Best Anti-Flop Tie Rod Solution - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 23 Old 12-20-2019, 01:57 PM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 29
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews
Best Anti-Flop Tie Rod Solution

I have a 2016 JK with stock tie rod and drag link. 48k miles. All ball joints are still in good enough shape to not warrant replacement just yet. However, my tie can easily be moved up and down, feeling the "clunk" when it bangs against the internal ball joint assemblies. I can move this by hand, reproducing the clunk, as well as having strapped a camera under the vehicle to watch the tie rod slam up and down over bumps. Synergy offers the TRE dust caps to help eliminate this with their tie rod. Yeti/Steersmarts has some type of "Reverse Pin" ball joint to eliminate this. Teraflex has adjustable pre-load on their ball joints to address this. Any of the options is a $300 - $400+ investment (for just the tie rod). Any experts on "JK Tie Rod Flop" that could argue why one of the above mentioned solutions would be better than another?

In searching this forum, I did also see a photo from PIG showing a Synergy TRE that was slotted, preventing it from rotating front to back.

I've been searching for a solution for months, with no definitive results that are recent that can be confirmed by any of the above mentioned manufacturers. I've clocked my stock TRE's with some success, yet, over time, the clunkiness comes back. I tried mounting a Rough Country dual steering stabilizer to the stock tie rod, to see if I could affect the tie rod flop at all with the additional support of dual overhead stabilizers. I tried multiple angles of the mounts (both on the axle and the ends of the tie rod). This did not help at all. Actually made it worse. It simply added more mass to "flop" around when going over bumps. Needless to say, that came off with about 50 miles of trying it out. I'm back to a fully stock steering setup, including the stock stabilizer at its factory mounts.

I am prepared to upgrade both the tie rod and drag link with one of the above mentioned aftermarket solutions. And while I will appreciate the extra strength gained for offroad performance, I am more interested in a solid feeling front end when driving over the wash board-like streets of South Louisiana. When the flop is gone (from careful clocking), the suspension feels nice and solid (smooth). When the tie rod flops and clunks, it degrades the ride down to that of an old truck with 100k+ miles on the ball joints and suspension bushings.

Looking for those who have experience with tie rod clunk and with the products listed above. Who does addresses tie rod flop (which manufacturer)?
vwduud is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 Old 12-22-2019, 08:30 AM
Rock God
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Woodinville, WA
Posts: 928
Feedback: 0 reviews

A ball joint causing a rod to flop should have absolutely no noticeable change in vehicle performance, because no geometry is changing during the flop event. There's nothing inherently wrong with tie rod flop unless you have hydro assist (and even then, I think it's blown way out of proportions on the internet unless the installation geometry is just awful).

If it really is changing the vehicle's performance, you probably have worn ends.
christensent is offline  
post #3 of 23 Old 12-22-2019, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 29
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Perhaps I am using the term "tie rod flop" incorrectly.

The JK tie rod, with its curved tie rod ends, placing the "rod" itself more forward with respect to its mounting points through the ball joints in the tie rod ends, creates a "front heavy" situation. It places a lot of "mass" in front of the mounting points. As a result, simply going over bumps will cause this heavy, leveraged mass to jostle up and down. When it does this, it can eventually hit its limits (the limit of the ball joint in the TRE). When hits this limit, the outer ball joint housing "bangs" up against the inner ball, causing a "clunk", that you can feel through the steering wheel and at the pedals through your feet.

This is in contrast to what I have read when hydro-assisted steering setups cause the tie rod to "roll" when simply turning the steering wheel from left to right. I've seen videos of this and this is not what I am referring to.

I have a video that would easily demonstrate this, but cannot upload it with my lack of posts.
vwduud is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 23 Old 12-22-2019, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 29
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by christensent View Post
A ball joint causing a rod to flop should have absolutely no noticeable change in vehicle performance, because no geometry is changing during the flop event. There's nothing inherently wrong with tie rod flop unless you have hydro assist (and even then, I think it's blown way out of proportions on the internet unless the installation geometry is just awful).

If it really is changing the vehicle's performance, you probably have worn ends.
At 48k, it certainly could be worn parts (the ball joints in the tie rod ends). My options are to replace those TRE's with stock components or go with the above mentioned after-market options. I'm just trying to get some user experience from the after-market solutions. Do any of these address this problem? If so, for how long? If they don't, I'll save some money and just replace the TRE's with factory components.

