Teraflex Big Brake Kit on Spyntecs - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 08-17-2011, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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Teraflex Big Brake Kit on Spyntecs

I've been looking at the Tera BB Kit for some time but thought I was aced out because I have Spyntec hubs. Thanks to another Forum member I learned the BB Kit could be made to work by simply machining the center hole out to match the Spyntec hub. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, so I rolled the dice and ordered the kit, along with the larger bore master cylinder Tera is also offering.

First off, the Tera stuff is stout, 70 lbs of dual piston caliper & 13", slotted rotor. Regarding the latter, what really helps is that Tera has them made with both the 5x5 and 5x5.5" bolt pattern. The snag was that the rotors were made to work on the JKs unit bearing, held in pace by the wheel, not on a manual hub center, held in place by pressed in wheel studs. A call to Matt at Spyntec got the center hole size of their JK hub, 4.005".

Off to the machine shop, Pete's Paint & Body. Pete Lovett is a local car hero, hot rodder, Cobra body repair guru and just knows his stuff. I dropped them off, gave him the spec and left him to work his magic. He chucked them into his lathe using the center hat, indexed to center off the existing center hole. Couple hours later they were ready, slick as you please. He was a bit concerned about one, which he said had about .050 runout. He corrected it best he could. I checked the holes later and he was basically dead on spec.

Ok, so today was the day. I put the Jake on stands, pulled the front wheels and decided to work one complete side at a time. With the first side stripped out I put the assembly on my little shop press to pop out the studs:



Here's what the hub looks like without the rotor. If you do this you must be uber careful with the reluctor fins on the inner hub. I managed NOT to screw any of them up.



So, with the hub stripped of it's rotor I laid everything out so you can see the differences. I was surprised to see that the Spyntec rotor also had both bolt patterns. Spyntec says in the kit bill of materials that they use a Raybestos 3552, which I learned is the stock rotor for a late CJ7. But, I have a hunch that was not the case with my Spyntecs. More below. One point to mention, if you do this be sure to ask your machinist to put a slight chamfer on the inner edge of the hole to clear the Spyntec hub's radius. I didn't and had to do some work with a Dremel to get the rotors to seat flush:



Ok, now here was my leap of faith. The wheel stud holes in the standard Spyntec rotor are just drilled through leaving a square flat surface to seat the studs. (Note: Although Spyntec says they use a Raybestos 3552, when I looked up the specs fro that rotor it didn't come with a dual bolt pattern, and it only had a 3.75" center hole. Looking more closely at them today it appears Spyntec used a standard JK rotor and drilled it fro 5x5.5", plus opened the center hole to 4.005".)



I discovered that the back side of the bolt holes on the Teraflex rotors had been countersunk. This means the wheel studs would have to be pressed down into them, seating on a chamfer. This was almost a show stopper for me, but after measuring everything there appeared to be plenty of meat for the stud heads to seat on. The studs actually only protrude a bit more out the hub face side, maybe 1mm, due to tolerance stack-up:



Ok, so here we go, let's press the studs in. I drove them in part way with a brass hammer to align the knurls, then GENTLY pressed them into the assembly in a star, criss cross pattern to ensure the rotor seated perfectly flat to the hub face. Screw this up and you'll have vertical runout and rotor wobble. (Bear in mind, I was gambling the outer faces of the rotor hats were square to the machined surfaces of the rotors. THEY WERE!! Take me to the casino!) I also had to be sure the studs were pressed into the countersinks as flush as they could go, so I probably pressed them in in four total cycles.



Here's the assembled hub & rotor, ready to button up.



Here one of them is, installed, caliper & pads in and bled. I won't get into too much detail on this part, Teraflex's Dennis Wood had a great video on the installation that covers this all in detail.



BTW, this was the rotor Pete had been concerned about re: runout, and sure enough once it was installed in one spot the outer edge was rubbing a caliper casting bump. A small bit of Dremel work on the caliper and the issue was fixed.

Here's the same side with the wheel on.



A quick pressure bled and we were off for a test drive. One thing for sure, not only did everything line up and fit, they work GREAT, and no chatter, wobbles, pedal pulsation, etc. I had installed the Teraflex big bore master cylinder on Monday, so I got a feel for the standard brakes with the added fluid movement. The dual piston calipers ate up a bit of the reduced pedal travel I'd noticed, but not to worry, the thing stops like NOW!

Where I got really lucky was that as I mentioned above, the rotor hat outer faces are perfectly aligned with the machined surfaces of the rotors. If they hadn't been I'd have had to have the assemblies machined to the hub centers. Sometimes you do just get lucky.

Wrote this up just to show that it can be done relatively easily. This is not for the inexperienced to tackle, but you can pull your hub & rotor assemblies and have your machinist cut the holes and press in the studs for you. If your running Spyntecs with 35"+ this is really worth looking into. Hope Teraflex takes this into account and offers a special rotor just for the Spyntecs. That's all you'd need to make this a bolt-on.

