Please Help, Bad Driveline Vibes! - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
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post #1 of 18 Old 05-29-2011, 07:03 AM Thread Starter
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Please Help, Bad Driveline Vibes!

Ok,

2010 2dr rubicon

Ever since installing a Teraflex 2.5 coil lift (4dr springs) I have had some bad rhythmic driveline vibrations at around 40mph and then again at 50-65 mph!

Had this problem with stock driveshafts tried adjusting the Teraflex front lower control arms with no effect.

Replaced driveshafts with Coast shafts = Same driveline vibration.

U joints all seated correctly also

when I replaced them I took a drive with the front DS out and smooth no vibes! Put the front in and vibes are back. Adjusted control arms to no effect and my front lowers right now are set to stock length 22 5/8"

I had the tires balanced x2 and had an alignment done x2 no effect!

Axles are centered perfectly! Could shifting them one way or the other correct this problem? it seems to get worse at a half tank of fuel which I think is weird.

I am at a complete loss at this point and desperately need help!

attached rear and front pinion angles, sorry for the sideways photos. rear = 12 degrees at pinion and 12 at DS angle

front is set with angle finder right now at 5 degrees caster LCA are set to factory lengths 22 5/8" and can only go 2 turns shorter on control arms when they were set at 22 3/4" with stock DS caster was 4.2 and 4.4 why does it seem like the caster grew when I went shorter with the LCA?

Also I did notice that I have some slight side to side up down movement on the yoke at the front output of the transfer case and was told that a slight play is normal?
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Last edited by PmedicJ; 05-29-2011 at 07:17 AM.
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post #2 of 18 Old 05-29-2011, 03:51 PM
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I have slight play in my T-case as well. Actually you can move my whole case up and down by grabbing the shaft and jerking it. I was wondering if that may be why I have slight vibes at certain speeds. I have Tattons but still have slight vibes. With all the steps you have taken to try to correct it maybe make sure the front drive shaft is balanced just to rule that out as well at this point. Maybe re check the torque on the nuts as well where they meet the diff and case.
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post #3 of 18 Old 05-29-2011, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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my rear is dead nuts on, but do you think that slight angle on the front looks like it may cause vibes?

even though my axles appear to be centered, I wonder if I have any horizontal misalignment?
what's the best way to check that? measure from the frame to the center of the output on both tc and pinion?

Last edited by PmedicJ; 05-29-2011 at 06:04 PM.
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post #4 of 18 Old 05-29-2011, 06:20 PM
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stupid question have you removed the front ds to eliminate it as the cause or verify it as the cause. I had a strange vibe at 8-10 and then again at 60-65 it was the damn tires doing it to me.

hell your DS angle looks better than mine

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This is one reason I have a strict policy of not eating anything out of another dudes butt. Flick it with my tongue? Sure. Run my tongue around the rim? Depends. Dart my tongue in for a brief second? Maybe. Eat something out of it? No fuckin' way!
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post #5 of 18 Old 05-29-2011, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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yes i did remove it no vibes.
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post #6 of 18 Old 05-29-2011, 06:43 PM
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gotta be a balance issue or axle centered issue then

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This is one reason I have a strict policy of not eating anything out of another dudes butt. Flick it with my tongue? Sure. Run my tongue around the rim? Depends. Dart my tongue in for a brief second? Maybe. Eat something out of it? No fuckin' way!
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post #7 of 18 Old 05-29-2011, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PmedicJ View Post
yes i did remove it no vibes.
Taking off the drive shaft might just take out the part that transfers the vibes from the axle to the body. What tire pressure do you run. I say this as when I had my vibe at 30 and 45 mph, I thought it was the drive shaft. I balanced and re balanced my tires, and used dynabeads and it still did it a little. I lowered the air pressure in my tires and the vibration is gone. Also, could be ball joints to.