And this isn't necessarily a performance issue. The vehicle tracks and drives like new still. No wandering, no bump steer, no death wobble, nothing. It is simply a ride quality issue. When going over smooth bumps (not wash board type bumps), the suspension and steering components feels solid. Its when you really jostle the front end that the tie rod gets a chance to "rattle and clunk".

Again, if I could post my video, it is easy to see what is going on.
vwduud is offline  
post #5 of 23 Old 12-22-2019, 06:47 PM
Rock God
 
Will Scarlet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hampton Roads...
Posts: 522
Feedback: 0 reviews

Either there's are problem or there's not a problem, it can't be both. And what @christensent stated is correct.

If you want to throw money at an issue you're not even sure is an issue is up to you. What you spend your money on is you're business. However I would suggest @planman 's write up for checking the front end:
https://www.jkowners.com/forum/write...s-wobbles.html

It comprehensive and complete. And I hope this helps...

2011 Sahara Tan Rubicon 6 Speed
TR HD17 Beadlocks, BFGoodrich A/T KO2 34x10.50R17, Teraflex HD Tire Carrier, Clayton 2.5" Overland Plus Lift, Fox 2.0 reservoir shocks, and more to come...
Will Scarlet is offline  
post #6 of 23 Old 12-23-2019, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 29
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Scarlet View Post
Either there's are problem or there's not a problem, it can't be both. And what @christensent stated is correct.

If you want to throw money at an issue you're not even sure is an issue is up to you. What you spend your money on is you're business. However I would suggest @planman 's write up for checking the front end:

It comprehensive and complete. And I hope this helps...
It is a very comprehensive read. One that I read before installing the lift on my JK. One thing not mentioned, that'll cause DW, is excessive toe-in. Found this out the hard way lifting a TJ and failing to adjust the toe before driving.

Agreed, there either is or isn't a problem. I can easily reproduce the problem, both on the road (with audio/video to demonstrate) as well as simply rotating the tie rod by hand, to its extents. And you're right: I don't just want to throw money at this, hoping it solves my problem. I don't know that any of the aftermarket solutions will solve this problem. Hence, the reason for this post. I am hoping that someone else has experienced this exact problem and addressed it in a way that lasted awhile; make it worth the money spent to fix it.

I bought 2 JK's this year; both 2016's, one a Sport with 55k miles (my wife's) and mine is a Willy's (bought at 36k miles). My wife's Sport, with more miles does not exhibit this problem. Mine has had it since I purchased it in June of this year, before and after installing the 2.5" spacer lift. I've been chasing it since then. Checking the obvious, like loose track bar and control arm bolts. I thought I may have found at least one issue when I noticed the inner bushing at the lower, rear track bar was shiny, indicating that it was rotating in its mount (not fully torqued). No major damage, but loose nonetheless. Needless to say, I properly tightened and torqued this at ride height, after completing my lift, however, it did not make any noticeable differences in removing any suspension related clunks.
vwduud is offline  
post #7 of 23 Old 12-23-2019, 08:00 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 29
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Scarlet View Post
Either there's are problem or there's not a problem, it can't be both. And what @christensent stated is correct.

If you want to throw money at an issue you're not even sure is an issue is up to you. What you spend your money on is you're business. However I would suggest @planman 's write up for checking the front end:

It comprehensive and complete. And I hope this helps...
Yes, good read. I read that before doing my 2.5" spacer lift. I properly loosened all suspension mounting bolts (control arms, track bars, etc.), re-torqueing them to spec after lift was done and vehicle back on the ground. Then again after 50 miles or so.

If I could post my video, you'd see and hear the problem (tie rod rocking back and forth violently over chatter bumps). And no, I don't wish to just throw money at this, hoping it will go away. Is why I have been chasing this for almost 6 months now.

I have 2 2016 JK's both bought this year (May/June). My wife's, bought at 55k did not nor does have this problem (now at 68k). Mine, bought at 36k has had this problem both before and after the lift.
vwduud is offline  
post #8 of 23 Old 12-25-2019, 01:45 PM
Rock God
 
Will Scarlet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hampton Roads...
Posts: 522
Feedback: 0 reviews

@vwduud : I understand it's a good read, but did you go through checking everything from the link. If you go through the list and find an issue, then replace the parts found to be bad. Otherwise there is no issue other then the annoyance you get from the noise.