Best!!!

Last edited by SoK66; 08-18-2011 at 01:34 PM.
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post #2 of 34 Old 08-24-2011, 07:42 PM
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Nice write up!
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post #3 of 34 Old 11-05-2011, 06:36 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks!
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post #4 of 34 Old 11-05-2011, 07:03 AM Thread Starter
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One issue that has come up with this is that the rotor on the driver's side worked a bit loose radially. The holes in the rotor didn't quite match those in Spyntec's hub, so the stud heads weren't seating around the entire circumference of the countersign TF puts in the rotors. The passenger's side is fine, but I needed a better solution than pressing the stud heads down into that countersink. Easier said than done!

No one makes a tapered seat, pressed in wheel stud. Another idea that would really do the job are some tapered bushings that match Teraflex's countersink angle and fit under the stud heads. Unfortunately, I don't even know what to call them and I surmise I'd have to have them made up by a job shop. An additional idea is to make a circular plate that fits inside the rotor hat, drilled for a 5x5.5" bolt pattern that the stud heads could be pressed through and seat on. I've seen this done on Ford hubs & rotors but can't find a part number. If anyone has any idea WTF I'm talking about here, please offer your insights.

As a short-term fix I pressed out the studs and reinstalled them with 5/8" hardened washers, which fit tightly on the stud head shoulders. This give the studs a better seating surface, but probably won't lock the rotor in place radially. We're going to monitor this over the next few thousand miles and see if it works. Another forum contributor has done this but tack welded the washers to the rotor. Time will tell, watch this space.


Last edited by SoK66; 11-05-2011 at 07:07 AM.
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post #5 of 34 Old 11-05-2011, 09:24 AM
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Sok66, great write up. Man is it ever going to cost me when I finally get to doing everything I need to do to the JK! On the seating of the studs, I do not know how thick the mounting surface is for the studs but you could have your machinist spot face each hole to the depth of the countersink, giving it a flat spot to seat against and to the diameter of the studs head and just maybe .040 larger for tolerance stack up, that would help lateral movement. Just a thought.
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post #6 of 34 Old 11-05-2011, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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Can you describe what "spot face" means?

I'm thinking I could use a drive flange wedge in each hole if I can find one that matches the angle of the countersink. Dorman has one with the correct i.d., #685-055.
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post #7 of 34 Old 11-05-2011, 10:32 PM
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Spot face is when you have a hole and create a larger hole with a flat bottom in it kind of like this l___l if you were to look at it from
the side of the hole hope this makes sense but looking at the pictures again it looks like your..........l_l ......countersink goes from face to mounting surface so this probable will not work as there will not be any material left after going deep enough to remove the taper of the countersink. You may have to go with the drive flange wedge as long as the tapers match and I can not remember what the standard for the taper is, sorry.

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post #8 of 34 Old 11-06-2011, 07:40 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks, that's what I thought you meant but wasn't certain. The drive flange wedges I found (Dorman 685-055) are 5/8" i.d., 1" o.d., 7/16" h. I'd have to have them machined down to be less than the thickness of the rotor hub, and I'm not sure the taper will match the countersink, which would knacker the whole idea. I'm sort of down to getting base plates machined and using a bit longer stud.
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post #9 of 34 Old 11-06-2011, 12:03 PM
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Yeah after looking more closely at the pictures and what you have been saying the plates may be the answer. Could get some tubing with a 5/8" i.d. and an o.d. a bit larger than the countersink and have a machine shop turn the taper to match the rotors countersink and part them off to the length or just a bit less than the depth of the countersink, basically look like the drive flange wedge but without the split. Just a thought since some sort of machining will be done even with the plates.
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post #10 of 34 Old 11-07-2011, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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Contacted Dynatrac today to see if they can remember where they got the ones that were on the axles they supplied for my YJ. The front D44 used 76 -86 Bronco hubs & rotors, and that's where I saw the rings used as backup for the wheel studs. They still have the build record so maybe when I hear back from Rob I'll have a better handle on this.

Meanwhile, I got some 1/4" longer 1/2" wheel studs (Dorman 610-277 vs 219s) and some 4.5mm thick 5/8s i.d. hardened washers to try. These are more than twice the thickness of the ones I have on there and should be stout enough to prevent any rotor radial play or stud tip, etc. The studs have the same knurl, but a bit longer shank which will compensate for the washer thickness. The washers shouldn't deform when the stud is pulled against them. Hate to do this all over again but want to get it right.

Last edited by SoK66; 11-07-2011 at 07:31 PM.
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post #11 of 34 Old 11-07-2011, 06:42 PM
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Sounds good, keep us posted on what you end up with and how it holds up.
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post #12 of 34 Old 11-09-2011, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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Latest on this, having a set of base plates made that will fit inside the rotor hat and provide a solid seat for the wheel studs. A couple local guys have a digital plasma cutter table that can knock these out in a jiffy. Will post a pic or two when I get them later this week.
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post #13 of 34 Old 11-10-2011, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, here's what were going to try as a permanent fix. I had a local fab shop cut these out of 1/8" plate on their plasma cutter table. These will drop down inside the rotor hat and provide a solid base for the wheel studs. I'll use 1/4" longer Dorman 610-277 studs to compensate for the ring thickness. Should provide a solid base for the studs to clamp the rotor to the hub. SHould also prevent the rotor from moving radially.



