Brake Upgrades - Rebel and Others - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 02:01 PM Thread Starter
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Brake Upgrades - Rebel and Others

Without upgrading the calipers themselves there are only so many things one can do to increase stopping power.

Obviously lowering the weight of the vehicle is one, but more likely we are trying to compensate for the added weight of bumpers, armor, and other bits.

Rotors generally aren't going to affect stopping power unless you have a debris clearing problem. In which case the slotted rotors will be helpful. The cross-drilling is useless on a JK because the brakes never get that hot. Never mind that gassing isn't something consumer brake pads deal with anymore.

What I am curious about is how these pads stack up and what application they are designed for.

If you were to tell me your pad makes less noise and less dust than the OEM pad I would assume your pad will have about the same stopping power. Generally you have to sacrifice for performance. e.g noise and dust.

Most aftermarket pads are designed to resist heat but in doing so they don't work well when cold.

Depending on the type of wheeling you do this may or may not be an issue. I imagine if you are on the brakes all the time this would be beneficial.

If you can rely on your engine to slow you down then your brakes might not get as hot and thusly not perform as well.

So to those of you selling brake kits. Or those of you who have upgraded your pads. Please fill me in on what has worked for you and what conditions it has worked under.


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post #2 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 02:09 PM
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Subscribed! I don't know a whole lot in this area other than I'd like a little more stopping power..but on 15"s my options are pretty limited..for pads I went with therma quiets..they work as you described,I never hear them so that's a plus


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post #3 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 02:24 PM
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Ceramic pad front and rear, and the Rebel slotted/ drilled rear rotors helped quite a bit. Front rotors next.

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post #4 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
Ceramic pad front and rear, and the Rebel slotted/ drilled rear rotors helped quite a bit. Front rotors next.
I have a feeling the pad alone with brand new OEM-spec rotors will give you the exact same feeling that you have with that pad and the fancy rotors.

Of course if you are going to do your brakes like that everyone changes both so it is hard to know exactly which caused the increase in braking performance.

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post #5 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by binarypie View Post
I have a feeling the pad alone with brand new OEM-spec rotors will give you the exact same feeling that you have with that pad and the fancy rotors.

Of course if you are going to do your brakes like that everyone changes both so it is hard to know exactly which caused the increase in braking performance.
I changed the rear pads first- absolutely no performance change with the Auto-Zone ceramics.

Few months later, I replaced the rear rotors. BIG difference/ improvement.

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post #6 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 03:13 PM
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What about just putting better rotors on my front think that help?


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post #7 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nootherride View Post
What about just putting better rotors on my front think that help?

Front pads should be where your stopping power is.


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Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
I changed the rear pads first- absolutely no performance change with the Auto-Zone ceramics.

Few months later, I replaced the rear rotors. BIG difference/ improvement.
How worn were your rotors?
Did you change all 4 or just the rears?
Did you feel your braking bias change?
If you changed all 4 rotors did you change your front pads as well?

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post #8 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 03:20 PM
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I will be changing my stock pads out for a full set of Hawk pads in the next week.

I will let you know if I notice any difference.
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post #9 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 03:25 PM Thread Starter
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I will be changing my stock pads out for a full set of Hawk pads in the next week.

I will let you know if I notice any difference.
Oh this would be awesome!

I ran Hawk HP+ in my GTI which is a track-orientated pad.

If you look at their Jeep offerings they have the HPS and Ceramic.

Given how I drive my Jeep the Ceramic seem like the better option here as I could see the HPS being miserable unless they are warmed up.

Which did you end up getting?

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post #10 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by binarypie View Post
Front pads should be where your stopping power is.




How worn were your rotors?
Did you change all 4 or just the rears?
Did you feel your braking bias change?
If you changed all 4 rotors did you change your front pads as well?
The rear rotors weren't bad at all. Not much wear. Still a noticeable improvement. Just changed the rears. Will get drilled/ slotted rotors for the front sometime soon. The pedal felt slightly more firm- not greatly, but you don't have to get on it like before. Changed all pads to ceramic. If I could do it again- I would go with the Green Stuff pads.

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post #11 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
The rear rotors weren't bad at all. Not much wear. Still a noticeable improvement. Just changed the rears. Will get drilled/ slotted rotors for the front sometime soon. The pedal felt slightly more firm- not greatly, but you don't have to get on it like before. Changed all pads to ceramic. If I could do it again- I would go with the Green Stuff pads.
Cool! Thanks for the info!

