Balancing beads - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 03-21-2017, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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Balancing beads

How many of you guys are running beads and what kind of results are you having?

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post #2 of 16 Old 03-21-2017, 03:55 PM
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I have 'em. Can't say they work all that well, or not, cuz I don't know what it's like w/o 'em or with weight balancing. Steady speed is okay. Varying speeds need time to even out.

I might have needed to put in a little more even tho' I used their recommendation for tire size...315/70 Duratracs. On 17" Rock Monsters, given the weight of those wheels, I'm sure I needed to add more. I have some mild shimmy starting around 40-45mph and at highway speeds. The slightest variation in speed, like hitting small inclines on cruise, upsets 'em.

One of these days I'll take 'em out, get the wheels properly balanced and see what's up. I'm not likely to add any...disassembling the wheels is kinda time consuming and labor intensive. FWIW, Hutchinson doesn't recommend using 'em anyway. They're not bashing the product, they just don't like the idea of the beads possibly getting trapped in between the inner sleeve and whatever.

Last edited by funfred; 03-21-2017 at 04:02 PM.
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post #3 of 16 Old 03-21-2017, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funfred View Post
I have 'em. Can't say they work all that well, or not, cuz I don't know what it's like w/o 'em or with weight balancing. Steady speed is okay. Varying speeds need time to even out.

I might have needed to put in a little more even tho' I used their recommendation for tire size...315/70 Duratracs. On 17" Rock Monsters, given the weight of those wheels, I'm sure I needed to add more. I have some mild shimmy starting around 40-45mph and at highway speeds. The slightest variation in speed, like hitting small inclines on cruise, upsets 'em.

One of these days I'll take 'em out, get the wheels properly balanced and see what's up. I'm not likely to add any...disassembling the wheels is kinda time consuming and labor intensive. FWIW, Hutchinson doesn't recommend using 'em anyway. They're not bashing the product, they just don't like the idea of the beads possibly getting trapped in between the inner sleeve and whatever.
That's what I was thinking, I have one done last night and will continue the battle tonight.

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post #4 of 16 Old 03-21-2017, 04:15 PM
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Do beads and TPMS sensors play well together?

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post #5 of 16 Old 03-21-2017, 04:47 PM
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Good question. I think the low speeds that would have the beads falling to gravity wouldn't have much impact, but given time and a gazillion low energy impacts? The other thing would be, how well would the beads take the impacts over time?

I used Dyna Beads. Here's what they have to say...
"A: Most TPMS sensors that thread onto the valve stem, such as the Pressure Pro, will require a filtered valve core.

Note: If your wheels have a TPMS system that is an integral part of the valve stem, Dyna Beads will not cause any problems, but you won't be able to install the beads using the Applicator."



For an answer to any question about why I went with beads...I apologize for the cut/paste.
Mudders, Rock Crawlers and Oversize Tire Owners need Dyna Beads®!

We have a special chart for the owners of large, aggressive-tread tires similar to those produced by Michelin, Continental, Interco, BFGoodrich, Mickey Thompson and Toyo, among others.

Your unique and specialized-function tires and Dyna Beads make an ideal team!

Special Off Road beads for superior performance in large, aggressive tires.
No need to mess around with "balance patches", which are only accurate at the time of installation and a pain to install.
Wheel weights, regardless of type, are inefficient for balancing these tires, due to the distance from the outside of the tire to the rim, not to mention how it looks to have 3 lbs of wheel weights hanging on your rim.
These aggressive, oversize tires change their balance requirements quickly throughout their life, making static balancing solutions like wheel weights and balance patches ineffective.
Mud and snow collection can quickly affect wheel balance. Dyna Beads® will quickly move to rebalance this temporary condition.

This part is true enough. I haven't noticed any imbalance when covered in mud and snow.
Dyna Beads are the ideal balancing compound for your tires. Easy to install, extremely efficient, won't rust, perfectly round, solid ceramic, and always working to balance your tires every time you drive. If your tire slips on the rim, the beads will adjust and compensate automatically.


