ARIZONA - Off-Highway Vehicle Program Managers Solicit Public Input - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 Old 11-06-2012, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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ARIZONA - Off-Highway Vehicle Program Managers Solicit Public Input

Did you guys see this yet?

The workshops will be held:

Phoenix -- Wednesday, November 7, 2012, at 6:00 pm
Arizona State Land Department auditorium, 1616 W. Adams St., Phoenix, AZ

Flagstaff -- Wednesday, November 14, 2012, at 6:00 pm
Arizona Game and Fish Department office, 3500 S. Lake Mary Rd., Flagstaff, AZ

Tucson -- Thursday, November 15, 2012, at 6:00 pm
Arizona Game and Fish Department office, 555 N. Greasewood Rd., Tucson, AZ

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/usa-s...lic-input.html

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post #2 of 9 Old 11-06-2012, 01:13 PM
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Yessir, thank you..their on-line maps have long been a favorite of mine for finding new trails....
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post #3 of 9 Old 11-06-2012, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish View Post
Yessir, thank you..their on-line maps have long been a favorite of mine for finding new trails....
I have no issues with mapping dirt roads.

That fact that their Maps now include 4wd trails is not necessarily a "good" thing. Extreme trails now in the public eye is a safety risk, leads to rock stacking and unprepared rigs getting stuck or abandoned.

I dont support mapping of Extreme trails. If you want to run a new to you trail, run it with an experienced trail boss who can assess if your prepared for the trail and show you the lines. Police our own.

(5.0) Impassable trails:
Nondisclosure of trails names or general locations for purposes of public safety and trial preservation.

(4.5) Extreme trails:
Nondisclosure of trails names or general locations for purposes of public safety and trial preservation.

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post #4 of 9 Old 11-06-2012, 03:27 PM
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I agree about trail leaders but even posting on sites like azvjc and here it is very hard to find people who have even been on trails I want to do. 4wd trails have long been on usgs maps. using these to find the unkown is what I like to do moreso than pure rock crawling. As a mapmaker I feel if a trail is harcore and not safe alone that should be disclosed, not hidden.

Last edited by Catfish; 11-06-2012 at 03:31 PM.
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post #5 of 9 Old 11-06-2012, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catfish View Post
I agree about trail leaders but even posting on sites like azvjc and here it is very hard to find people who have even been on trails I want to do. 4wd trails have long been on usgs maps. using these to find the unkown is what I like to do moreso than pure rock crawling. As a mapmaker I feel if a trail is harcore and not safe alone that should be disclosed, not hidden.
That seems to be working out real well for trails like "Rubicon". I'm really happy that our government knows what's best for us cause we can't think for ourselves.
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post #6 of 9 Old 11-07-2012, 05:05 AM
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catfish good luck finding trails on websites. Everyone who wheels is now smart enough now not to give out any details of any trails anywhere. If you think that the environmental sheep are not scrounging websites looking for trails that we use that are not listed anywhere you are mistaken.

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Originally Posted by lohchief View Post
If people don't take a stand now,you'll be bitches under their thumbs tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
I think too much of a pressure variant between Earth and outer-space... lack of oxygen... something like that.
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post #7 of 9 Old 11-07-2012, 07:43 AM
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I see your points. Some of my opinion comes from river running where if a rapid is rated high search and rescue wants people to know so they don't get in over their head. Not to mention nautical maps. It also comes from being a wilderness explorer before I knew what rock crawling was.

However, in addition to your obviously legit concern about those who would troll 4x4 websites looking for trails to close I can also see how a lot of people just shouldn't be out there on those trails and have rescued more than one idiot. Still that's what freedom is aint it? I agree with policing and guiding our own, or self control really.

Since I am a mapmaker and review EIS on a professional basis I would like to talk to you guys about this more in person. I have worked for several entities that had policies regarding limited disclosure and can see how the extreme trails Ash is talking about should not be on maps intended for public distribution. Initially I was talking about the maps they use for their public input process. How else can we object to closure if we don't know where they are? Itsa tuff nut and sticky wicket that cuts both ways as discussed elsewhere....

I really just wanted to thank Ash for posting cuz as shocking as it sounds some just don't get involved in this kind of stuff and we need to....should make a fine campfire discussion at....the next trip. I'll bring the map!
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post #8 of 9 Old 11-07-2012, 07:53 AM
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So Mr. Mapmaker can you throw some maps together of the west and south side of the Tortolitas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lohchief View Post
If people don't take a stand now,you'll be bitches under their thumbs tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
I think too much of a pressure variant between Earth and outer-space... lack of oxygen... something like that.
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post #9 of 9 Old 11-07-2012, 08:06 AM
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I'll try to bring some saturday.......
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