Outer Front Axle Tube Seals - Necessity or Nonsense? - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 24 Old 02-24-2012, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
JKO Addict!
 
ChryslerChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Novi, Michigan (Metro Detroit)
Age: 44
Posts: 2,850
Garage
Feedback: 4 reviews
Outer Front Axle Tube Seals - Necessity or Nonsense?

Thinking about getting these outer front axle tube seals for my d30 and wanted some opinions and experiences to help guide the purchase...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jeep-JK-Wran...item56480d8a9e

With where and how I wheel - usually into bodies of water and mud here in the great mid-west - there's a greater risk of fluids leaching into my front pumpkin through the existing axle seals. So outer seals seem to make sense.

But I hesitate because of several reasons: namely, if my main seals leak or blow, I won't know until my front gears fry. Or if these outer seals allow water/mud to get in, it could stay in the tubes and corrode the axle shafts without me knowing.

Are these valid points? Are the risks worth it by having that extra layer of protection from outside elements?

I appreciate any input. Thanks!

Jeeping: The art of getting dirty and going broke while slowly heading nowhere, and taking all day to do it
2011 JK Sport. Detonator Yellow. RC 3.5 Series 2 lift, 35 inch BFG TA K/O's, RC front winch plate and Smitty XRC8 winch, bedlined tub, 5.13's, Aussie front, Truetrac rear, Teraflex Speedbumps... and NO STICKERS!
ChryslerChris is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 02-24-2012, 09:27 PM
Official Monkey Business
 
TEXASKEV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Denton Tejas
Posts: 12,215
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews
Send a message via AIM to TEXASKEV Send a message via Yahoo to TEXASKEV

I'm no expert but imo since the inner seal keeps the oil in the diff its not manditory or even important to run front outter seals. But if you ford water it coouldn't hurt.

My axle tube inserts from Evo came with some seals pre installed.

08 2Door Red Rubicon. Rock Krawler 5.5 Longarm Coilover, Polly rear Coilovers. AEV hood & wheels, 37"KM2s, JE Reel 1350 shafts, 5.38 Yukon gears, Superior axles, Shrockworks stubby, Fab Fours rear, sPod, Rebel Offroad brakes, Warn winch and lots more.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
TEXASKEV is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 02-24-2012, 09:39 PM
JKO Addict!
 
spillidge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Vancouver BC
Age: 38
Posts: 2,832
Feedback: 0 reviews

I can tell you that when I sleeved my front axle, it was so rusted inside that I had to make a tool to remove all the junk! I think outer seals are a good idea if you regularly wheel with a lot of water crossings.
spillidge is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 24 Old 02-25-2012, 09:14 AM
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 41
Feedback: 0 reviews

If you are running outer seals, it won't matter if you loose your inners.

The outers will keep the oil in and your gears happy.

Consider them as backups.
geargrinder is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 03-01-2012, 08:52 AM
Wheeler
 
Scrambler84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Kingstowne, VA
Posts: 38
Feedback: 0 reviews

but if it leaks out into the outer seal area, wouldn't you need about another quart to have the right amount of Diff oil in the Diff to make that work ok?

2012 Red JK Unlimited Rubicon, 1984 Black CJ Scrambler
2010 White JK Unlimited Rubicon - Traded, 2008 Burgundy XK Overland - Traded
Scrambler84 is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 03-01-2012, 12:11 PM
Rock God
 
Rottenbelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cedar city, Utah
Age: 44
Posts: 912
Garage
Feedback: 2 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrambler84 View Post
but if it leaks out into the outer seal area, wouldn't you need about another quart to have the right amount of Diff oil in the Diff to make that work ok?
If it leaks out it should be able to leak back in... Right???
My driver side is leaking and I was thinking of putting these in till I finish building my 44

You smell that?
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Rottenbelly is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 03-01-2012, 01:03 PM
JKO Addict!
 
usmcdoc14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Norfawk, va
Posts: 3,881
Feedback: 1 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
If you are running outer seals, it won't matter if you loose your inners.

The outers will keep the oil in and your gears happy.

Consider them as backups.
No, it wont.

The outer seals IMHO are a gimmic. yes they seal and seal very well when going in a strait line, when you turn there is enough deflection for them to burp air/water in and oil out. Thats why your seals are near the dif and not at the end, less deflection closer to the dif.

After a bunch of research I found this out as I wanted to impove the cooling/lube of my front axle.

Also if BOTH inner seals go there is more than enough space in the tubes to hold your lube and fry your gears without you knowing. Just because the inner lets oil out does not mean it will go back in

If you are worried about rust just get a bunch of foam paintbrushes ziptied to the end of a broom stick and paint the inside of the tube with POR15, Hammerite or the like.

Replacing a seal is a couple hours of work and a cheap seal driver set from harbor freight. While you are at it: change lube, paint the inside of the tubes, paint the shafts, lube joints/TRE, do you brakes and check gears as its most likely been too long since you have done any of them.
usmcdoc14 is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 03-01-2012, 06:36 PM
Rock God
 
taxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Age: 46
Posts: 1,134
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Yeah, I thought the outer seals were to keep crap out of the tubes and from possibly reaching and potentially getting through your inner seals. If you keep them greased up and flexible enough, they do a pretty good job of keeping out mud, sand and other debris. The stock outer plastic caps aren't worth a damn. If you're getting work done where you have to pull the shafts, it's worth installing the outer seals, since they're fairly inexpensive, but I wouldn't pull the shafts just to install outer seals. I had my outer seals installed when I replaced my ball joints.

2018 JL Rubicon Unlimited, 6-speed, White
1985 CJ-7, 4-speed, 258 I-6, 3" Springs, 33" BFG AT, Gunmental Gray
taxman is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 12-09-2012, 05:13 PM
JKO Dickhead
 
Asmmns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Southcoast, MASS
Age: 44
Posts: 3,522
Garage
Feedback: 6 reviews

I've had a set of these sitting around forever, and figured when I had my shafts out I would throw them in..

Then recently helped a buddy with an axle swap. He had these seals and the new axle did not. When swapping out shafts it was like night and day. The shafts with the seals looked like new with zero rust and no dust or dirt.

The others had a ton of dirt and rust.

So I decided to do mine today. I was amazed at the amount of dirt and rust inside the tubes. I definitely think this will be a big help in keeping garbage out... Not a backup to your inner seals though.


__________________
CURE SMA !

Building a capable off road Jeep is easy...building a street legal one that you can drive two hours away to wheel and then drive to work the following morning is the challenge...
Asmmns is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 12-09-2012, 07:18 PM
Gunnery Sergeant USMC (ret)
 
Uncle Sams Misguided Child's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tucson AZ
Age: 52
Posts: 22,000
Feedback: 8 reviews

No, we did a set of sleeves on a front end that had outer seals installed. There was still a shit load of crap in the axle tube. More so than when I did my sleeves and I never ran an outher seal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lohchief View Post
If people don't take a stand now,you'll be bitches under their thumbs tomorrow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
I think too much of a pressure variant between Earth and outer-space... lack of oxygen... something like that.
Uncle Sams Misguided Child is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 12-09-2012, 07:26 PM
JKO Addict!
 
venom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: East of Abilene, TX
Posts: 6,381
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews
Send a message via Skype™ to venom

I have a brand new set of superior seals sitting on a shelf in the shop somewhere I think


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by My Wife
I might just go crazy and kill you in your sleep, instead of just planning it.

