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post #1 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Ram Assisted Steering?

Well I blew my power steering out yesterday (doing doghnuts.. doh!)
I have no power steering at idle whatsoever but works fine when I get the RPM's up. Fluid seems to have come out of the pump area but there is still plenty in the reservoir.

None the less, something is broke.

Instead of replacing whatever is broken with factory parts, isn't there a hydro-assist, Redneck Ram, that was designed to work with the JK.. was it PSC ?? Or am I remembering something different? Was it Screaming Lizzard Customs that did one on a JK?

Any way.. you thoughts keeping in mind I will be eventually running 40's.

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Last edited by HITMONEY; 02-09-2009 at 12:54 PM.
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post #2 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 12:50 PM
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You will need to replace the factory unit no matter what.... unless you switch to full hydro steering which is technically illegal on the road.

Hydro assist, is just that, an assist to the factory power steering.

Phil (there may be others, I just know this one for sure) has a hydro assist which will help drive those 4ds. But I'd wonder how up to snuff the factory D44 is to that size of tire and weight.

I run Hydro assist on the Isuzu and it makes a HUGE difference! But it also makes it easy to rip things off too.
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post #3 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 12:50 PM
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Im looking at doing the same thing. Its all a matter of if you can tap into your steering box or not. My "guy" says about $650 if its doable.


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post #4 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelW View Post
You will need to replace the factory unit no matter what.... unless you switch to full hydro steering which is technically illegal on the road.

Hydro assist, is just that, an assist to the factory power steering.

Phil (there may be others, I just know this one for sure) has a hydro assist which will help drive those 4ds. But I'd wonder how up to snuff the factory D44 is to that size of tire and weight.

I run Hydro assist on the Isuzu and it makes a HUGE difference! But it also makes it easy to rip things off too.

Why I bought the Rock Jock 60.

Why would full hydro be illegal?

Thoughts on this...
http://westtexasoffroad.homestead.co...osteering.html

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post #5 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 12:59 PM
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post #6 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dr.Dirty View Post
Yeah, I just found that too.... $1700.00

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post #7 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by HITMONEY View Post
Yeah, I just found that too.... $1700.00
yes sir holy shyat lol but it looks like a well thought out and easy to install kit sometimes you get what you pay for.......

www.jeepasylum.com
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post #8 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 01:09 PM
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Why full hydro isn't legal on the road...

Typically and this is in general speaking terms, a full hydro system isn't

A) relational and variable in input vs output. ie your factory power steering provides a "feel" for the road and applies turning power variably depending on speed.

B) doesn't return to center, meaning if you let go of the wheel the wheel does not "automatically" return to driving straight. This could be catastrophic in the event you can not input to the steering wheel and the vehicle continues on the course of your last input.

C) if your hydro system fails, you have NO WAY to control your vehicle.

Ram Assist or Hydro Assist, does just that, assist the application of power to the input you or the RTC is providing to the steering system.

Now a full hydro with backups and RTC and variable ratio is legal and is in fact on several very large on road commercial vehicles.
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post #9 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelW View Post
Why full hydro isn't legal on the road...

Typically and this is in general speaking terms, a full hydro system isn't

A) relational and variable in input vs output. ie your factory power steering provides a "feel" for the road and applies turning power variably depending on speed.

B) doesn't return to center, meaning if you let go of the wheel the wheel does not "automatically" return to driving straight. This could be catastrophic in the event you can not input to the steering wheel and the vehicle continues on the course of your last input.

C) if your hydro system fails, you have NO WAY to control your vehicle.

Ram Assist or Hydro Assist, does just that, assist the application of power to the input you or the RTC is providing to the steering system.

Now a full hydro with backups and RTC and variable ratio is legal and is in fact on several very large on road commercial vehicles.
Ok, now that I have seen a couple kits I am clear... thanks. None of the ones I am looking at are full hydro.


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post #10 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HITMONEY View Post
That is what I have, a stage II kit. Works great and Matt at West Texas Offroad knows his stuff. The factory pump seems to work just fine with it, but I am going to add a small cooler and if I can find space a filter.

Driving on the freeway is great, it acts as like a real high pressure stabilizer. Haven't done much off-road yet, but will give it a good workout in a couple of weeks.

As is pretty normal with this kind of setup, steering is a little slower than normal and if you want to move the wheels quickly it will take a little more force than usual, but it is not really noticeable.

When off-road I think it is also remembering that just because you can turn the wheels, you may not want to. The ram will often prove to be stronger than your tie rod ends. A good rule of thumb is that if you need more than one hand on the wheel, then it is most probably too much.
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post #11 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 01:38 PM
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The same PSC Jeep JK Cylinder Assist Kit that is available through PSC for $1,700 can be purchased through Poly Performance for about $1,558.