Their FAQ page...
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post #6 of 16 Old 03-21-2017, 06:43 PM
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I didn't have good luck with balance beads. I had 2 tires that I had to send back because they wouldn't even spin balance. I had my tires road forced balanced to me that's the way to go.

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post #7 of 16 Old 03-21-2017, 07:10 PM
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I've had no luck whatsoever with dyna beads or airsoft pellets on larger tires that travel at highway speeds. Maybe I didn't use enough. I've had some minor success with golf balls but they did not last very long before needing to be swapped. They also left a visible wear line around the inside of the tire. Never bothered with TPMS because I don't need a computer to tell me when to use a pressure gauge.
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post #8 of 16 Old 03-21-2017, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snout View Post
I've had no luck whatsoever with dyna beads or airsoft pellets on larger tires that travel at highway speeds. Maybe I didn't use enough. I've had some minor success with golf balls but they did not last very long before needing to be swapped. They also left a visible wear line around the inside of the tire. Never bothered with TPMS because I don't need a computer to tell me when to use a pressure gauge.
Golf balls ?

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post #9 of 16 Old 03-22-2017, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by tapcola View Post
Golf balls ?
I read about it on some trucking forums and thought "what possibly could go wrong". The long and short of it is, they would not balance at slow speed, then things would be OK at highway speed. Couple the dangerous inner wear with all the thumping sounds -- I took them out. In summary -- don't try it. It's stupid and not safe. I should have noted that earlier.
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post #10 of 16 Old 03-22-2017, 08:36 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by snout View Post
I read about it on some trucking forums and thought "what possibly could go wrong". The long and short of it is, they would not balance at slow speed, then things would be OK at highway speed. Couple the dangerous inner wear with all the thumping sounds -- I took them out. In summary -- don't try it. It's stupid and not safe. I should have noted that earlier.
Oh I wouldn't try it I just thought it was hilarious that some one would have!

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post #11 of 16 Old 03-22-2017, 10:22 AM
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post #12 of 16 Old 03-22-2017, 02:12 PM
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I ran both the ceramic as well as some steel shot beads for a while.

It was "OK", but not exactly a miracle cure.

I was running 37 inch MTR Kevlars. At moderate speeds between30-45MPH, there was not enough force on the beads for them to balance, so lots of on-and-off balance issues.

At higher speeds it would smooth out and be barely acceptable. But when you hit a bump, the beads would move around and cause a moment or two of unbalanced condition.

They both made a strange sound when coming to a stop as the beads would rain down on the top side of the inside of the wheel.

I finally took them out, and just balanced them with a cheapo Harbor Freight bubble balance and $2 worth of stick on weights. Been running it like that for a year and a half without any issue.

I also had some Centramatic balancers on my H1 years back. Same result, just kind of "OK"...

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post #13 of 16 Old 03-22-2017, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guruman View Post
It was "OK", but not exactly a miracle cure.

I was running 37 inch MTR Kevlars. At moderate speeds between30-45MPH, there was not enough force on the beads for them to balance, so lots of on-and-off balance issues.

At higher speeds it would smooth out and be barely acceptable. But when you hit a bump, the beads would move around and cause a moment or two of unbalanced condition.

They both made a strange sound when coming to a stop as the beads would rain down on the top side of the inside of the wheel.

I finally took them out, and just balanced them with a cheapo Harbor Freight bubble balance and $2 worth of stick on weights. Been running it like that for a year and a half without any issue.