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post #12 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 03:35 PM
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I have the Hawk LTS on order. They should be in next week and I will let you know.
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post #13 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 03:51 PM
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I've got the Rebel kit on order from Marcus. Everything is just a direct replacement for the stock pads and rotors, so they should be able to get installed some time next week. I'll post results afterward.
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post #14 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 04:05 PM
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Hawk ceramics front and HP rear, Rebel rotors all around on my 60's, better stopping now than with OE rubi 44's and pads...

Looking for calipers now.... And maybe teraflex HD master cylinder in the mix..

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post #15 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 04:42 PM
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I recently switched to Ceramic pads all around. They do stop better but they make a little noise when my foot is barley on the brake pedal. Gets kinda annoying sometimes.
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post #16 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 05:20 PM
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I plan to do "old school" semi metallic pads, thinking rabestes
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post #17 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 05:36 PM
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Subscribing.

I've been debating between the Rebel kit, TF big brake kit, or just Hawk pads.

I haven't had any stopping issues with the stock setup, but if I can improve it when the time to change comes, I will.

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post #18 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bullitt View Post
Subscribing.

I've been debating between the Rebel kit, TF big brake kit, or just Hawk pads.

I haven't had any stopping issues with the stock setup, but if I can improve it when the time to change comes, I will.
TF front slotted, Rebel rear, you can do hawk pads. If you Do do the TF kit may require the HD master cylinder.

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post #19 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
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Front pads should be where your stopping power is.
That used to be the case, but many of today's vehicles TCS and ABS systems are biased to the rear. This is why the rear pads usually wear out before the fronts.
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post #20 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 07:57 PM
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post #21 of 29 Old 05-19-2011, 08:14 PM
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post #22 of 29 Old 05-20-2011, 12:27 AM
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That used to be the case, but many of today's vehicles TCS and ABS systems are biased to the rear. This is why the rear pads usually wear out before the fronts.
Correct about the ABS and TCS, but I wouldn't say they are biased more to the front. That would make no sense, unless the manufacturer wants people to crash into stuff.

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post #23 of 29 Old 05-20-2011, 07:41 AM
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True

Brake bias is beyond my knowledge so I may well be wrong, which wouldn't be the first time. Many factors such as weight distribution, front or rear wheel drive, weight transfer, deceleration, forces on CoG, etc, all come into play. However, I have seen mention several times that many modern vehicles, especially heavy SUV's have less front bias and even sometimes rear bias.

Obviously, they don't go to the point that makes the vehicle unstable or dangerous, but the optimum brake bias isn't always towards the front. Not only can too much bias one way or the other cause stability issues, it will also reduce stopping distances.

It is usual to wear the front pads faster, as the weight transfer is towards the front, so they need to do more work especially if the vehicle is to remain stable. With heavy vehicles with a high CoG you don't necessarily want too much weight transfer to the front. With the advent of goodies like ABS and TCS manufacturers can safely have have the rear brakes doing more work than previously without the issues usually associated. A lot of vehicles these days, especially SUV's, will wear the rear pads faster the front.

Of course it could just be that the factory rear pads are inferior to the front so some bean counter can save 43c.

Time to get out the IR thermometer and do an experiment
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post #24 of 29 Old 05-20-2011, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrelopez99 View Post
TF front slotted, Rebel rear, you can do hawk pads. If you Do do the TF kit may require the HD master cylinder.
Sounds like that would be a pretty good setup!


As far as front vs rear bias...seems if there was any rear bias, there would be big brake kits for the rears instead of the front. I think the rear pads wear faster due to traction control systems seem to use the rear brakes.....but my opinion is only academic and my book is old, so don't quote anything I say.

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post #25 of 29 Old 05-20-2011, 08:15 AM
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A quick unscientific test did not produce any conclusive results.

I braked hard, but enough to kick in the ABS, several times from 60 mph, and measured the temp of the rotor just in front of the caliper.

Run 1
Front - 126F
Rear - 129F

Run 2
Front - 129F
Rear - 132F

Run 3
Front - 135F
Rear - 139F

There is a small difference front to rear, but this could be simply caused by better cooling at the front, or it could be a sign that the rears are doing more work.

Someone smarter than me can answer this better
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