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post #8 of 18 Old 05-29-2011, 06:48 PM
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I'm running COAST shafts front and rear,with a 2dr.I have a 2.5 teraflex lift
my rear pinion is dead on like yours between 12/13*,my front look exactly
like yours the problem is that so far I did not experience any vibs actually better than stock!
are your shaft 1350 all around and 1310 for the front pinion?
now my shafts they went on with the aluminum adaptor flanges that you see on the web site,one for the rear pinion,one for the t-case front output,and I had to replace the rear output flange on the t-case,so basically I did't have to mess with the pinion nut in the back.
I hope you find your issue soon good luck!
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post #9 of 18 Old 05-29-2011, 07:03 PM
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You have the normal lifted "JK Shake". The pinion/caster angles of JK's front axle are difficult to adjust to a compromise where you have eliminated the vibration, and at the same time have acceptable handling. Whatever, you need to get it dialed out of there, it's not OK to leave it.

At 5 degrees caster you have a lot of room to maneuver, try dialing it back to about 3.5 degrees and see if the vibration goes away. Some of the guys on the Forum say they're runnin g at as little as 2.5 degrees and it's fine.

Sounds like you've dialed the lower arms back about as far as you can, so if you have to extend the upper arms that's ok. On TF's upper arms you can't shorten them less than 19 1/4" using the outer holes on the forks. You can adjust them shorter than that by using the inner holes, but you should cut the outer part of the fork off so it won't bind on the housing when the suspension is fully extended.

At only 2.5" you should be able to run the stock control arm lengths (22 5/8" lower, 18 3/4" upper) and be pretty close for starters. Just leave the lowers where you have them and roll the caster out by extending the uppers until you find a sweet spot.

As for the rear, try setting the pinion angle 1 degree less than the drive shaft angle. This will eliminate any vibes on acceleration.
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post #10 of 18 Old 05-29-2011, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice.
Tomorrow is my last day messing with it, I will spend the day trying to get the vibes out and then I'm done! I will either drive it until something blows up or I trade it for a 2012!

I have spent too much time and money already on this thing trying to work out way too many bugs! My wife says I spend too much time under the jeep instead of under her!

By far the worst vehicle I have ever owned, But the most fun! This love hate relationship is taking it's toll in favor of dumping it right now!

Very frustrated!!!!
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post #11 of 18 Old 05-29-2011, 09:26 PM
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Building a JK is not for the faint of heart (or wallet). It's a great suspension design but it demands attention to detail and doesn't take kindly to misalignment. Most aggravating build I've ever done, but, due to the JK's design, one of the most complex. You just have to stay with it.
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post #12 of 18 Old 05-31-2011, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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spent the day adjusting everything, Still rhythmic pulsing / vibration at 62-68 mph.
I thought I had it licked after I shortened my front LCA's all the way down. I am currently at 22 1/2" shorter than stock arms running 3.5 degrees caster and a similiar pinion angle. It rides fantastic, even better than I thought and better than it did with 4.5 degrees caster, but no dice on the vibes!
Then I took the front DS out of the equation and drove it to the MPH range and got the vibes in the back so I know where I would concentrate on next!

I was currently running a 0' degree angle between DS / pinion. went 1 degree up and down, no dice vibes!

Had my tires rebalanced again and they said they were off and also the other shop counterbalanced them with weights all over the place. Better ride but also made it focus more on the vibes!

Called coast and they said pinion down at least 2 degrees and give it a shot!

Well I got it down to 2 degrees of an angle and it is better I would like to get it down a hair more and I think I would be Money!!!

Unfortunately I am at the shortest I can go with my rear upper arms at the moment and can't do it!

I think I should just order the 3" coils or a 3/4" spacer so it has more of a negative angle on the pinion and then maybe I could just lengthen my control arms back into an acceptable range. Would this work???? it kind of makes sense! maybe my lift needs more lift for all the accessories???
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post #13 of 18 Old 06-01-2011, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoK66 View Post
At 5 degrees caster you have a lot of room to maneuver, try dialing it back to about 3.5 degrees and see if the vibration goes away. Some of the guys on the Forum say they're runnin g at as little as 2.5 degrees and it's fine.
X2 I'm running less 2.5 caster and have no real issues with it. I've found that a pinion angle much over 5 at the front will cause vibration and may lead to further damage.

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post #14 of 18 Old 06-01-2011, 12:52 PM
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I'm right at 5 degrees but have manual hubs so it's no issue.
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post #15 of 18 Old 06-01-2011, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PmedicJ View Post
Unfortunately I am at the shortest I can go with my rear upper arms at the moment and can't do it!
TF's upper rear arms are a bit too long. I had the same issue with the uppers and had to extend the lower arms just a bit to dial it in.
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post #16 of 18 Old 06-01-2011, 07:01 PM
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I have the same lift on an '08 Unlimited Rubi. Exactly the same issue. For me it started about 20K miles after the lift (at 107K now). The dealer has diagnosed it as bad front pinion bearings. Very loose. The rears are excessively worn as well, they say. The mechanic states it is a flaw in diff fluid flow on the front diff, causing premature failure of the bearings. It's in the shop right now with the pinions and bearings in both diffs being replaced. I get it back tomorrow. I'll post as to whether it actually fixed the problem.

Last edited by GunnersJK; 06-02-2011 at 06:41 PM.
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post #17 of 18 Old 06-02-2011, 06:41 PM
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Okay, just picked up the Jeep. Drove it 20 miles home. Issue is resolved, for the moment.

Again, I have a 2.5" TF shock and spring lift. I installed the lift myself around 75K miles. New 34" GY MTR/K's at 79K miles. The rhythmic, pulsing, deep throated driveline hum started up around 95K I'd guess. I'm at 107K right now.

I talked to the tech before and after repair. Oddly enough considering I'm in Florida, he's a rock jockey. He builds and wheels rock buggies as a hobby. Owns three of them, so he's actually qualified to figure this out. For everyone's benefit I'm typing out the writeup from my receipt from the service.

"Customer states that there is a whinning noise from the vehicle at about 45 mph. Road tested and heard loud growling sound and whining sound on accell. Found front drive shaft wobbling. When inspected vehicle in air found both inner axle seals appear to be leaking and fluid level low. Rear pinion seal leaking and rear pinon shafts loose. Attempted to tighten pinion shafts but then noise got louder Removed front and rear diff covers to check gears and bearings. Found front ring gear worn badly and pinion bearing failed. Also carrier bearing severely pitted due to metal in oil. Replaced ring and pinion gear and all diff bearings and seals. Replaced damaged diff lock sensor and reassembled. Rear axle pinion bearing loose and carrier bearings pitted from metal in oil. RR axle seal leaking, pinion seal leaking. Replaced pinion bearing and carrier bearing. Replaced both rear axle seals. Reset Pinion Depth and backlash. Road tested to verify repair."

He showed me the front ring and pinion gears he took out. He had to explain it, but once I understood what I was looking for the wear was obvious. The rear gears were fine. The dealer had been in the front diff before for another issue some time ago, and the unofficial consensus was that they had not set the pinion depth properly at that time, resulting in premature wear. Or an oil issue because it doesn't flow well back to the pinion bearing.

So my noise was diff related. One more option to throw into the mix.
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post #18 of 18 Old 06-02-2011, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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Almost got the vibes out!

I extended my rear uppers pointed pinion way up, I have a 1.5 degree positive pinion / DS angle it looks slightly pointed up and the rear sway bar links are almost touching the control arm mounts but it rides better and no vibes from the back.

The front was vibrating so I managed to squeeze 1 turn shorter on the LCA's steering is fine and caster is a little less than 3 degrees. I still have some vibrations but it actually moved the range higher in the MPH and less pronounced where it seems to be drivable.

I need to point that pinion up about 1 more turn and I think I would be money!

Problem is I have no more room to move I am shorter than stock right now!

What to do? can I shave off a bit of the end of the control arm I only need about a half turns worth to make it go another full turn.
or buy UCA's
I am running out of funds and patience

Also spoke to a couple of people that said they thought theirs was driveline vibes also and chased it till no end and when they bought new tires it completely went away completely even though they also had their tires balanced multiple times.
could this be my problem they are stock rubi tires that had 7000 miles on them before the lift?

Last edited by PmedicJ; 06-02-2011 at 08:53 PM.
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