I also had some Centramatic balancers on my H1 years back. Same result, just kind of "OK"...
I had experiences similar to Guruman's. Too lazy to type it out right now, so . . . allow me to quote me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExWrench View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by EODtech View Post
With your Tacoma how well did the beads hold up with keeping the wheels balanced?
The 2007 Tacoma was my first time phookin' around with airsoft balancing, and I went back to traditional balancing when I sold it.
I put 10 oz. of .20 gram airsoft pellets/beads/BBs in each of the 255/85R16 (~33.5x10.5-16) BFG MT KM tires on the Taco.
  1. 20% of the time, it was PERFECT!
  2. 20% of the time, it was HORRIBLE!
  3. 60% of the time, it was OK
A little insight into how the BBs act:
The BBs fall down inside the tire until about 25-30 MPH, where they transition to staying spread out against the inside of the tread.
The BBs stay flung out against the inside of the tread until you come to a stop (or close to it).

If I hit the transition speed in the Taco while going through a corner (like a curved freeway on-ramp), I would have a horribly unbalanced tire.
Occasionally, the beads would not redistribute properly after hitting an odd bump on the freeway and I would have a horribly unbalanced tire.
Either of the two scenarios above would require me to pull over and stop to regain good balance, unless I lucked out and hit a bump right to clear it up.

On the Jeep, I put 8 oz. of .20 gram BBs and 6 oz. of propylene glycol inside when I mounted the tires on the beadlocks.
Later, while resolving death wobble and shimmy issues, I added 8 oz. of distilled water through the valve stems.
This brought me up to 22 oz. of dynamic balancing media in each tire, and the last 8 oz. did not make a huge difference.
  1. 20% of the time, it is GOOD to perfect
  2. 20% of the time, it is BAD (but not horrible)
  3. 60% of the time, it is OK to good
The addition of propylene glycol got rid of the Taco's problem of the beads requiring a ridiculous level of intervention on my part to get unfooked sometimes.
I do not worry about the transition point with my current setup, so the glycol is an effective lubricant (and anti-freeze).
However, the BBs have a worse axial imbalance on average in the 12.5" tires on 10" rims on my JK than they did in the 10.5" on 8" rims on the Taco.

In summary:
  • Adding lube to the BBs totally helps them correct for any RADIAL imbalance more quickly and accurately.
  • Narrower rims and tires are the only way to minimize AXIAL imbalance - the BBs cannot compensate for that.
  • A tall, narrow tire on a narrow rim would probably balance almost perfectly using BBs, glycol, and water.
  • Dynamic media balancing is great a lot of the time, but not all of the time, and sometimes it just sucks.
This coming week, I plan to pull the tires, vacuum and clean out all of the balancing media, and check the rims for axial and radial runout.
I believe that Trail Ready did a good job but I never checked the rims for machining accuracy, so it's time to verify that TR earned the faith I have in them.
If and when the rims pass my inspection, I will reassemble the tires and static balance them using a bubble balancer and tape weights.

I know that my MTR/Ks have some radial runout, and I changed rims when the tires had 15k on them, so they bring a bit to the shimmy party.
However, I had no major problems before I moved the tires over to my beadlock rims.
I had an immediate onset of death wobble on the shakedown run of my new rim/tire combination.

The death wobble itself was the result of a blown out flex joint in my front lower control arm, but the onset was from the new chassis dynamics.
Specifically, I now had my tires on wider rims with less backspacing. This provided the leverage to bring the shimmy to instigate the wobble.

Shit, it's late - time to bail on this. I'll get into the rest of that crap later.

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post #14 of 16 Old 03-23-2017, 06:34 AM
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Nice repost!

I liked the percentage breakdown. Not my numbers, but the point is made.
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post #15 of 16 Old 03-24-2017, 08:34 AM
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The shop that mounted my 37s the other week forgot that they couldn't balance tires that big on their equipment so they gave me Counteract beads for free since they already charged me for balancing. The first 20ish miles were a little rough, but they've been pretty smooth since, I've gotten up to 75-78 no problem. It helps when you have a tire that doesn't need too much weight to balance in the first place.

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post #16 of 16 Old 03-24-2017, 04:46 PM
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I have 40" ProComps with 13-14ozs of 25g airsoft BBs. I run daily at 40-75mph no issues at all, very smooth running setup!
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