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/...t-p-16888.html

PSC also has an upgraded steering box for the JK, for those that might not want to go all the way.

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/...s-p-16889.html
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post #12 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelW View Post
Why full hydro isn't legal on the road...
I haven't researched this much, but just a little digging shows that it may be very similar to the situation regarding bead locks. A lot of speculation and not much concrete proof. I maybe wrong, but I don't believe there is any Federal law regarding using full hydro on the roads, so any laws are likely to be State specific. A lot of heavy plant that travels on the highways is full hydro.

That said, I personally like having a mechanical link for highway use, although in reality that can fail just as easily as full hydro can.
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post #13 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Phil!

I guess I am going to have to figure just what it is I broke so I know which way to go and that will have to wait until tomorrow when I De-Mud RubiKong.

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post #14 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilD View Post
I haven't researched this much, but just a little digging shows that it may be very similar to the situation regarding bead locks. A lot of speculation and not much concrete proof. I maybe wrong, but I don't believe there is any Federal law regarding using full hydro on the roads, so any laws are likely to be State specific. A lot of heavy plant that travels on the highways is full hydro.

That said, I personally like having a mechanical link for highway use, although in reality that can fail just as easily as full hydro can.
I agree Phil. I also provided a comment that some very large commercial vehicles also are full hydro.

Nonetheless, a mechanical connection is less likely to fail verses a hydro connection that a simple leak could take out.

But if there is any laws it would probably come under the RTC and feedback portion that is lost on full hydro.

I considered a full hydro on the Isuzu but the costs of another redundant back up system is cost prohibitive.

And the final note: If you get involved in an accident with a full hydro system, I'd imagine that would create a field day for the opposing legal team.
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post #15 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelW View Post
Nonetheless, a mechanical connection is less likely to fail verses a hydro connection that a simple leak could take out.
Try driving a JK with a leak in a PS hose, no PS makes it nigh on impossible to steer, at least with 37's.


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And the final note: If you get involved in an accident with a full hydro system, I'd imagine that would create a field day for the opposing legal team.
Without a doubt, that is why you should always carry a shovel
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post #16 of 36 Old 02-09-2009, 03:28 PM
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Without a doubt, that is why you should always carry a shovel
post #17 of 36 Old 03-04-2009, 11:14 AM
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That is what I have, a stage II kit. Works great and Matt at West Texas Offroad knows his stuff. The factory pump seems to work just fine with it, but I am going to add a small cooler and if I can find space a filter.
Phil, did you get the 1.5" or 1.75" ram? What size tires are you running. Did you do the power steering pump mods that West Texas does to increase hydraulic pressure and volume? I have concerns about the stock system and the West Texas setup seems to the biggest bang for the buck. The PSC system looks great too but it's mighty pricey. I plan on adding a cooler too.

08 JKU Rubi, GM 6.2 LS, 6L80 6 sp automatic, Atlas 4 sp TC, Dynatrac ProRock 80 rear and in front PR60 w RCV shafts, DynaLock w Stub hubs, 4.88 gears and ARB Lockers, 4.0" lift, Synergy Long Arm, King coilovers, 40" Nitto's, Hutchison Rock Monster wheels, GenRight alum bumper and fenders, GenRight 20 gal aux gas tank, PSC steering, Warn Zeon 12K.

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post #18 of 36 Old 03-04-2009, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by HITMONEY View Post
Yeah, I just found that too.... $1700.00
after buying rock jocks, and all the other mods you have on it, and you will be going with 40's, you are worried about a measely $1700???
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post #19 of 36 Old 03-04-2009, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Phil, did you get the 1.5" or 1.75" ram?
1.5"

Quote:
What size tires are you running.
37's. I was planning on going to 40's, but I've decided to stick with 37's for now.

Quote:
Did you do the power steering pump mods that West Texas does to increase hydraulic pressure and volume?
West Texas Offroad did it and got it setup very nicely.

Quote:
I plan on adding a cooler too.
I added a small cooler, which drops the fluid temp by 15°.

On the street it works great, very happy with it. Off-road it is excellent, being able to turn the wheels and put them exactly where I want them is a big plus. Extremely happy with off-road performance.

For the money, I think the West Texas Offroad offer a great kit.
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post #20 of 36 Old 03-04-2009, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilD View Post
1.5"

37's. I was planning on going to 40's, but I've decided to stick with 37's for now.

West Texas Offroad did it and got it setup very nicely.

I added a small cooler, which drops the fluid temp by 15°.

On the street it works great, very happy with it. Off-road it is excellent, being able to turn the wheels and put them exactly where I want them is a big plus. Extremely happy with off-road performance.

