Pinion loose 8000mi after gear install. - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
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post #1 of 16 Old 03-09-2013, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
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Pinion loose 8000mi after gear install.

I installed 5.38 gears about 8000mi ago, reused the pinion bearings and replaced the crush sleeve. After about 8000mi the pinion seal started leaking and I noticed a gear noise on decel. The pinon was loose but the pinon nut was still tight. pulled the pinon and the bearings look like this.

Does this look like too much bearing preload or too little preload? I set the turning torque of the pinon to 20in/lbs at install. Trying to figure out what happened so it doesn't happen to the new bearings.

Last edited by JustinJK; 03-10-2013 at 05:38 PM.
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post #2 of 16 Old 03-09-2013, 07:37 PM
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How did you remove the bearings to reuse them?

Did you crush the crush sleeve too much and back off the pinion nut to get the right turning torque?

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post #3 of 16 Old 03-09-2013, 07:51 PM Thread Starter
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I used a bearing separator to get under the inner race and a press to remove the pinion bearing. Once I set the pinion depth and backlash I installed the new crush sleeve and tightened the pinion a little at a time with and impact till I got my turning torque.
When I did the front differential the same impact would not crush the crush sleeve and I had to use a long breaker bar to get my turning torque. I think I may have gotten the wrong crush sleeve. Any idea the length of a new crush sleeve?
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post #4 of 16 Old 03-09-2013, 08:02 PM
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Most impacts cannot set a crush sleeve, the fact that you were able to do one is somewhat surprising. I have a 3/4" ratchet just for crush sleeves..

On the pinion bearing, sorry, but there is pretty-much no way a standard bearing separator got under the inner race on a pinion. A couple thousands of an inch shim is the only thing between the inner race and the back of the pinion, it requires special tools [clamshell tool] to remove a pinion bearing in a good enough condition to reuse. I'll bet you pulled on the cage and compromised the bearing.

It's also possible the crush sleeve was installed in the wrong orientation [depending on the brand] and it can flare out into the race giving a momentarily "okay" preload and will loosen up almost immediately under normal use.

I use a $200-something dollar clamshell tool for reusing bearings, because I've never seen a bearing separator be able to remove pinion or some carrier bearings without pulling on the cage.


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post #5 of 16 Old 03-09-2013, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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What I used looked some thing like this.

It seemed like the crush sleeve was a lot easier to crush on this than it was on the front pinion.

Is there any way to tell what way the crush sleeve should go? Both ends looked the same.

How much turning torque do you run?

Thanks

Last edited by JustinJK; 03-10-2013 at 05:44 PM.
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post #6 of 16 Old 03-09-2013, 09:00 PM
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Re: Pinion loose 8000mi after gear install.

Do you have a d30 front? The crush sleeve requires more torque on the d30. My 1/2" impact usually struggles with the front.

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post #7 of 16 Old 03-10-2013, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinJK View Post
What I used looked some thing like this.

Thanks

I'll say you damaged the bearing removing it, I'm nearly positive you didn't do the bearing any favors by removing it that way.

That is not a proper tool for removing the bearings for reuse. It works for removing to replace, but not reuse. It pulls on the cage of the bearing, which can easily distort. The tool that I posted also pulls from the cage, but the race is installed and pressed against the bearing and tool; therefore it pulls on the entire bearing and not just on the cage.

I'd start there..

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Last edited by Goodysgotacuda; 03-10-2013 at 06:47 AM.
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post #8 of 16 Old 03-10-2013, 06:40 AM
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Question.

Did your (or do you think) pinion seal leak have anything to do with your bearing going bad.

Dont mean to get offtopic or derail, I just would like to know if there is a correlation btw leaky seals and bad bearings.

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post #9 of 16 Old 03-10-2013, 07:20 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spedly View Post
Do you have a d30 front? The crush sleeve requires more torque on the d30. My 1/2" impact usually struggles with the front.

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The front is a rubicon D44. I took all I had to crush the crush sleeve with a 1/2" breaker bar and a 3' pipe. The rear I was able to do with my 1/2" impact.
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post #10 of 16 Old 03-10-2013, 07:26 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post
I'll say you damaged the bearing removing it, I'm nearly positive you didn't do the bearing any favors by removing it that way.

That is not a proper tool for removing the bearings for reuse. It works for removing to replace, but not reuse. It pulls on the cage of the bearing, which can easily distort. The tool that I posted also pulls from the cage, but the race is installed and pressed against the bearing and tool; therefore it pulls on the entire bearing and not just on the cage.

I'd start there..
I think your right about the bearing puller. The pinion spun ok when checking the turning torque, but not to say the cage wasn't damaged. Also the outer bearing does not look near as bad.

Going to install new bearings and crush sleeve from jeep.
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post #11 of 16 Old 03-10-2013, 07:32 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlynch2 View Post
Question.

Did your (or do you think) pinion seal leak have anything to do with your bearing going bad.

Dont mean to get offtopic or derail, I just would like to know if there is a correlation btw leaky seals and bad bearings.
I think the seal started leaking due to the movement in the pinion. If you can feel movement in the pinion you have issues, but you will also have gear noise if the pinion is loose.

I am sure pinon seals can go bad without having a bearing issue.
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post #12 of 16 Old 03-10-2013, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinJK View Post
I think the seal started leaking due to the movement in the pinion. If you can feel movement in the pinion you have issues, but you will also have gear noise if the pinion is loose.

I am sure pinon seals can go bad without having a bearing issue.
Thanks. When I first had my gears installed, I had issues getting the front pinion seal(s) to NOT leak. Had to replace 2 of em before I got the leak to finally stop. Silicone on the splines of the yoke and surrounding the edges of the seal revolved the issue. I just wanted to see if there was any correlation

BTW at what speeds to you notice the whine? I always though bad pinion bearings whined on acceleration more so than decel

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Last edited by rdlynch2; 03-10-2013 at 12:32 PM.
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post #13 of 16 Old 03-10-2013, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlynch2 View Post
Thanks. When I first had my gears installed, I had issues getting the front pinion seal(s) to NOT leak. Had to replace 2 of em before I got the leak to finally stop. Silicone on the splines of the yoke and surrounding the edges of the seal revolved the issue. I just wanted to see if there was any correlation

BTW at what speeds to you notice the whine? I always though bad pinion bearings whined on acceleration more so than decel
Mine started making noise any time it was under load, mostly deceleration. It made no noise when costing in neutral. It was most noticeable under 45mph.
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post #14 of 16 Old 03-10-2013, 05:29 PM
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Am I the only person who can't see the pics?

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post #15 of 16 Old 03-10-2013, 05:38 PM
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Re: Pinion loose 8000mi after gear install.

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Am I the only person who can't see the pics?
No I can't see em either

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post #16 of 16 Old 03-10-2013, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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Am I the only person who can't see the pics?
Sorry, I was moving some things around on my photobucket account. Should work now.
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