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post #1 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
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long arms or adjustable control arms?

So I have been building the jeep for a few months now, and have gone from no lift, to 2.5in coil lift with 35's, and now have 37's. I know that with the larger tires and suspension that my axles is not in the correct spot anymore.

When I made the switch to 37's I noticed a bit of death woble, and think that caster may be affecting this situation.

I have been thinking it might be good to get some adjustable control arms, but if I am going to be spending the money, maybe I should just get a long arm setup for the front.

I really like the Clayton kit, and when funds allow I will be getting the full long arm setup.

What are your thougths? any recomendations of brands or fab parts I could peice together?
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post #2 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 07:48 AM
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If you switched from 35s to 37s without any suspension changes, I am doubtful that you have death wobble. More likely a poorly balanced tire.
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post #3 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 08:39 AM
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At 2.5" of lift you have absolutley no need for a long arm set up. It would be a waste of money, but it's your wallet so do what makes you happy.

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post #4 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 08:42 AM
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Chicks love Long Arms. We run the Polly set up, nice ride.


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post #5 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrahawk View Post
At 2.5" of lift you have absolutley no need for a long arm set up. It would be a waste of money, but it's your wallet so do what makes you happy.
There is no "need" but its not a waste of money.
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post #6 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
There is no "need" but its not a waste of money.
That could be heavily debated. At that height, the arms are still at a very respectable angle and the coils can't support more than ~10" of travel without unseating. In that case, longer arms won't do a thing for you unless you actually believe a slight reduction in operating angle will translate into a noticeable difference in ride quality, which it will not.
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post #7 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
That could be heavily debated. At that height, the arms are still at a very respectable angle and the coils can't support more than ~10" of travel without unseating. In that case, longer arms won't do a thing for you unless you actually believe a slight reduction in operating angle will translate into a noticeable difference in ride quality, which it will not.
I am not going to debate how much benefit it delivers but IT DOES deliver a benefit. That is why I agreed with the no need statement but not the waste of money part.
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post #8 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 10:34 AM
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Whats affecting your pinion angle has to do with how much lift you are running. I would just recommend adjustable front lowers and rear uppers. If you are wanting a LCG type rig then why not run long arms. Be prepared for shorter bump stops, longer brake lines, driveshafts and also welding new control arm brackets in to place. Did your kit come with a front track bar? Id upgrade that too.

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post #9 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 11:17 AM Thread Starter
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the lift kit I got was just a rough country 2.5in coil kit. owner before me had upgraded to an adjustable track bar, so that should be good.

for adjustable arms is there a brand that most people buy? I want something with decent quality that doesn't break the bank.

I eventually plan on going more than 2.5 in lift, but right now I am wondering in caster may be affeting the wobble in the front end, thats what I am interested in adjutable arms.

I am running recentered H1's with 37-12.5 from TWF. I know these are notorious for being hard to balance, and I am having problems with that currently. I will get them as close as possible over the next few weeks, just want to be able to do 65-70 on the highway without shaking my fillings out.
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post #10 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 12:34 PM
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Long arm kit will give you a better ride on the road. Arms sit closer to parallel with the ground so less force is transmitted in the horizontal direction.

That alone doesn't justify the cost but it should be a consideration.
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post #11 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
That could be heavily debated. At that height, the arms are still at a very respectable angle and the coils can't support more than ~10" of travel without unseating. In that case, longer arms won't do a thing for you unless you actually believe a slight reduction in operating angle will translate into a noticeable difference in ride quality, which it will not.
Agree with the first part of your comment but I disagree with the last sentence.

When you hit a bump the amount of horizontal force that is transmitted directly to the frame through the control arms (bypassing the springs - which only absorb vertical forces) is going to be directly proportional to the sine of the angle of the control arm. At zero degrees, it's zero. At a mere 5 degrees, its 8.7% of the total force being applied to the wheel from the bump.

The angle of the control arm makes a bigger difference than most people would expect. This is why control arm drop brackets were invented... but of course they have their own set of problems.
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post #12 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lank View Post
Long arm kit will give you a better ride on the road. Arms sit closer to parallel with the ground so less force is transmitted in the horizontal direction.
On paper, yes. Good luck realizing, recording, or noticing the differences in the real world with all else being equal.
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post #13 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 02:57 PM
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It's not a TJ, so long arm benefit on a small lift is negligible. Next your going to tell me a throttle body spacer gives you a noticeable seat of the pants boost in power.