Last edited by venom; 12-09-2012 at 07:31 PM.
venom is offline  
post #12 of 24 Old 12-09-2012, 07:38 PM
Slow and Low
 
Co4Lo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Colorado Springs
Age: 46
Posts: 5,305
Feedback: 4 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChryslerChris View Post
.
But I hesitate because of several reasons: namely, if my main seals leak or blow, I won't know until my front gears fry. Or if these outer seals allow water/mud to get in, it could stay in the tubes and corrode the axle shafts without me knowing.
BINGO! Don't waste your money. They are retarded.
If anybody thinks they keep crap out of the tubes, you're wrong. They trap shit in the tubes and don't allow them to clean out.
Standing water in your tubes is no bueno. And masking a potential inner seal leak is mui no bueno!
But I think you answered your own question.
Co4Lo is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 01-12-2013, 09:58 AM
JKO Addict!
 
Thisguyhasadd42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago, Ill
Age: 31
Posts: 2,533
Feedback: 1 reviews

So i found a leak today on the pass side of the axle right behind the uj and that plastic "seal". I am still pretty new to this stuff, so my question for you guys is, i dont have outer seals correct? So the leak would becoming from the inner seal which entails me to pull out the carrier and axle shafts?

I had my gears done about two months and installed PSCs new diff covers after the break in period the put about 1.5 qts of mobil 1 synth fluid in there, from what i have read that is the correct amount of fluid. I also read of someone having this problem after there first long trip after the gear change, which is funny because yesterday i drove for about six hours which is the longest route i have gone post gear change.

One more question sorry. How bad is it do drive on with this leak? I have work monday and wont be able to get to it today and idk if this is a project i am ready to tackle. Thanks for your help guys any info is greatly appreciated!

2010 Mango 2dr 6spd Rubicon
PSC BFH front and rear, Warn 9.5cti with viking synth line, Rigid duallys, RROR full skid,
RK 2.5 max travel pro with RRDs, 37" Nitto Trail Grapplers, Tera 44 front, Tera 60 rear with 4.88s
Thisguyhasadd42 is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 01-12-2013, 10:05 AM
Slow and Low
 
Co4Lo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Colorado Springs
Age: 46
Posts: 5,305
Feedback: 4 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thisguyhasadd42 View Post
So i found a leak today on the pass side of the axle right behind the uj and that plastic "seal". I am still pretty new to this stuff, so my question for you guys is, i dont have outer seals correct? So the leak would becoming from the inner seal which entails me to pull out the carrier and axle shafts?

I had my gears done about two months and installed PSCs new diff covers after the break in period the put about 1.5 qts of mobil 1 synth fluid in there, from what i have read that is the correct amount of fluid. I also read of someone having this problem after there first long trip after the gear change, which is funny because yesterday i drove for about six hours which is the longest route i have gone post gear change.

One more question sorry. How bad is it do drive on with this leak? I have work monday and wont be able to get to it today and idk if this is a project i am ready to tackle. Thanks for your help guys any info is greatly appreciated!
Don't worry about driving it. As long as there is enough fluid in the diff, you'll be just fine.

As far as the leak goes, yes, it sounds like an inner axle seal, and it will require the carrier to be pulled.

It's very common after a gear change because installers are often not careful when they re-install the axle shafts, and end up tearing the lip on the seal as they push the shaft through.

It's almost always install error. Make sure they grease the seal and the end of the axle shaft... and install it very carefully next time.

EDIT: Just another tip... you may want to park it (or jack the axle up on one side) so the leaking tube is pointing uphill until you fix it to minimize your oil loss.

Last edited by Co4Lo; 01-12-2013 at 10:07 AM.
Co4Lo is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 01-12-2013, 10:19 AM
JKO Addict!
 
rdlynch2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Albany NY
Age: 34
Posts: 3,175
Feedback: 1 reviews

I would certainly expect a day of it to replace em. And the help of a friend.