If you want to copy these, the dimensions at 7 1/8" dia., 4.25" inner hole did., 5x5.5" bolt pattern, 41/64" holes. I had them use 1/8" plate instead of 1/4" so we would not have issues with stud length.
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post #14 of 34 Old 11-10-2011, 08:03 PM
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Looks good. Now get them installed and put some miles on them and let us know how they work
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post #15 of 34 Old 11-11-2011, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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I installed the base plates this AM after giving them a shot of rattle can black last night to hold down any potential corrosion. They fit perfectly, amazing what you can do with a computerized plasma cutter & table. Pressed in some new, longer studs (Dorman-277) that have both a slightly longer shank, and a bit more thread to compensate for the thickness of the plates. Test drove it and had to retorque a few times to get all of the studs to seat firmly. Probably could have used a bit more force on the press but didn't want to distort the plates. We'll get a few thousand on these and see if it's the fix.



If there are any issues with these and I have to do this again I'll try using a bit thicker plate, like 3/16". The countersink Teraflex uses on these is really extreme, so everything we use less than 1/4" plate to back up the stud heads ends up being drawn down into them slightly. However, if we use 1/4" plate we may have a problem getting a stud that will be long enough to properly seat the knurl, and we may have a clearance problem with the face of the spindle. Stay tuned, gang!

Last edited by SoK66; 11-12-2011 at 03:41 PM.
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post #16 of 34 Old 11-13-2011, 09:25 AM
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SoK66, very nicely done. I'll be following this - looking forward to seeing how it works.

Another thing to think about if your 1/8" isn't strong enough - instead of going thicker, you can always heat treat them (like the grade 8 washers are). Shouldn't be too bad to get them done at a local shop. Or maybe remake them out of a tougher alloy. All those will get you more strength without going thicker.

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Thanks. Haven't been able to put many miles on them but they seem to be holding torque reasonably well. BTW, the countersink on TF's rotors is 1" wide at the top!
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post #18 of 34 Old 11-14-2011, 05:02 AM
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I've seen those countersunk holes on several rotors, but just remembered what they're for: many times OEM's place a push-on style retaining ring on the stud that the countersink will clear - to ensure flat seating of the rotor on the axle/hub.

Let me know how it works out. I can't imagine there's a huge market for this (TF Brakes on Spyntec hubs), but I could make a few sets up.

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post #19 of 34 Old 11-14-2011, 07:45 AM Thread Starter
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Good to know! The specs I posted earlier fit just fine. I'd say you'd be ok clearance-wise using 3/16" plate, maybe even 1/4". The issue with plate thickness will be the stud shank penetration through the hub and the impact on the knurl grip.
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post #20 of 34 Old 11-21-2011, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeep2.0 View Post
I've seen those countersunk holes on several rotors, but just remembered what they're for: many times OEM's place a push-on style retaining ring on the stud that the countersink will clear - to ensure flat seating of the rotor on the axle/hub.
Actually, the circlip you're referring to would go between the road wheel and the outer rotor hat face on a unit bearing (stock) rig. We still hav no idea why TF has these deep countersinks on their rotors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeep2.0 View Post
Let me know how it works out. I can't imagine there's a huge market for this (TF Brakes on Spyntec hubs), but I could make a few sets up.
Seems to be working just fine. However, for anyone contemplating this mod I would recommend they be made from 3/16" plate for just a bit more strength. When the guys get back from their Baja adventure I'll have them make me up another set to have on hand.
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post #21 of 34 Old 11-21-2011, 04:20 PM
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Good point on that circlip location - you're right.

I drew this up in CAD if it's any use for anyone. Getting 2 made at a commercial machine shop makes them very pricey. Nights/Weekends machining is the only way to go.

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post #22 of 34 Old 11-21-2011, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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The guys that did mine used a computerized plasma cutter table, which is about as slick as a wet dog. They just do the pattern in CAD, lay a sheet of steel on the table and the system takes over, cuts the pattern out like a lazer. The guys used to be fabricators for the old Avalanche Engineering outfit. They got the table when Avalanche closed down. Avalanche used it to cut gussets, brackets and other items that they'd had to buy piecemeal before or cut by hand as needed.
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post #23 of 34 Old 11-22-2011, 08:33 AM
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Do they want to make a couple more? :-)

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post #24 of 34 Old 11-22-2011, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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I'm sure they would. They're called BC Fabrication, located in Bayfield, CO. 970-884-4400. Ask for Drew.
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post #25 of 34 Old 11-22-2011, 03:39 PM
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what did they charge you for them? I might have to try them on mine

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