For the money, I think the West Texas Offroad offer a great kit.
Thanks for the info. There have been times off road that I was worried about shearing my steering box sector shaft. A local off road store has been had several JK's shear the shaft and has been installing the PSC unit which includes a new steering box. The West Texas stage II kit looks like it will prevent the problem - at an affordable price.

My tie rod should be up to it as I've got the Rock Krawler HD Tie Rod. Do you think it's a good idea to replace the drag link with either the Poly Performance or RK unit?

08 JKU Rubi, GM 6.2 LS, 6L80 6 sp automatic, Atlas 4 sp TC, Dynatrac ProRock 80 rear and in front PR60 w RCV shafts, DynaLock w Stub hubs, 4.88 gears and ARB Lockers, 4.0" lift, Synergy Long Arm, King coilovers, 40" Nitto's, Hutchison Rock Monster wheels, GenRight alum bumper and fenders, GenRight 20 gal aux gas tank, PSC steering, Warn Zeon 12K.

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post #21 of 36 Old 03-04-2009, 12:39 PM
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Do you think it's a good idea to replace the drag link with either the Poly Performance or RK unit?
The stock drag link bends easily, I used to bend my just slightly every wheeling trip. A stronger drag link is a good idea, and any high steer setup is going to reward you on the highway too.
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post #22 of 36 Old 03-04-2009, 01:42 PM
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The stock drag link bends easily, I used to bend my just slightly every wheeling trip. A stronger drag link is a good idea, and any high steer setup is going to reward you on the highway too.
I've had to recenter my steering wheel quite often after wheeling and I've suspected the factory drag bar was the culprit. As I see it I have two choices as I'm not a fan of the Teraflex unit as it requires the use of a dropped pitman arm and I don't like the additional forces it places on the steering box and shaft.

That leaves Rock Krawler and Poly. The RK leaves the steering geometry as it is and cost 130 plus 120 in in ball joints. The Poly is 300 (so cost really isn't an issue), changes the steering geometry and reinforces the factory track bar bracket. I just went out and ran string between the trackbar and drag link pivot points and they are so close to parallel that I can't detect a differnce. I haven't had any issues at all with bump steer and the rig handles well on the road. Raising the roll center would be a plus with the Poly unit. It might come down to which unit is easier to adjust although hopefully it will need to be adjusted less often. Do you have any thoughts on the Poly vs the RK drag links? They are both good companies making a quality product so I have no problems with either one.

08 JKU Rubi, GM 6.2 LS, 6L80 6 sp automatic, Atlas 4 sp TC, Dynatrac ProRock 80 rear and in front PR60 w RCV shafts, DynaLock w Stub hubs, 4.88 gears and ARB Lockers, 4.0" lift, Synergy Long Arm, King coilovers, 40" Nitto's, Hutchison Rock Monster wheels, GenRight alum bumper and fenders, GenRight 20 gal aux gas tank, PSC steering, Warn Zeon 12K.

2nd Jeep is a 2014 Grand Cherokee Overland with a 5.7 Hemi, Quadra-Lift Suspension and Quadra-Drive II. My wife says I can't do anything to it!
post #23 of 36 Old 03-04-2009, 01:56 PM
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It might come down to which unit is easier to adjust although hopefully it will need to be adjusted less often.
I rarely have to adjust my drag link after wheeling since running the Poly one, and it is very to adjust, just undo the clamp bolt and rotate the sleeve.

Quote:
Do you have any thoughts on the Poly vs the RK drag links? They are both good companies making a quality product so I have no problems with either one.
I don't think you'll go wrong with either. I can only speak for the Poly one as I have it, but I've been very happy with it and it's worked well for me with quite a bit of abuse.
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post #24 of 36 Old 07-07-2009, 07:24 AM
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Hey Phil, it's been a while now since you've done your hydro... any issues? Also, could you post some pictures of your mounts.
The lack of steering is getting obnoxious IMO... it's so bad we even stopped in a field for lunch this past weekend, I went to move out of a tight situation of parked Jeeps and couldn't turn the wheel at all, even when getting the rpms up. Let alone on rocks with the front locker locked...

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post #25 of 36 Old 07-07-2009, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by HITMONEY View Post
Ok, now that I have seen a couple kits I am clear... thanks. None of the ones I am looking at are full hydro.


I beg to differ. I have full hydraulic steering and you can still steer it when the motor is off even though it's tough.

It doesn't return to center just like stock steering but it DOESN'T stay where you let go of the wheel at, it does come back on it's own some what but just not all the way.



This just sound like a excuse for the non experienced. Drive a 08 jk with full hydraulic steering and you will see that there's not a big difference in FEEL.

A) relational and variable in input vs output. ie your factory power steering provides a "feel" for the road and applies turning power variably depending on speed.


2008 X- Red Rock, w/Rockwells on the install

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