM.
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post #14 of 131 Old 06-25-2012, 12:07 AM
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It is. And now that its installed its very solid. The windshield frame issue that I have (not sure if anyone else has or not) isn't a huge problem for me. Goodysgotacuda can weld so I'm good

This thread should help others do this install. That's my hope anyway.
Weld? I thought this was a bolt in cage?

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post #15 of 131 Old 06-25-2012, 12:22 AM
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Weld? I thought this was a bolt in cage?

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I think he means Goody can weld in a bracket to reduce the windshield flex if PS doesn't come up with a solution.

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post #16 of 131 Old 06-25-2012, 12:32 AM
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I think he means Goody can weld in a bracket to reduce the windshield flex if PS doesn't come up with a solution.
Thanks.

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post #17 of 131 Old 06-25-2012, 12:34 AM
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TEXASKEV, the cage looks great. Thanks for the pictures.

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post #18 of 131 Old 06-25-2012, 04:35 AM
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I am going to give my detailed opinion on the install, design and just general thoughts I have regarding the cage. First, some background on myself, I was a full time Master Technician at BMW in Las Vegas, Master ASE technician, I’ve done the work to my JK…as well as countless others and I am also a 3rd year mechanical engineering student at UNT. To say the least, I feel I am more than qualified to install this cage. Lack of mechanical experience or general problem solving is not the category I fall under. My take on the Poison Spyder JK cage is the following. My initial response to looking at the cage, was it was the best one out there. Integrated floor mount, DOM tubing, nice inter-locking joints and backed by Poison Spyder’s reputation. As I have mentioned, Kevin and I ran into numerous problems when installing this cage, these problems I will explore throughout this post. Most of is post is going to be opinion based on what I have seen in the past, what I feel could be improved upon, what I feel may be flat out wrong, and what I thought was good. I will do my best to make a claim and support the claim the best I can if it is something I feel is wrong with the cage.

As far as cages go in a JK, I have installed two and lent a hand in a 3rd. My own rig has an OR-FAB sport cage with the floor mounts, along with the Poly Performance rear weld-in cage. Most of the time when I refer to how OR-FAB does it, it’s because that is what I know from personal experience and I can make a direct and accurate comparison to it.

I suppose I will start from step one of the instructions and just comment on our experience with the installation.


Starting on page one is the packing list of parts, all of the parts were there along with the hardware. However there were two mysterious plates that could not be identified and still cannot be identified. They mimic the floor plate identically, however there is no place to install them. Kevin and I were unable to find the location of these brackets; they are neither on the packing list nor anywhere in the instruction sheet. Currently according to SpyderSales…he is still awaiting a response regarding where these plates actually go.

Moving on, page two starts out with a tool list, which I had everything that was required. However, the listing for “drill motor with ½” bits” is a bit vague. You end up needing a 3/8”, 7/16” and a ½” drill bit to install this cage. I am not really sure why they aren’t listed in the initial “tools needed” list. Also consider the ½” drill is used for the floor plate, which means a standard length ½” drill bit will make it very interesting getting your drill under the dash. A right angle drill is going to make life much easier when it comes to the forward floor plate holes.. The images in the instructions show a normal size pneumatic drill, without magic or trickery…I don’t see how they were able to get the ½” drill bit straight over where the required holes needed to be under the dash. Even using a small Makita drill, it was all we could to do to get the bit to go where we needed it…locating the actual floor plate will be discussed later.

Pages three and half of four is discussing stock component disassembly. None of which was a problem for us, I had done this quite a few times and the process went quickly. The one thing I did notice was there was no mention about the distance between the windshield and soundbar. OR-FAB has the installer measure this distance and return it to that distance after the installation has been completed. River Raider, Poly Performance, Rock Hard and OR-FAB all keep some sort of mounting tab at the top of the windshied; however Poison Spyder does not. (Did you notice I mentioned every JK sport cage manufacture as of right now?)