This is what I found in regards to write ups on how to do it step by step


1. Jack the jeep up and put the axle on jack stands.
2. Remove the tires.
3. Pull the tie rod (gives you way more room).
4. Drain the Diff and pull the diff cover.
5. Remove the front axle shafts.
6. Remove the bearing cap bolts.
7. Remove the bearing caps.
8. Take note of the shims on each side of the carrier. I only had 1 shim on each side. You may have multiples.
9. Pry the carrier out. Its easier with an extra set of hands. While you pry it out make sure you grab the shims. Otherwise if you drop them you are going to be redoing your backlash and everything else.
10. Press out the old seals.
11. Press in the new seals.
12. Lube up the new seals.
13. Reinstall the carrier and everything else in the exact same order that you did it in.
14. Torque the bearing cap bolts. I believe its either 80 or 85 foot pounds on a D44 and 40 or 45 on a D30.
15. Prep the housing for reinstalling the diff cover.
16. Reinstall diff cover.
17. Reinstall axle shafts.
18. Reinstall tie rod.
19. Reinstall tires
20. Place everything back on the ground.
21. Fill with diff fluid.

2008 Black 2Dr 6spd D30/44
RK 2.5 X-Factor | Synergy tie rod | 35x12.5 MTRK's | BFH front | Genright rear | Yukon 5.13's | ARB front locker | Warn M8000 w/MasterPull synthetic | Rigid 10'' E-series
rdlynch2 is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old 01-12-2013, 10:36 AM
JKO Addict!
 
Goodysgotacuda's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 13,230
Feedback: 1 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlynch2 View Post
I would certainly expect a day of it to replace em. And the help of a friend.

This is what I found in regards to write ups on how to do it step by step
Did mine in about 2 hours by myself..

SOLD - '09 2dr Rubicon - 1.0Gal | 6spd | 37s | 4.88s |
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
| OR-Fab cage | Poly Cage | BFH Front | XRC Rear | XRC12 Winch | Walker Evans Beadlocks |

Retired from the Jeep community, for now.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Goodysgotacuda is offline  
post #17 of 24 Old 01-12-2013, 12:12 PM
JKO Addict!
 
Thisguyhasadd42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago, Ill
Age: 31
Posts: 2,533
Feedback: 1 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Co4Lo View Post
Don't worry about driving it. As long as there is enough fluid in the diff, you'll be just fine.

As far as the leak goes, yes, it sounds like an inner axle seal, and it will require the carrier to be pulled.

It's very common after a gear change because installers are often not careful when they re-install the axle shafts, and end up tearing the lip on the seal as they push the shaft through.

It's almost always install error. Make sure they grease the seal and the end of the axle shaft... and install it very carefully next time.

EDIT: Just another tip... you may want to park it (or jack the axle up on one side) so the leaking tube is pointing uphill until you fix it to minimize your oil loss.
Excellent thanks for the info. Ya think parking the tire on a 4x4 would suffice or should i just jack it up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlynch2 View Post
I would certainly expect a day of it to replace em. And the help of a friend.

This is what I found in regards to write ups on how to do it step by step


1. Jack the jeep up and put the axle on jack stands.
2. Remove the tires.
3. Pull the tie rod (gives you way more room).
4. Drain the Diff and pull the diff cover.
5. Remove the front axle shafts.
6. Remove the bearing cap bolts.
7. Remove the bearing caps.
8. Take note of the shims on each side of the carrier. I only had 1 shim on each side. You may have multiples.
9. Pry the carrier out. Its easier with an extra set of hands. While you pry it out make sure you grab the shims. Otherwise if you drop them you are going to be redoing your backlash and everything else.
10. Press out the old seals.
11. Press in the new seals.
12. Lube up the new seals.
13. Reinstall the carrier and everything else in the exact same order that you did it in.
14. Torque the bearing cap bolts. I believe its either 80 or 85 foot pounds on a D44 and 40 or 45 on a D30.
15. Prep the housing for reinstalling the diff cover.
16. Reinstall diff cover.
17. Reinstall axle shafts.
18. Reinstall tie rod.
19. Reinstall tires
20. Place everything back on the ground.
21. Fill with diff fluid.
Thanks for the list, doesnt seem to bad. It will be a nice project to learn some new shit about the jeep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodysgotacuda View Post
Did mine in about 2 hours by myself..
of course you did...