Good luck.

2011 Sahara Tan Rubicon 6 Speed
TR HD17 Beadlocks, BFGoodrich A/T KO2 34x10.50R17, Teraflex HD Tire Carrier, Clayton 2.5" Overland Plus Lift, Fox 2.0 reservoir shocks, and more to come...
Will Scarlet is offline  
post #9 of 23 Old 12-26-2019, 05:55 AM
Super Moderator
 
j3ff3ry_j33p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Nashville
Posts: 6,053
Garage
Feedback: 1 reviews


@vwduud

link(s) to video - of manually moving the TR you speak of PLUS one of it occuring while you are driving it slow and you have mounted a camera so the tierod is visible during the mobility test, a tripod allows details to be discerned if that is how u capture it or ( best) if you have a friend, they can be your "cinematographer" ,following along as u produce this movement.

any less is an act of futility from an online forum perspective ; all these words & you're no further along than when you posted originally. Unless you feel lotsa verbiage is masking your noise or issue , there's no reason to continue until you produce visual aid.

trust me ; you aren't experiencing anything that has not been seen or corrected before. You are just being as noisy& irritating as the tierod is by not providing video of the issue so you can be helped.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
j3ff3ry_j33p is offline  
post #10 of 23 Old 12-27-2019, 08:47 PM
Granite Guru
 
RedRubiconLJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: DFW TX
Posts: 448
Feedback: 0 reviews

Try and message the video to someone else in here that can post it. Im not the one since Im not tech savvy.

I used the currie anti rock cups and they worked just fine. I had the roll you speak of with my synergy before this but I never noticed a clunk. I did feel/hear the clunk when I manually rotated my TR, but never while driving. I now have hydro and use the synergy low misalignment cups.

There was a post(s) about the currie cups causing the cotter pins to break off and the tr end starts to fall out as the nut loosens. I never had that issue. Not sure what size pin was being used but mine just barely get through the hole. They are big.

Last edited by RedRubiconLJ; 01-12-2020 at 02:39 PM.
RedRubiconLJ is offline  
post #11 of 23 Old 12-29-2019, 09:18 AM
Newbie
 
Fury22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 3
Feedback: 0 reviews

Fusion 4x4 tie rod...comes with anti flop "lock out washers" instead of traditional boots...works good last long time
Fury22 is offline  
post #12 of 23 Old 12-30-2019, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 29
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fury22 View Post
Fusion 4x4 tie rod...comes with anti flop "lock out washers" instead of traditional boots...works good last long time
Thank you Fury22. Did you have to clearance the dust shields for the disc brakes with the larger tie rod ends?
vwduud is offline  
post #13 of 23 Old 12-31-2019, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 29
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Here's a small video of the tie rod rattle:

4 seconds worth by James Brown, on Flickr
vwduud is offline  
post #14 of 23 Old 12-31-2019, 06:43 PM
Wheeler
 
MeanGreenJKU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Age: 36
Posts: 70
Feedback: 0 reviews

I had the same problem with my synergy tie rod and used the synergy caps. Solved the problem completely but Iím not sure if they work on your tie rod
MeanGreenJKU is offline  
post #15 of 23 Old 12-31-2019, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 29
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanGreenJKU View Post
I had the same problem with my synergy tie rod and used the synergy caps. Solved the problem completely but I’m not sure if they work on your tie rod
Yea, I don’t think there’s a solution out there for the stock tie rod, other than replacing it. But I’ve read where some were experiencing this problem under 20k miles.

Thanks for the feedback on the Synergy.

How many miles do you have on it? Still running the first set of synergy caps? Problem hadn’t crept back in?
vwduud is offline  
post #16 of 23 Old 01-01-2020, 12:41 AM
Granite Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northern California, Sierras
Posts: 135
Feedback: 0 reviews

Guud evening - probably no use but, have you checked out "The Cure" from Ruff Stuff Specialties (sp)? Loomis, Ca.
No knowledge of this product other than it seemed like what you're talking about to some degree?
Good luck and please follow up when you figure it out!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Groundhawg is offline  
post #17 of 23 Old 01-01-2020, 07:17 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 29
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundhawg View Post
Guud evening - probably no use but, have you checked out "The Cure" from Ruff Stuff Specialties (sp)? Loomis, Ca.
No knowledge of this product other than it seemed like what you're talking about to some degree?
Good luck and please follow up when you figure it out!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
Hi Groundhawg. I’ve seen those and have gone back to review them numerous times. While they fit the stock tie rod ends, they’re listed for models before the JK. Doesn’t mean they couldn’t work though.

