Long Control Arm Lengths - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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Long Control Arm Lengths

So i dont know if this is even a question that should be asked but, On long arm kits are all control arms the same length? or are some longer? Between the teraflex 6" and the rock krawler 5.5" long arms... are they the same length?

-Marc
2010 JKU -- 3.5" RE Lift -- EVO LCAs -- ARTEC Truss and TB mount -- 17" Procomp 7069 -- 37" Maxxis Treps -- Heated Trucklite Headlights -- Synergy Drag flip -- Synergy TR -- Synergy bj's-- EVO 1/4 Pounder -- EVO Tire Carrier -- 4 gal rotopax -- TF Third Row -- China AEV Snorkel

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post #2 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 09:22 AM
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TeraFlex JK front lower long arms max length is 34-13/16" min is 32-1/2".


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post #3 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 09:43 AM
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Its not just about the length. Geometry is a major contributing factor to the performance of the system.

Teraflex have short uppers in the rear for example which will cause binding.
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post #4 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 10:04 AM Thread Starter
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love both the kits but since it is coming closer to crunch time i want to make sure my $4000 is being well spent since it will be the last lift Vanna gets!

-Marc
2010 JKU -- 3.5" RE Lift -- EVO LCAs -- ARTEC Truss and TB mount -- 17" Procomp 7069 -- 37" Maxxis Treps -- Heated Trucklite Headlights -- Synergy Drag flip -- Synergy TR -- Synergy bj's-- EVO 1/4 Pounder -- EVO Tire Carrier -- 4 gal rotopax -- TF Third Row -- China AEV Snorkel

Coming up:
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post #5 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
Its not just about the length. Geometry is a major contributing factor to the performance of the system.

Teraflex have short uppers in the rear for example which will cause binding.
Actually those control arms have a flex joint at both ends and do not bind when fully flexed. The bumpstops would stop the amount of flex first or the clevite bushings in the lower control arms at the frame side would be the limiting factor. Our kits are designed to protect the driveshafts/brakelines/shocks from too much flex. Too much flex can be a bad thing. Now the TeraFlex rear uppers are about 1-2" longer than our short arms for a comparision. To make them match the lengths of the lowers, you would either have to drop them below the body or run them in the body.


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post #6 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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love the construction of the teraflex long arm! and also the rock krawler!

-Marc
2010 JKU -- 3.5" RE Lift -- EVO LCAs -- ARTEC Truss and TB mount -- 17" Procomp 7069 -- 37" Maxxis Treps -- Heated Trucklite Headlights -- Synergy Drag flip -- Synergy TR -- Synergy bj's-- EVO 1/4 Pounder -- EVO Tire Carrier -- 4 gal rotopax -- TF Third Row -- China AEV Snorkel

Coming up:
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post #7 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 04:02 PM
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Sir

Here is our measurements for our arms.

The front lowers are 34.15"
The front uppers are 36.313"
The rear lowers for a 4 door are 34.625"
The rear upper (single for the 3 link conv.) is 26.875"

All the lengths posted are our operating lengths. Let us know if you have any further questions.

RK
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post #8 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeraFlex View Post
Actually those control arms have a flex joint at both ends and do not bind when fully flexed. The bumpstops would stop the amount of flex first or the clevite bushings in the lower control arms at the frame side would be the limiting factor. Our kits are designed to protect the driveshafts/brakelines/shocks from too much flex. Too much flex can be a bad thing. Now the TeraFlex rear uppers are about 1-2" longer than our short arms for a comparision. To make them match the lengths of the lowers, you would either have to drop them below the body or run them in the body.
I am not a mechanical engineer so can you please explain to me how your uppers dont bind but still exert enough force on the mounts to literally rip the frame?
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post #9 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 05:18 PM
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Zing!!!!!!!!!!!!
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post #10 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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So by the posted numbers from each company the lengths are almost identical! Amazing info and definitely makes my choice a little easier!


Sent via horse and buggy

-Marc
2010 JKU -- 3.5" RE Lift -- EVO LCAs -- ARTEC Truss and TB mount -- 17" Procomp 7069 -- 37" Maxxis Treps -- Heated Trucklite Headlights -- Synergy Drag flip -- Synergy TR -- Synergy bj's-- EVO 1/4 Pounder -- EVO Tire Carrier -- 4 gal rotopax -- TF Third Row -- China AEV Snorkel

Coming up:
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14 Bolt rear ARB w/ 5.38
EVO Long Arm
40/42 MTR's
17" Spyderlock Beadlocks
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post #11 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 07:47 PM
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looks like poor fushion... :th_242735:
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post #12 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeepmods View Post
looks like poor fushion... :th_242735:
That's what I see too...
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post #13 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
I am not a mechanical engineer so can you please explain to me how your uppers dont bind but still exert enough force on the mounts to literally rip the frame?
Looks like a poor heat penetration on the weld to me.

2008 Silver 4dr Rubi - 4.5" Rubicon Express Longarm, 37x13.5x17 Toyo M/T's, Dick Cepek DC-1(blk) 17x9, Prorock 44, ARB frt locker, RCV's (frt), Superior Chromoly Axle shafts (rear), Prosteer ball joints, 5.38 Yukon gears, RR Hydro-Assist, etc, etc, etc......
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post #14 of 29 Old 01-12-2012, 09:25 PM
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It wasn't the welds IMO. Thats my JK. The weld didn't pull off the frame, the part of the frame that weld is attached to, is still attached to the weld, it literally ripped the frame apart, just like you see the top doing.

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post #15 of 29 Old 01-13-2012, 12:46 AM
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I do see what your talking about, however poor welding technique could cause that to happen. It seems that if the control arms were overextended and binding up the arm would have torn off differently. The portion at the bottom looks to "clean" to have simply broken off because of binding. However I'm no engineer either just my .02
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post #16 of 29 Old 01-13-2012, 03:22 AM Thread Starter
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Anyway...


Sent via horse and buggy

-Marc
2010 JKU -- 3.5" RE Lift -- EVO LCAs -- ARTEC Truss and TB mount -- 17" Procomp 7069 -- 37" Maxxis Treps -- Heated Trucklite Headlights -- Synergy Drag flip -- Synergy TR -- Synergy bj's-- EVO 1/4 Pounder -- EVO Tire Carrier -- 4 gal rotopax -- TF Third Row -- China AEV Snorkel

Coming up:
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14 Bolt rear ARB w/ 5.38
EVO Long Arm
40/42 MTR's
17" Spyderlock Beadlocks
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post #17 of 29 Old 01-13-2012, 03:54 AM
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I'm actually interested in seeing how teraflex responds to this.

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Maybe they just corrected your ridiculous mistake. Who the fuck orders chrome anything?
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post #18 of 29 Old 01-13-2012, 04:08 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by H.I.I.K View Post
I'm actually interested in seeing how teraflex responds to this.
Well I got my answer in the beginning so have at it!


Sent via horse and buggy

-Marc
2010 JKU -- 3.5" RE Lift -- EVO LCAs -- ARTEC Truss and TB mount -- 17" Procomp 7069 -- 37" Maxxis Treps -- Heated Trucklite Headlights -- Synergy Drag flip -- Synergy TR -- Synergy bj's-- EVO 1/4 Pounder -- EVO Tire Carrier -- 4 gal rotopax -- TF Third Row -- China AEV Snorkel

Coming up:
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14 Bolt rear ARB w/ 5.38
EVO Long Arm
40/42 MTR's
17" Spyderlock Beadlocks
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post #19 of 29 Old 01-13-2012, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
I am not a mechanical engineer so can you please explain to me how your uppers dont bind but still exert enough force on the mounts to literally rip the frame?

IIRC Teraflex now adds a frame reinforcement plate to that area. Joe can correct me if I'm wrong about that.
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post #20 of 29 Old 01-13-2012, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane View Post
It wasn't the welds IMO. Thats my JK. The weld didn't pull off the frame, the part of the frame that weld is attached to, is still attached to the weld, it literally ripped the frame apart, just like you see the top doing.
That pic is actually taken from Blk Rubi on 40s' thread. There are several members on here who all have had this issue happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoK66 View Post
IIRC Teraflex now adds a frame reinforcement plate to that area. Joe can correct me if I'm wrong about that.
Yes Teraflex has addressed this issue with an additional gusset which (indirectly) reaffirms the fact that their shorter arms are binding and exerting alot of stress on that upper mount.
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post #21 of 29 Old 01-13-2012, 08:15 AM
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That part of the frame is CRAZY thin..... I learned that while installing my Poly lift. We went in and put a plate over the thin spot on both sides to firm it up. I found it by grinding the stock mounts flush, when the metal turned blue we knew it was getting pretty thin, and I wasn't leaning into the grinder too much.

I don't think anything will hold up well in that spot without some reinforcement.

Let me see if I can find some pics.
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post #22 of 29 Old 01-13-2012, 08:22 AM
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To the OP.

The "long" control arms are going to be very close to the same lengths... with dial in length adjustment on the ends.

now back to the derail...

I couldn't find any pics of the thin area but it is right there where the rear upper CA brackets are at. We added some plate to both sides inner/outer, welded it in and primed/painted it with some rattle can.



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post #23 of 29 Old 01-13-2012, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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ok so back to my initial question since i am starting to understand.... with regards to a lo0ng arm kit wouldnt it benefit the user by getting one that has longer control arms for more flex. i guess my biggest question is with the two lifts which one mounts their controls arms the furthest back, if that even matters, and if they mount them further back wouldnt it allow for more flexibility?

-Marc
2010 JKU -- 3.5" RE Lift -- EVO LCAs -- ARTEC Truss and TB mount -- 17" Procomp 7069 -- 37" Maxxis Treps -- Heated Trucklite Headlights -- Synergy Drag flip -- Synergy TR -- Synergy bj's-- EVO 1/4 Pounder -- EVO Tire Carrier -- 4 gal rotopax -- TF Third Row -- China AEV Snorkel

Coming up:
D60 Front 99-04 Ford ARB w/ 5.38
14 Bolt rear ARB w/ 5.38
EVO Long Arm
40/42 MTR's
17" Spyderlock Beadlocks
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post #24 of 29 Old 01-13-2012, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKUnlimitedSport_2010 View Post
ok so back to my initial question since i am starting to understand.... with regards to a lo0ng arm kit wouldnt it benefit the user by getting one that has longer control arms for more flex. i guess my biggest question is with the two lifts which one mounts their controls arms the furthest back, if that even matters, and if they mount them further back wouldnt it allow for more flexibility?
Again it comes down to design. You can have the longest lowers in the world (being facious) but in the case of a four link, if the uppers are signifianctly shorter and mounted outside the frame rails, you will get binding.

You should do some more research into the various supsension designs and their benefits/short comings instead of just looking at arm length.
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post #25 of 29 Old 01-13-2012, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
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well i really like the triple threat long arm 5.5" lift and that is what i am going to be getting, again 99.9% sure, and really want to know about them too! i like their rep, warranty, design, following and the fact that they are new yorkers i am good with that!

-Marc
2010 JKU -- 3.5" RE Lift -- EVO LCAs -- ARTEC Truss and TB mount -- 17" Procomp 7069 -- 37" Maxxis Treps -- Heated Trucklite Headlights -- Synergy Drag flip -- Synergy TR -- Synergy bj's-- EVO 1/4 Pounder -- EVO Tire Carrier -- 4 gal rotopax -- TF Third Row -- China AEV Snorkel

Coming up:
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14 Bolt rear ARB w/ 5.38
EVO Long Arm
40/42 MTR's
17" Spyderlock Beadlocks
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