lots of weight in rear messing up my suspension, opinions needed. - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
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post #1 of 18 Old 05-07-2011, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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lots of weight in rear messing up my suspension, opinions needed.

I have a Ulimited JK with a good amount of weight on it (ARB tent, Gobi rack, lod fullwidth rear, highlift, corner armor and 35's, stock front bumper still).

I have Front and Rear JKS adjustable trackbars, Front Discos, Front Upper Control arms, and had 2.5" terra flex springs and shocks front and rear(9550). I had so much sag in the rear I put 4" terra flex springs in the rear to get the back end back up. Currently the rear sits about 1/2" higher then the front. When I load it for camping it will be closer to level, but I might just put some spacers in the front to help level it along with a front bumper.

With this setup I have a ton of rear sway and steering delay when changing lanes or going around corners to the point where it feels unstable to drive. I am wondering what the best way to get rid of this is.

Should I preload my rear sway with adjustable rear links by putting them to +15 degrees or so? (currently sitting at about -5 degrees which I think it should be closer to +5)

Should I get a larger rear sway bar?

Should I do a swaybar and some adjustable or stiffer shocks?

Should I do new springs and shocks all together?

I do mostly highway driving with very mild offroad, more of a camper then crawler.
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post #2 of 18 Old 05-07-2011, 09:52 PM
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Maybe look into some of the Old Man Emu heavy load springs or some Airlift air bags that go inside the coil spring. Also, depending on how your tent opens, can you move it to the front of the rack? That would distribute the load a little better. I had my rack loaded with all my camping gear and over the back it sagged however once I moved it to the front it leveled the Jeep out.

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post #3 of 18 Old 05-08-2011, 12:22 AM
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I just swapped out to some heavier rear springs (Superlift Yukon springs) and it helped the on road drivability quite a bit. I was going to run air bags and actually bought a set but I'm running about 14" of travel in the rear and by the time I set up the spring retainers, the airbag didn't really fit.
For your application, I would definately try the airbags. You will firm it up, cut some of the sway and be able to adjust them to your liking.
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post #4 of 18 Old 05-08-2011, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidg View Post
.... Rear JKS adjustable trackbars.........I had so much sag in the rear I put 4" terra flex springs in the rear to get the back end back up. ...........

With this setup I have a ton of rear sway and steering delay when changing lanes or going around corners to the point where it feels unstable to drive. I am wondering what the best way to get rid of this is.

Should I preload my rear sway with adjustable rear links...
First off there is no way to "preload" a sway bar.

This is where you need to start. You mention a rear adjustable track bar and 4" springs (albeit compressed). Did you raise the mounting position of the rear track bar on the axle? This will raise the roll center and basically make the rear harder to roll. I would WAG 3" inches from your description plus, most of the aftermarket brackets give you that height... 1/2" - 1" off either direction is close enough.

You have mentioned putting on 4" springs so, a suggestion to get stiffer springs would be tall order. (I love puns)

You are barking up the wrong tree with different shocks....this would be in the same category of trying to fix DW with a steering stablizer.

Lastly, a beefier sway bar (after the roll center is fixed) would be the fix. The problem here is most aftermarket ones give you less resistance, not more. This is a JK so, most people want more articulation than load carrying capibility.

From your use maybe you might want to check into a off-road trailer?? Of course, I might must have that on my brain since I just ordered one...

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Last edited by toymaster; 05-08-2011 at 01:12 AM.
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post #5 of 18 Old 05-08-2011, 06:41 AM
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Unless you need it, ditch the corner armor and get a different rear bumper. I had a LoD ...good bumper, but they weigh a metric ton.

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post #6 of 18 Old 05-08-2011, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toymaster View Post
First off there is no way to "preload" a sway bar.
Actually there is. But it would do nothing for the OP's issues.
People sometimes "preload" it by turning one link shorter/longer than the other to get rid of lean.
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post #7 of 18 Old 05-08-2011, 09:19 AM
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Actually there is. But it would do nothing for the OP's issues.
People sometimes "preload" it by turning one link shorter/longer than the other to get rid of lean.
I knew someone was going to bring that up. Using the word preload in that context is stretching the definition.

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post #8 of 18 Old 05-08-2011, 03:09 PM
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Rear weight

ARB Super heavy duty rear coils - i think they are 620's, and airbags. Airbags will not make your ride less comfy when unlaiden, and will help carry the weight, and improve sway when cornering. Mono tube style shocks will also improve the sway when cornering.
OME and ARB stuff is made for this, heavy loads and touring the Oz outback. They actually made heavier rated coils rather then suggesting you go to a 4" coil to gain a 3" lift with the extra weight.

Last edited by spinner; 05-08-2011 at 11:20 PM.
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post #9 of 18 Old 05-09-2011, 07:46 AM
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AEV (American Expedition Vehicles) springs handle lots of rear weight well and were specifically designed with that in mind. I've run with a about a hundred fifty pounds in the cargo area, four hundred pounds in a hitch hauler, two 65lb dogs in the rear seat, my son and I in the front seats and the Jeep still drives well. (But 50lbs more in the hitch hauler and I started to notice the rear end getting that mushy feeling - since my load was intermittent, I didn't air up the rear tires, but it would have helped.)

If you search you'll find that the Mopar Overland concept vehicle, which has an ARB rack, RTT, water tank, etc, etc, etc, has an AEV 3.5" suspension on it. Also, the Adventure Trailers demo JKU Flip Pac Jeep which has the Flip Pac top with the flip open tent feature, water tank, electric pump, shower, etc, etc, has an AEV suspension. The Earthroamer demo/exposition Jeep also ended up with an AEV suspension after a pieced together suspension ultimately failed.

I believe AEV's rear track bar bracket raises the bar higher than others, in any event, it gets rid of body lean.

One simple suggestions I refferred to above, raise the pressure in your rear tires, if you haven't done it yet it will make a substantial difference.

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post #10 of 18 Old 05-09-2011, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the good non-biased opinions and help here. How much lift do the aev 3.5" net and could I keep my terra flex 9550 shocks? Really don't want to go much higher then 3" because I think to much height just makes my problem worse with the higer center of gravity and trying to refrain from buying driveshafts and more control arms.

I put a similar post over at JK forum and it's funny how I get the same responses over and over buy this specific product from this specific vendor.
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post #11 of 18 Old 05-09-2011, 10:19 AM
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If you want just the 3.5 springs let me know id be willing to part with mine

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post #12 of 18 Old 05-09-2011, 10:37 AM
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Thanks for all the good non-biased opinions and help here.....
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post #13 of 18 Old 05-09-2011, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidg View Post
Thanks for all the good non-biased opinions and help here. How much lift do the aev 3.5" net and could I keep my terra flex 9550 shocks? Really don't want to go much higher then 3" because I think to much height just makes my problem worse with the higer center of gravity and trying to refrain from buying driveshafts and more control arms.

I put a similar post over at JK forum and it's funny how I get the same responses over and over buy this specific product from this specific vendor.
No telling for sure, but AEV makes their springs with the weight of their bumpers, corner gaurds and a winch in mind. I believe that every AEV lifted JKU I've seen has some rake to it when otherwise empty too. I have to guess, but I think with the weight you have in the rear, along with the lack of weight in the front that you'de be level or maybe a tad nose high when fully loaded. AEV makes a 3/4" puck to accomodate those Jeeps with a Hemi. That puck goes in the front, maybe it would fit in the back if you need it. Or add the front bumper and winch, at least the winch, to make things a bit more even.

My Jeep has the weight and some that AEV anticipates, including a winch. The rear compresses as I add bags of corn to the hitch hauler, but its riding level with the rear cargo area full of rifles, shotguns and other hunting gear plus 350-400lbs of corn and the rack itself.

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post #14 of 18 Old 05-10-2011, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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If you want just the 3.5 springs let me know id be willing to part with mine
how many miles on the springs, and how much shipped to 80304?

Does anybody know the spring rate on the AEV's? I think they are progressive so it's a little different then some of the others.

I looked into it, the terraflex springs I have are 200 pounds per inch just like the 620's that OME makes, the 618's are only 175 pounds per inch. So I don't know if springs will help that much, but the AEV's might or just slightly smaller ones in general then the 4".

I am first getting a lower terraflex track bar bracket to bring the track bar to it's original angle and getting adjustable rear sway endlinks from JKS to bring the sway bar to around +10 degrees. This will be followed by an alingment and see how it drives from there. Think I will be swapping out my 9550 shocks afterwards for either Rancho 9000XL, Blistein 5100/5160 or Fox adjustable. Thinking the Fox adjustable with res in back and normal Fox 2.0 in the front. Pretty sure those Terraflex shocks are really soft.
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post #15 of 18 Old 05-10-2011, 04:25 PM
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I have the RK springs and shocks and it sits level regardless of all the stuff I put in the back to include tire chains.
This was not the case with a different lift I had on another JK.
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post #16 of 18 Old 05-10-2011, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepnick View Post
If you want just the 3.5 springs let me know id be willing to part with mine
Quote:
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how many miles on the springs, and how much shipped to 80304?

Does anybody know the spring rate on the AEV's? I think they are progressive so it's a little different then some of the others.

I looked into it, the terraflex springs I have are 200 pounds per inch just like the 620's that OME makes, the 618's are only 175 pounds per inch. So I don't know if springs will help that much, but the AEV's might or just slightly smaller ones in general then the 4".

I am first getting a lower terraflex track bar bracket to bring the track bar to it's original angle and getting adjustable rear sway endlinks from JKS to bring the sway bar to around +10 degrees. This will be followed by an alingment and see how it drives from there. Think I will be swapping out my 9550 shocks afterwards for either Rancho 9000XL, Blistein 5100/5160 or Fox adjustable. Thinking the Fox adjustable with res in back and normal Fox 2.0 in the front. Pretty sure those Terraflex shocks are really soft.


You should hit Nick up for those and try to talk him out of his shocks too.

Those teraflex shocks are kinda known for being soft and squishy. As much as I dislike the rest of the aev kit, those springs and shocks do work well and would be a good addition or to build around...

Plus he has overkill corners, rear bumper and tire carrier, and a heavy ass 37x13x18 tire hang in off the back and it doesn't sag in the rear at all.

I have those rancho rs9000xl and like them a lot, but it did take some playing with them to dial them in. Those bilsteins Nick has are tuned for the aev spring rate...

31 jeeps in... still have issues

Last edited by 2k2wranglerx; 05-10-2011 at 08:24 PM.
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post #17 of 18 Old 05-12-2011, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
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Just installed a lower teraflex track bar bracket to correct the geometry.

Fixed my problem, it handles night and day better. Still might keep messing with it though. Could always be better.
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post #18 of 18 Old 05-22-2011, 10:02 AM
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If you don't mind my jumping on board here..
Right now I'm running a 2dr Rubicon with RC's 3.25" lift, 315/70/17, Gobi roof rack and 48" Hi-Lift. I can't afford to throw on a swing-out tire carrier yet, so I'm thinking about running the spare on the roof rack for a while (I drive few highway miles). The RC kit included the rear track bar relocation bracket, but the front still appears a little taller.
Would you expect this to cause me issues with suspension as well?

2007 Rubicon 2dr, 6spd dubbed 'Longhorn Edition'
3.25" Rough Country suspension lift
315/70/17 Kumho RV MT's on AR Fuel 8's
Modified Gobi roof rack (4 Hella's front, 2 rear)
OR FAB swing-out tire carrier (with dual Jerry cans)
ORO rear license plate light & relocation bracket
Homemade steel stubby front bumper, stinger, 12k winchplate
Homemade rock rails, 'psuedo exocage' (tree sliders)
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