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post #14 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
There is no "need" but its not a waste of money.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.cross View Post
the lift kit I got was just a rough country 2.5in coil kit. owner before me had upgraded to an adjustable track bar, so that should be good.

for adjustable arms is there a brand that most people buy? I want something with decent quality that doesn't break the bank.

I eventually plan on going more than 2.5 in lift, but right now I am wondering in caster may be affeting the wobble in the front end, thats what I am interested in adjutable arms.
Another option. The Synergy arms are nice because of the adjustablity while installed on the vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lank View Post
Long arm kit will give you a better ride on the road. Arms sit closer to parallel with the ground so less force is transmitted in the horizontal direction.

That alone doesn't justify the cost but it should be a consideration.
Yes but on a Jk with 4" or less lift height its not going to be noticeable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imped View Post
On paper, yes. Good luck realizing, recording, or noticing the differences in the real world with all else being equal.
Agreed.


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post #15 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.cross View Post
I noticed a bit of death woble,
There is not such thing as a bit of death wobble. If there was, it would not be called death wobble. Your tires are most likely not balanced correctly, and with 37s, they probably never will be depending on brand.

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post #16 of 22 Old 03-22-2013, 03:58 PM
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Re: long arms or adjustable control arms?

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Originally Posted by rdlynch2 View Post
There is not such thing as a bit of death wobble.
That would be like saying you have a mild case of AIDS


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post #17 of 22 Old 03-23-2013, 02:54 PM Thread Starter
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OK so it was full death wobble, and I had to slow down to about 5 mph for it to stop.

After watching the video's about diagnosing death wobble, I replaced the track bar bolts with 9/16 and found I need new drag link ends, and ball joints.

I know my tires aren't going to be perfect but I have them balanced with only 5 oz, so I feel that is probably best it is going to get.

Either way, would caster be affecting my tire wobble separate from the tires being slightly off?
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post #18 of 22 Old 03-23-2013, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ArticRubi View Post
That would be like saying you have a mild case of AIDS
Or a little pregnant. But yours is much better!

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post #19 of 22 Old 03-23-2013, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil.cross View Post
OK so it was full death wobble, and I had to slow down to about 5 mph for it to stop.

After watching the video's about diagnosing death wobble, I replaced the track bar bolts with 9/16 and found I need new drag link ends, and ball joints.

I know my tires aren't going to be perfect but I have them balanced with only 5 oz, so I feel that is probably best it is going to get.

Either way, would caster be affecting my tire wobble separate from the tires being slightly off?
Sure if was off by a lot. But even having some degree of positive (really negative) caster will not cause anything like you are experiencing. Out of balance tires can certainly cause a severe wobble, but not DW. Most likely, the source is in your DL ends, or something with your alignment specs (toe)

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post #20 of 22 Old 03-23-2013, 06:31 PM
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I would highly recommend a long arm set up if you can do it. It will be a minimal gain at 2.5" of lift. I would also build it myself. There is no negative benefit to running a long arm except for the cost and time to install it.

Some build info here:
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post #21 of 22 Old 03-25-2013, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by PIG View Post
Yes but on a Jk with 4" or less lift height its not going to be noticeable.
Read the thread. OP has already stated that he plans on going bigger with the lift.

Plus his Jeep has gotten progressively bigger and bigger in the past... if he's going to keep building it up, I think a long arm kit may be a reasonable investment. Better than spending money on something that he's going to replace.
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post #22 of 22 Old 03-25-2013, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lank View Post
Read the thread. OP has already stated that he plans on going bigger with the lift.

Plus his Jeep has gotten progressively bigger and bigger in the past... if he's going to keep building it up, I think a long arm kit may be a reasonable investment. Better than spending money on something that he's going to replace.
I DID... Unless you are running 40's I don't think it's worth it. It's porb not good for biz for me to be saying that but its reality IMO. Did he say he was going to 40's and I miss it?


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