2010 Mango 2dr 6spd Rubicon
PSC BFH front and rear, Warn 9.5cti with viking synth line, Rigid duallys, RROR full skid,
RK 2.5 max travel pro with RRDs, 37" Nitto Trail Grapplers, Tera 44 front, Tera 60 rear with 4.88s
Thisguyhasadd42 is offline  
post #18 of 24 Old 01-12-2013, 12:38 PM
Slow and Low
 
Co4Lo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Colorado Springs
Age: 46
Posts: 5,305
Feedback: 4 reviews

Yeah' I think parking it on a 4x4 block would suffice.

So... you are a perfect example of why OUTER axle seals are retarded. You would have never known about your inner seal leak until your gears were toast and your tube was full of gear oil.
Co4Lo is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old 01-12-2013, 03:30 PM
Granite Guru
 
MicroMark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Manassas, VA
Age: 56
Posts: 140
Feedback: 0 reviews

Just want to add:
Don't forget the "toothpick trick" between steps 12 and 13 if you have a factory e-locker.
Need to have the plunger for the locker indicator in the correct position before installing the carrier assembly.
MicroMark is offline  
post #20 of 24 Old 01-12-2013, 06:35 PM
RCZ
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Marengo IL
Age: 41
Posts: 13
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroMark View Post
Just want to add:
Don't forget the "toothpick trick" between steps 12 and 13 if you have a factory e-locker.
Need to have the plunger for the locker indicator in the correct position before installing the carrier assembly.
What's the "toothpick trick" between steps 12 and 13?

___________________________
2009 JKU Rubicon 6-speed
RCZ is offline  
post #21 of 24 Old 01-12-2013, 08:44 PM
JKO Addict!
 
Thisguyhasadd42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago, Ill
Age: 31
Posts: 2,533
Feedback: 1 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Co4Lo View Post
Yeah' I think parking it on a 4x4 block would suffice.

So... you are a perfect example of why OUTER axle seals are retarded. You would have never known about your inner seal leak until your gears were toast and your tube was full of gear oil.
Definitely, from what you said above I would have never know I have the leak if I had the outer seal. Don't see a reason to ever get one for the fact that it could trap the water sand and mud in the axle tube. And of course hide the fact that you have a leak.

2010 Mango 2dr 6spd Rubicon
PSC BFH front and rear, Warn 9.5cti with viking synth line, Rigid duallys, RROR full skid,
RK 2.5 max travel pro with RRDs, 37" Nitto Trail Grapplers, Tera 44 front, Tera 60 rear with 4.88s
Thisguyhasadd42 is offline  
post #22 of 24 Old 05-18-2014, 09:53 PM
Newbie
 
Longbeachjk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Age: 62
Posts: 8
Feedback: 0 reviews

Question, do I have to remove the actuator from the top of the housing before I remove the carrier or leave it in?
Longbeachjk is offline  
post #23 of 24 Old 05-19-2014, 08:50 AM
JKO Addict!
 
TCdawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Woodstock, Ga
Age: 50
Posts: 3,720
Garage
Feedback: 2 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longbeachjk View Post
Question, do I have to remove the actuator from the top of the housing before I remove the carrier or leave it in?
You can leave it in for removal of the carrier; however, you will need to "spread" it when you reinstall the carrier. Tons of write ups on it. I use a small piece of toothpick with a little string on it to keep the actuator open and then when the carrier is all the way in, just yank it out by the string.

TC
Crawling For Reid March 23, 2019 Adventure OffRoad Park


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
TCdawg is offline  
post #24 of 24 Old 05-19-2014, 10:05 AM
Rock God
 
bgall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,272
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmmns View Post
Maybe it is just the camera angle but it looks like he shaft is contacting the seal. That would be bad. Remember that the shaft is farthest in the diff when the wheel is straight.

I have jeeps. I do shit to them.
bgall is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome