Anti-squat: what is it exactly? - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 Old 05-26-2011, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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Anti-squat: what is it exactly?

I bought the Rock Krawler 3.5 midarm xfactor plus lift. My club pres just installed a 2 post lift in his garage and I am first in line to take advantage of it! As it turned out, I was missing the "plus" part in my order and got to thinking - Do I really need this adjustable anti-squat feature with a mid arm setup?

Search did not bring up much info except certain long arm lift methods seem to affect squat more than others. I am curious as to what squat means on the trails and how adjusting anti-squat helps me out. Silly me, I thought that since RK offered it I probably needed it. If it is not a significant add-on, I may press on with the project and install that later after it arrives.

My intentions are to have 37's with this midarm kit and Bushwacker flats. My club goes places where someone seems to break something every time they go (TJ's). I hope not to be one of the casualties! The project includes the usual gusset and axle sleeve and ball joint mods.
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post #2 of 13 Old 05-27-2011, 08:15 AM
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Anti squat is how the rear end will act under throttle rather it will raise or lower. I say install it and if you have an antisqaut problem order the adjuster.
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post #3 of 13 Old 05-27-2011, 09:45 AM
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Not an issue at all on the trail, in fact vehicles with lots of squat tend to be really capable off-road. Rock crawlers and Desert racers have tons of squat.

Squat (or I have heard it called "dive" by racers) is more of a control issue on the street during hard breaking. Too much anti squat is worse than not enough, because it tends to cause wheel-hop. Squat in the rear of leaf-sprung rigs is bad because it can cause axle-wrap, but coil sprung Jeeps have no issues that I am aware of. Most of the beefy suspension components that come with modern lift kits are more than capable of handling the stress of Squat during hard breaking. RK claims to have really minimized squat with the plus kit, but to be honest, how many people running other kits ever complain about squat? I don't think I have heard anyone complaining about it.

If I paid for the "plus" kit, I would wait for the missing part and install what I paid for.
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post #4 of 13 Old 05-27-2011, 09:48 AM
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Anti Squat doesn't allow the gear to retract when there is weight upon the gear.

2009 JK Rubicon Unlimited. Rock Hard skids, Skidrow Control Arm Skids, Shrockworks bumpers. Pro Comp 2" Puck Lift.
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post #5 of 13 Old 05-27-2011, 11:13 AM
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I've found that too much anti-squat causes the vehicle to torque up under acceleration (or torque load). You'll notice this when a vehicle goes to neutral and the vehicle lowers, sometimes very dramatically.
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post #6 of 13 Old 05-27-2011, 11:16 AM
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Someone please correct me if I am wrong but isnt the Anti squat in the Rock Krawler kit set by the adjustable third link that sits over the drive shaft?
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post #7 of 13 Old 05-27-2011, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
Someone please correct me if I am wrong but isnt the Anti squat in the Rock Krawler kit set by the adjustable third link that sits over the drive shaft?
Yes.
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post #8 of 13 Old 05-27-2011, 12:12 PM
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Anti-Squat is it is commonly referred to is actually a simple change in the instant center(s) geometry of the rear suspension. When you run the factory arrangement from the stock pivot points with "lift" which is commonly done it changes the relative position of the instant center(s). We do not go crazy adding a ton of anti-squat to the JK's since it is really not needed on a high level. With the adjustable setup we offer you can go from 10 to 15 % increase in anti-squat. That is it.

The real big benefit of the plus system compared to our standard X Factor or factory replacement arrangement is the change over from a 5 link rear arrangement to an independent 3 link with a track bar. This greatly free(s) up the rear suspension to allow a tremendous amount of articulation without bind. There are many benefits to it, especially for off-road use...

Hope that helps.

RK
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post #9 of 13 Old 05-27-2011, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desert dog View Post
Not an issue at all on the trail, in fact vehicles with lots of squat tend to be really capable off-road. Rock crawlers and Desert racers have tons of squat.

Squat (or I have heard it called "dive" by racers) is more of a control issue on the street during hard breaking. Too much anti squat is worse than not enough, because it tends to cause wheel-hop. Squat in the rear of leaf-sprung rigs is bad because it can cause axle-wrap, but coil sprung Jeeps have no issues that I am aware of. Most of the beefy suspension components that come with modern lift kits are more than capable of handling the stress of Squat during hard breaking. RK claims to have really minimized squat with the plus kit, but to be honest, how many people running other kits ever complain about squat? I don't think I have heard anyone complaining about it.

If I paid for the "plus" kit, I would wait for the missing part and install what I paid for.
I think you are confusing squat and dive.

Dive would be when applying the brakes the weight transfer acting on the front suspension. It is seen by the front end "diving" under braking and or off throttle.
Squat is the adverse effect. Setting the suspension to "squat" in on throttle situations.
The idea is that the lower end of the vehicle as more transfered weight and better traction.

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post #10 of 13 Old 05-27-2011, 05:01 PM
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Pretty sure RK's adjustability in this system is not designed to address any "issues", but more so to give the customer the ability to fine-tune their suspension to fit their needs.

Squat can be a really good thing in some situations, and a not-so-good thing in other situations.

Adjusting the vertical separation between the upper and lower control arms at the axle and/or the frame just changes the leverage points where the drive/brake torque will be applied to the frame. These leverage points are what determine how the Jeep will react to the torque. RK gives you the ability to dial that in for different wheeling scenarios, but your JK will still handle safely on the street in any of the settings.
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post #11 of 13 Old 05-27-2011, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Co4Lo View Post
Pretty sure RK's adjustability in this system is not designed to address any "issues", but more so to give the customer the ability to fine-tune their suspension to fit their needs.

Squat can be a really good thing in some situations, and a not-so-good thing in other situations.

Adjusting the vertical separation between the upper and lower control arms at the axle and/or the frame just changes the leverage points where the drive/brake torque will be applied to the frame. These leverage points are what determine how the Jeep will react to the torque. RK gives you the ability to dial that in for different wheeling scenarios, but your JK will still handle safely on the street in any of the settings.
Pretty much what he said. Your not installing or custom fabbing a suspension RK has done all the work install your kit and go wheeling!
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post #12 of 13 Old 05-28-2011, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Krawler Suspension View Post
Anti-Squat is it is commonly referred to is actually a simple change in the instant center(s) geometry of the rear suspension. When you run the factory arrangement from the stock pivot points with "lift" which is commonly done it changes the relative position of the instant center(s). We do not go crazy adding a ton of anti-squat to the JK's since it is really not needed on a high level. With the adjustable setup we offer you can go from 10 to 15 % increase in anti-squat. That is it.

The real big benefit of the plus system compared to our standard X Factor or factory replacement arrangement is the change over from a 5 link rear arrangement to an independent 3 link with a track bar. This greatly free(s) up the rear suspension to allow a tremendous amount of articulation without bind. There are many benefits to it, especially for off-road use...

Hope that helps.

RK
Thank you that does clear things up. I have been waiting a long time for this project to take off. Looking forward to having it all come together.
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post #13 of 13 Old 05-28-2011, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixerupper View Post
Anti-squat: What is is exactly?
Being sure there's an outhouse every mile on the trail before you ask her to come along....
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