Quote:
OR-FAB installation instructions:

Step 12 is where the fun begins, the “template”. I expect some feedback on this process from others that have installed this cage. This is how it worked out for us. The template included is for the three A-pillar bolts. First I will discuss why these three bolts are so vital to the entire cage. This cage bolts into the A-pillar using three 3/8”-24 Grade 8 bolts to locate the cage base on each side. These holes should be located as precisely as possible, they are the most important in a trouble-free installation of the cage! The tube joints can be off, they can throw off fitment to the dash, they can throw off how well the floor plate meets the floor…it’s extremely important to locate these six holes in the Jeep. Now I will discuss the process for locating these holes, the short version. Locate the ½” plate with three holes in it and figure out which way is up with a tape measure [easy]. After you do that, there is a notch on the A-pillar, take a tape measure and go 4-1/2” up and mark it. Hold the plate up at the mark and move it in, eh, about 1/16” of an inch and perfectly parallel with the A-pillar [go ahead and eyeball that], mark your holes and drill it. Sound precise?
Now you may be wondering why I have an issue with that, and I will explain. First off there is a notch, yes, it’s easy to locate. Now when measuring this 4-1/2” distance with a tape measure, is Poison Spyder measuring from the bottom of the notch? Measuring the top of the notch? Measuring the center of the notch? What about the measuring the actual beginning of the tape or the end of the tape measure? It is very easy to get these holes 1/8”-1/4” off, remember I said how important they are? Now that isn’t the only place for error, the next place is that 1/16” in from the edge. This is easy enough but keeping it perfectly parallel the edge, 4-1/2” up, while 1/16” in and then marking it can be a bit of a handful. The entire time I wondered why is this process so over-complicated? These holes are vital to the cage installation, yet the potential for error is huge! At this point you may be thinking, alright self-proclaimed guru what would you do differently? Well I’d certainly start by take notes from OR-FAB. They include a laser cut, no questions template. See how much easier this would be??

Quote:
While I have the image here, also take note that with the OR-FAB cage with the floor mount you get 5 - 3/8” bolts on each side of the Jeep. The Poison Spyder is 3 per side. Also the OR-FAB has ~1/2” of thread engagement for those five bolts, where-as Poison Spyder only has threads in the 3/16” plate steel. This is a significant difference in thread engagement, let alone bolt count. However this is not a comparison thread…therefore my other recommended solution for a template would be something that bolts into the top factory door hinge threads. This would eliminate error and also act as a drill guide and take advantage of the already removed hinges. Since one or two of the holes we had to drill lined up just off center to a pinch seam spot weld, when our bit hit that spot weld it kicked the bit off center and hogged out the hole. Was it because our template was too high/low, too far inside/outside from the vague instruction location? Possibly…but you now know how it is possible to get that template off.


,

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post #19 of 131 Old 06-25-2012, 04:36 AM
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,


Moving on, after cussing the template we had three holes drilled! Well, then we hit another stop in the process. The next step claims to put that ½” template on the inside of the pinch seam and “hold it” there by sticking the three 3/8” bolts into it. Well that works okay, just don’t touch it, or try to wedge an A-pillar cage mount next to…ah hell…the next step is to just “carefully” install the a-pillar. After dropping the ½” plate a half-a-dozen times, using some crafty interior plastic tool work and another set of hands, the A-pillar was in….Well, it went in until it hit the dash frame. If you’ve read the instructions, you will notice nothing about clearancing the dash frame. After looking at the instructions, looking at the Jeep, looking at the instructions and then looking at the Jeep…we determined the dash frame needed to be cut, despite the instructions just not including that little tidbit of information. Once again I went back to my OR-FAB roots and cut the same locations they call for. After fighting with the A-pillar and ½” plate again, it fit!...Well then holes in the A-pillar were not dead on, apparently my interpretation of the “template” did not match theirs, resulting in requiring wallowed out holes. We got one bolt in, then the second one in, the 3rd one was no go. It kept trying to cross thread. It was now time for a break.
Yet again we pulled the A-pillar back out and inspected the threads. They were good starting threads, bolts went right in, I ran a chase through them, no problem…That was until we determined they weren’t tapped straight. Now that was a problem, as you can see, there is a straight tapped bolt behind this one. It’s definitely crooked.



Now if you have been following along, for this bolt you will recall we had a 3/8” hole through the pinch seam…which was off, that had a ½” plate behind it, that now has crooked threads. The problem with that is it requires quite a bit of “wallering out” holes to now get the crooked threaded bolt to fit. This is not a very exciting process when installing a sport cage’s artery hardware…After all that, the three bolts were in!

Now we are on to step #25, the footplate. The instructions read:

Quote:
“At the foot of the A-Pillar Assembly, use a bar clamp to make sure the bottom end of the A-Pillar is snug against the side of the foot well (pushed away from the center of the Jeep). “
Which is how it’s supposed to go, however do you recall where I mentioned how important those three bolts were on each side? Well that’s come up again. Those three bolts that were a pain before also affected the clearance between the floor plate and the floorboard. Had those three bolts been more accurately described or a proper template provided, we wouldn’t have had too much of a problem here. The next step calls to do the following:

Quote:
“Make sure that the bolt holes of the previously placed Large and Small A-Pillar Foot Plate are correctly aligned with the four holes in the foot of the A-Pillar Assembly. Drill each hole location with a 1/2” bit. After each hole is drilled, temporarily insert a supplied 1/2-20 X 3 Gr8 Hex Head Cap Screw into the hole to keep the foot from walking slightly while drilling the remaining holes.”
Now here is where the floor plate got fun, getting a clamp on the floor plate was do-able. What was a complete pain was lining up the two small plates under the floor plate when the clearance was too small between the footplate and floorboard to begin with. This required somewhat starting the plates under the footplate, clamping it, and then taking a punch to knock the small plates into alignment. This was a painstakingly slow process. Not only was this problem caused by the three holes not being aligned as they should, but these plates really should have just been welded to the bottom of the footplate to begin with. There is no reason, other than to speed up manufacturing, to not weld these to the floor plate. I should have just gone ahead and done it, I would have spent less time rather than jacking around trying to get them aligned.

What this step also lacks to mention is actually getting the drill bit to the holes. The two holes closest to the rear of the Jeep weren’t much of a problem, where things got tight was the forward two holes, since they are basically under the dash. Trying to fit a regulator size ½” drill bit with a small drill under the dash wasn’t a reasonable option for drilling the hole. You also can’t get a good view of it to try to get an accurate center punched or starting hole made while the footplate is installed. Yet again I will call on poor hole location/templates as being the cause of more problems. They also lack to mention where the two different length ½” bolts are supposed to go. Apparently the longer bolts go through a small channel under the floor with no sort of compression sleeve in the middle. Which basically makes those two bolts completely useless since if the floor distorts in either direction the bolt will not remain under tension.

After we had fought crooked threaded bolts, holes we couldn’t get a bit on, tolerances too close on the floor, poor template location/description, vague bolt descriptions on the floor plates…from there, the problems seemed to have subsided. We were on to installing the tubes. With some finesse, a little ratchet strap action and some c-clamps, we were able to get all of the tubes installed to complete the cage. The only concern I have with that process is they provide three 7/16”x2-1/2” bolts that are not fully threaded for the streamer bar. The center hole falls in line with a preexisting hole in the sound bar, making it not possible to tighten that bolt. I am assuming I am missing something, that just seems pretty obvious.



After that, things went without mentionable trouble, the clamps are very nice and interlock for a very tight fit. The clamp design is very nice once you get them flushed up. The cage install was now complete.

--Install Complete—


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Last edited by Goodysgotacuda; 06-25-2012 at 04:40 AM.
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post #20 of 131 Old 06-25-2012, 04:37 AM
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--Design Thoughts—

Templates – As you may have picked up on this, I am not impressed with the template design for the a-pillars. I have mentioned it and you have read about my reasoning, the installation was troublesome for us and the trouble started here. The lack of an accurate template can completely cripple this install and hinder progress very easily. I’d highly suggest this be improved.

Windshield Support – As I mentioned in the beginning, every other sport cage manufacture has a provision to retain some sort of upper windshield support. The windshield is held in by the lower 12 hinge bolts, however is located more precisely by the upper mounts. Poison Spyder decided to completely remove this upper support for the windshield. This can lead to improper door gaps, excessive movement of the windshield, air leaks as well as water leaks. I inquired about this concern to SpyderSales [Timmah]:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post
Ok thanks, I did have another question regarding the windshield positioning. This is not vital to the installation, but rather a design question. Perhaps one of the engineers can chime in.

I have an OR-FAB cage in mine, so that is what I initially refer to when looking at cages. OR-FAB specifically calls out for measuring the distance between the top of the windshield and the sound bar. This specification is then transferred back to the original position once the cage is installed. This assures the windshield and hard/soft top have the same sealing surfaces as before as well as the door gap remains the same. You would notice that once all 12 of the lower windshield bolts are loosened and the upper bolts are removed, the pitch of the windshield can change dramatically. OR-FAB shows a bit of emphasis on this process and it's importance:

Note step #5 on pg.2 and #5 on pg.9 for my reference to this procedure. [May also want to note their "no question" type template for the a-pillar bolts on pg.5]

http://www.orfab.com/instructions/82300.pdf

Given that, I noticed that Poly Performance retains the factory location and support of the top portion of the windshield; as does OR-FAB, RockHard and River Raider (basically, everyone else). I was surprised to find that the Poison Spyder does not have a provision for locating the windshield at it's upper mounts. I was just curious as to why everyone else would consider this and incorporate it in their designs, but Poison Spyder has not.

Sorry for all of the questions, it's the engineering student part of me.

I received the following response back from SpyderSales:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpyderSales View Post
Okay . . . I have an answer for you straight from the boss. The reason our cage does not tie into the windshield is for ascetic [assuming he meant aesthetic] 0 reasons.
As you know, when you are running the factory cage, it is a structural member, but when you switch to the Spyder Cage, the windshield no longer needs to bear the load of the front of the cage.
If you ever wanted to fold down your windshield with other cages, you would have those protruding brackets from the top.
Timmay
This response basically says, that you do not have to support the windshield any longer and that these brackets aesthetically do not look good. I’ll pause and allow you to ponder that…So apparently Poly Performance, OR-FAB, RockHard, and River Raider are all wasting time, effort, money and materials and that there is no need for not cool looking brackets. I personally find that a bit annoying, however I will leave that up to you to decide what you think. I will also throw out there how many people actually fold their windshield down on a JK on a remotely regular basis? 1 out of 1,000? 5,000? 20,000? How many of that figure actually have an aftermarket cage?...Hint: The numbers are very small.

Pinch Seam Bolts – I do have somewhat of a concern regarding the thread engagement of the pinch seam bolts. Earlier I did mention there were three 3/8-24 Grade 8 fasteners, where-as the OR-FAB has five per side. That was one major difference. The bolt count is a bit concerning, however in addition to that the actual amount of threads present is not very many. Now hopefully an engineer can correct me on this since I have no taken the proper courses yet to determine how much these threads will hold up to, so I may be completely wrong on this. I hope I am.
However the threads for the three bolts per side are only 3/16” plate deep. This is a hardened Grade 8 fastener into common mild steel plate, certainly the bolt is much harder than the fastener, making the plate need to have a good amount of threads to make up for the difference in materials.

A 3/8”-24 nut is 0.328” thick, which is 21/64 of an inch (roughly 57% thicker than the tapped 3/16” plate provided). At 24 threads per inch, the 3/16” plate can make a total of 4.5 revolutions of thread engagement in weaker material. At 24 threads per inch, the 3/8”-24 nut can make a total of 7.9 revolutions of similar/Grade 8 material. Something about that doesn’t seem to add up, however I will leave that up for discussion with those that are more educated on the topic. It seems very undersized, let alone it uses four less total fasteners than the OR-FAB.


.

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Last edited by Goodysgotacuda; 06-25-2012 at 06:15 AM.
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post #21 of 131 Old 06-25-2012, 04:37 AM
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--Post Install--

Now in Poison Spyder’s good karma bank, they did PM us the contact information for Shad in case we ran into any problems during the installation. However since the install was on Father’s day, and we pretty much knew what the problem was once those holes were drilled, we did not contact or bother him. Unfortunately I don’t feel there is much he could have done at that point, we were well on our way to working through the installation.

After the installation and a day of battle with this cage, I sent a message to Larry McRae, the owner of Poison Spyder. This message was sent on 6/24/12, relayed through SpyderSales on that Monday 6/25/12 and as of now I really haven’t gotten any sort of response out of it. Here is the exact message:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda
Hi Larry,

This is Mike Goodman, aka GoodysGotaCuda over on JKOwners. I installed one of your JK 2dr cages this morning and wanted to just fill you in on our experience. Just some background on myself; I am an ASE and BMW Master Technician and 3rd year Mechanical Engineering student at UNT. I've also worked on every part of a JK at one point or another, have done a few cage installs. I'm fairly seasoned when it comes to working on and modifying things.

One of the first concerns I had with the cage was the main a-pillar frames. Out of the six 3/8"-24 bolts, three of them were tapped straight...making the other three crooked in one direction or the other. Making those three holes a bear and causing us to "wallow" out our straight holes to get fitment.

From there, I think we had the most trouble with the template for these three holes. As you know these three holes are vital to a good fitting cage at several important points, however the specific location for these six holes allows for too many variables, such as;

There is a mentioned notch that it must be measured from. This notch is roughly 1/8" wide, measure from the top of the notch? Center of the notch? Bottom of the notch? Reading from the end of a tape measure? Where the tape actually starts?

The template can be easily held any an improper angle or distance from the edge of the seam causing more alignment issues and it potentially not seating completely behind the lip.

One other problem we faced when drilling these holes was the one or two spot welds that ended up off center to the hole. As the hole was drilled with a pilot, when the bit was stepped up we found as it hit the spot weld, it wanted to move the bit over causing the hole to be off. A fixed template that the drill bit could be placed through would alleviate this.

These six bolts are vital for a good fitting cage, however the actual tolerances and location of these bolts allows for many areas of question and inaccuracy. I felt a template made to bolt into the factory door hinge bolt holes would completely alleviate this problem. Which would be easy since they are removed and factory hardware can be fully threaded to these holes. It could be made from angle iron and give a consistent and precise template for anyone that needs to install this cage.

The both of us read through the instructions and found no mention of notching the aluminum dash frame. However it was absolutely required to get these a-pillars installed. Mentioned areas are in this thread;

https://www.jkowners.com/forum/showth...ewpost&t=76653


Finally I had a concern with the floor plate mounting to the floor. I understand the small extension plates that go between the cage and the floor are required to meet the requirements set by the floor contours. However, is there a reason why these are not welded to the footplate? I seemed we spent an excessive amount of time trying to line these holes up, while prying up on the floor plate, loosening bolts, etc...Where they could be affixed to the foot plate already. And I do understand not welding them makes manufacturing easier, it just can make assembly a bit more of a pain. This problem also goes back to the template tolerances. A tad too low hole set can lead to sliding those plates around under the foot plate more difficult due to the decreased distance between it and the floor.


I know you didn't ask for my opinion, but I am just trying to offer some constructive criticism on the installation and I hope this does not offend you. I feel a true template could really cut down on potential annoyed customers regarding fitment.

-Mike Goodman
Apparently this message was completely disregarded. Now I know that I did not buy the cage, however given the nature of information that travels on forums, I have talked to the guys over there several times, I run several of their products, I have installed lots of their stuff, I had assumed I would be given a few minutes of their time to have a discussion about this product. This was not the case.

If you have followed the install thread you will recall several blind-leading-the-blind posts. Now that you have read the rest of this regarding the crooked tapped holes and having to cut the dash [which is not in the instructions] Kevin’s post that comments on this [#22] was completely overlooked by Poison Spyder. Not a mention or comment regarding those two concerns. Another example is the post regarding the mysterious 4 hole foot plate. It just seems a bit elementary that someone designed a plate, cut out the plate, put the plate in the box and sent it to people and yet nobody seems to know what it is. While it may not seem like a big deal, but “extra parts” on a sport cage is a little concerning. Timmah has been very persistent on trying to keep up with things, I understand he is new and probably doesn’t know the in’s and out’s of every product…but someone there has to know what those plates are.


.

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Last edited by Goodysgotacuda; 06-25-2012 at 04:40 AM.
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post #22 of 131 Old 06-25-2012, 04:38 AM
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Private Messages –
Since the install thread started Kevin and I have received several PMs from other cage owners or interested parties expressing their concerns regarding the cage. None of which I have read on the forum, in fact I haven’t heard much about this cage on the board in general. I assume that since I have gotten this deep into my opinion on the cage, I might as well go ahead and throw these out there as well. I changed the names around.

Quote:
Jimmy Johnson told me you installed one this weekend and had some issues? What problems did you run into? We tried to install mine as well and the A-pillars didn't fit how they were supposed to and we had to scrap the install, and now I've got to try to deal with PSC to get it fixed. Complete piece of shit design IMO.

-Tony Stewart
Quote:
I have their cage in right now, not happy with it, I have voiced my concerns to PSC about the movement of the cage I see while driving so they know, it comes out next week. I have an aftermarket hardtop that doesn't fit as snug as before lots of water enters my jeep now. I've adjusted the hinges on the doors so it's a little better. I don't care anymore, Ricky Bobby is going to pickup my Jeep next week and go thru the dash and tie all to frame so now worries.

Kind regards,
Jeff Gordon
-Replied-

Quote:
I think Larry is more concerned about winning races, then his products anymore.
-Jeff Gordon
Quote:
The windshield was my first concern when PSC came out with their cage.

The cage is suppose to be there for safety, if you roll your jeep with this cage the windshield will begin to flop around throwing glass or who knows what back in your face, lap etc, along with any other debris.

I haven't liked this design from day 1.

Just an FYI...

-Mark Martin
—Conclusions--

What do I expect to gain from posting this?

*Nothing, I have no vested interest.

Would I recommend it?

*Do I think this is better than stock? Absolutely. Do I think TexasKev will keep safe within it? Yes. Does it meet the expectations I had for it? No. As for right now, my personal recommendation for a JK sport cage would be to go with the full Poly Performance cage, if not that, then the OR-FAB.

What do I think will be done about this?

*Not a whole lot really, I hope that some of the design gets reconsidered and that those interested in the cage are as educated as possible regarding the different designs before making a purchase to protect themselves and family. I do expect some feedback from others that have installed this cage trouble free, I bet they do exist. My response is that you had some luck on your side..

What do I expect Poison Spyder to say about this?

*As far as the install goes, I expect to be basically told that I am too incompetent to be installing these cages and that they have never had any trouble with…. Maybe not that direct, but I expect something along those lines. I will go ahead and say anyone that knows me would feel confident in allowing me to work on their rig, lacking mechanical skill or knowledge is not something I consider as myself. I do take pride in the work that I do, even more so for work performed on someone else’s rig.

As far as anything else goes, I hope I am completely wrong. I hope their floor plate is engineered to withstand X amount of load. I hope their bolt count and thread engagement has been engineered to withstand this or that. By all means, please exchange some hardcore facts about this cage, post some CAD based stress analysis and completely blow my claims out of the water.


“That’s all I have to say, about that.”

[Flame Suit On]
-Mike

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Last edited by Goodysgotacuda; 06-25-2012 at 04:52 AM.
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post #23 of 131 Old 06-25-2012, 05:28 AM
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post #24 of 131 Old 06-25-2012, 05:44 AM
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post #25 of 131 Old 06-25-2012, 06:05 AM
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thanks tex and goody....now just hopeing PS is following and gets all the kinks out!!!

STORM
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