I’ll give them a call and ask.

Thank you for the post. Jim
vwduud is offline  
post #18 of 23 Old 01-06-2020, 05:15 AM
Newbie
 
Fury22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 3
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwduud View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fury22 View Post
Fusion 4x4 tie rod...comes with anti flop "lock out washers" instead of traditional boots...works good last long time
Thank you Fury22. Did you have to clearance the dust shields for the disc brakes with the larger tie rod ends?
No i did not.
Fury22 is offline  
post #19 of 23 Old 01-06-2020, 06:24 AM
Super Moderator
 
j3ff3ry_j33p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Nashville
Posts: 6,053
Garage
Feedback: 1 reviews



OP is making this far too difficult.

If OPs determined to keep an obviously worn stock DL or TR with non greasable TREs, the only viable solution ( this is in some thread I have on my profile I'm sure) ; get some additional ( yes; on top of) the existing dustcaps . I have used Currie Enterprises as-well-as Energy or Prothane. You simply find one you can get to slip over the current dust cap . The former durometer cap will bring back the firmness to the play .

I still have this on my knuckle side ,Synergy draglink TRE but it would work for the factory, I'm sure.

the caps from Synergy Mfg previously mentioned are for hydraulic assisted setups.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
j3ff3ry_j33p is offline  
post #20 of 23 Old 01-06-2020, 07:04 AM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 29
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post


OP is making this far too difficult.

If OPs determined to keep an obviously worn stock DL or TR with non greasable TREs...
I guess you skimmed right past this part of my opening thread:

"I am prepared to upgrade both the tie rod and drag link with one of the above mentioned aftermarket solutions."
vwduud is offline  
post #21 of 23 Old 01-06-2020, 09:06 PM
Super Moderator
 
j3ff3ry_j33p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Nashville
Posts: 6,053
Garage
Feedback: 1 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwduud View Post
I guess you skimmed right past this part of my opening thread:

"I am prepared to upgrade both the tie rod and drag link with one of the above mentioned aftermarket solutions."

nah, I saw that but thought you were not averse to it but it sounded to me like if you could make the current OEM still work / cease to *thwackthud* , you'd prefer that route.

my bad.

I use that aftermarket dustcap solution on my older synergy DL even w/ the TREs clocked to prevent slop, fwiw. Just throwing you options.

For my use case , I'd probably go w/ Synergy Mfg & thier upgraded , black cap TRE boots that're on both the JK tierod and thier updated JK draglink w/ the fancy directional TRE. All thst'd be more than suitable from your usage scenario ,I'd think.

I actually tweaked my Synergy TR after 3-4 years of trail only use & they replaced it for me quickly after I confirmed it. Can't beat that.






To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
j3ff3ry_j33p is offline  
post #22 of 23 Old 01-25-2020, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
Wheeler
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 29
Garage
Feedback: 0 reviews

I ended up installing the Steersmarts Yeti XD drag link and tie rod. My “clunk” up front is gone.

If you’re not familiar with these, both the drag link and tie rod have what they call “reverse pin” rod ends on the passenger side ends. Basically, this is just a slotted ball joint, where the rotation is limited, not allowing the tie rod nor the drag link to rotate front to back, eliminating the flop. The driver’s side ball joints are standard to accommodate the mis-alignment encountered with steering and suspension movement.

Hopefully they’ll wear well and not get sloppy anytime soon.
vwduud is offline  
post #23 of 23 Old 01-30-2020, 09:10 AM
Wheeler
 
MeanGreenJKU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Age: 36
Posts: 70
Feedback: 0 reviews

Quote:
Originally Posted by vwduud View Post
Yea, I donít think thereís a solution out there for the stock tie rod, other than replacing it. But Iíve read where some were experiencing this problem under 20k miles.

Thanks for the feedback on the Synergy.

How many miles do you have on it? Still running the first set of synergy caps? Problem hadnít crept back in?
I have 30,000 mi on it. Yes Iím on the first set with no problems it has been great.
MeanGreenJKU is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome