Hydro assist? - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 09-27-2019, 08:12 AM Thread Starter
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Hydro assist?

Anyone have any issues running a stock box tapped n ported for hydro running 40s plus?


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post #2 of 14 Old 09-27-2019, 09:30 AM
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I found a post by a guy who did it on his stock box with pics to show where. But as it is on a competing site I don't want to put a link to it in case it violates forum rules. On the other hand I am told that the stock pump needs to be modified for more pressure, plus you will need more volume as well as a cooler. So I am looking at a kit like this one. https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/h...der-assist-kit
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post #3 of 14 Old 09-27-2019, 11:34 AM
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I had my stock box sent to Howe to be set up for hydro assist and it worked without issue for years. I did have their pump and cooler as well.

It was an 08 Delphi box. I think the newer "delphi" boxes are Chinese knock offs and may not be as good but not 100% on that.


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post #4 of 14 Old 09-27-2019, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandCruiser96 View Post
But as it is on a competing site I don't want to put a link to it in case it violates forum rules.
This forum is not under Nazi control like WAL. Sharing info is good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
think the newer "delphi" boxes are Chinese knock offs and may not be as good but not 100% on that.
I run a "pre-seasoned" ported chinese box w/ 37's (I know, not 40). No calamity yet.

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post #5 of 14 Old 09-27-2019, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punchlikeaflea View Post
Anyone have any issues running a stock box tapped n ported for hydro running 40s plus?


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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
I had my stock box sent to Howe to be set up for hydro assist and it worked without issue for years. I did have their pump and cooler as well.

It was an 08 Delphi box. I think the newer "delphi" boxes are Chinese knock offs and may not be as good but not 100% on that.
Whatever you decide, when you eventually do get to the point that you do go hydro assist that all the components are a designed set .
I'm with ALASHA in that I did Howe Racing , some of the others are set up very well, but I think Howe goes a few extra steps .
The stops are set internally as well as the ram length is determined by the axel sweep instead of stacking and welding washers to the axal stops.
There are plenty of other benefits to the Howe lineup but I've touched on a few.
During the time that I did mine I had a couple of conversations with Alan (ALASHA) and the folks at Howe and decided that of all the systems available that this one fit the requirements a little more completely than the rest .

There is a ton of information that is searchable on JKO that has some real interesting material to help you to decide .

Good Luck
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post #6 of 14 Old 09-27-2019, 02:20 PM
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I've been running a WTO kit for about a year now with 41.5's. I got the 1.75" ram due to the larger tires and it's a trail only rig, but I have zero issues driving it on the road.

Thoughts:
- It was easy to send them my delphi box to get it ported and tapped, and sent back with all items necessary to install the kit.
- You send them your axle sweep and they limit the ram internally.
- It sometimes gets hot in big rocks and pukes fluid with the stock res (mostly my fault for not getting a bigger res, heat sink cooler helped some).
- It's a tad sluggish at idle due to the stock pump lacking volume. (they sell an overdrive/underdrive (whichever it is) pulley to combat this but note that that's a bandaid fix rather than replacing the pump with a howe that can perform as designed.)

Overall I'm happy with it for what the jeep's intended purpose is and the low cost of the kit.

The Howe complete systems mentioned above might be a better option for full performance. I'd imagine they are significantly more expensive than what I paid though.

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post #7 of 14 Old 09-27-2019, 02:30 PM Thread Starter
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I appreciate all the advise just donít want to fork out 2.5k for the psc big bore assist kit.
Iíve looked into the WTO offroad stuff. And was leaning that way. But havenít came across the Howe. Iíll have to look into it. I plan on running 43s and wonder if itís even worth it. Iím in Alaska so we really donít have rocks just a lot of hills and mud/swamps.


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post #8 of 14 Old 09-27-2019, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandCruiser96 View Post
I found a post by a guy who did it on his stock box with pics to show where. But as it is on a competing site . . .
Here are my photos (on JKO ) and a bit of info.:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExWrench View Post
. . . <snip> . . .

Here are a few photos of my steering box apart so you can see where the magic gnomes live.
Box coming apart. Reference marks are always handy, and buy a silver Sharpie if you donít have one.


The two small holes are the passages for hydraulic pressure to reach either side of the piston in the steering box.
The two areas you drill and tap are each fed by one of these passages. The ď+Ē is fed by the lower of these 2 holes.


The ď+Ē in this picture is at the end of the passageway fed by the upper hole in the previous photo.
The horizontal chamber below the "+" is where the piston on the end of the rack rides.


In the block on the left, there is a valve that directs hydraulic pressure to one of the two passages depending on which way you are turning the input shaft.
The input shaft is also the worm gear that moves the rack. Hydraulic pressure on the piston assists the worm gear to move the rack.


Here are the two ports that feed passages that reach the two sides of the piston.



The teeth on the rack (in linear motion) drive the teeth on the Pitman shaft (in rotary motion), and the splines on the Pitman shaft turn the Pitman arm.
I got lucky: my Pitman arm was not sloppy, my seals were in good shape, and I didnít fook up anything while I modified and reassembled the box.


You guys and gals that did your hydro tapping without disassembly have more faith than I do in the ability to remove all the debris.
I deburred and cleaned inside after drilling and tapping, and went full clean-room paranoid (within reason) at reassembly.
The 2 capped AN nipples are where the hoses take off to feed my PSC ram.
The brass pipe plug is where I wanted to run one of the hoses (but I decided to not modify the coolant bottle, so I went "traditional").
EDIT: the above read "washer fluid bottle", which was incorrect (It was late. Shit was getting fuzzy).


OBA tank had to go because it lived where I needed to route some hydraulic hoses - bummer.


Initial hydraulic hose routing Ė this helped me get over the loss of the air tank pretty damned quick.
If my hose routing looks odd to you, it's because the hose from the pump is curving forward to the hydraulic winch.
Another hose runs from the winch and feeds the steering box.
Track bar adjuster sleeve only fits with the pinch bolts on top because of the raised track bar / hydro ram mount bracket.

01/16/15 EDIT: I looked up these links for a hydro. thread going on, so I might as well copy/paste here -
Links to Summit detail pages (easiest for me to find/paste quickly) of the hose and the 45, 90, and straight fittings:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FCG0615
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FBM1386
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FBM1389
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FBM1302
Those pages have the Aeroquip part numbers also.

Those^ are the part numbers of the bulk hose and fittings I used to make my high-pressure hoses.


Hoses all buttoned up and hopefully needing nothing for quite a while.
If you are going to spiral-wrap your hoses, it takes a lot less time and effort before installing the hoses.
I did it both ways, and it sucks a lot less when the hoses are not installed yet.

Punchlikeaflea - I hope that^ helps a bit.

There's a good hydro assist thread somewhere on JKO (Modified Tech? ) - good thread unless Photosuckit wrecked it. Don't have time to search now and give a link.
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post #9 of 14 Old 09-27-2019, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExWrench View Post

There's a good hydro assist thread somewhere on JKO (Modified Tech? ) - good thread unless Photosuckit wrecked it. Don't have time to search now and give a link.

@Punchlikeaflea I found 'em:

Goodysgotacuda's thread may be severely Photophucketed, but it has good info.:
DIY - JK Ram Assist - Hydro-assist - PSC ~$300

usmcdoc14's thread is intact and his video links are still good
Hydro assist reference thread
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post #10 of 14 Old 09-27-2019, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
. . .

I think the newer "delphi" boxes are Chinese knock offs and may not be as good but not 100% on that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snout View Post
I run a "pre-seasoned" ported chinese box w/ 37's (I know, not 40). No calamity yet.
IMO, adding hydro assist makes the box quality less of a concern.

If the box is in good condition when a ram is added . . .
  • and you don't fawk it up tapping it
  • and you don't leave any debris in it
  • and you're running a proper ram setup
  • and you change your fluid occasionally
  • and you have a cooler
  • and you have a filter

. . . the box will last practically for-fookin'-ever because the ram takes most of its workload (& shock loads).
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post #11 of 14 Old 09-27-2019, 10:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExWrench View Post
IMO, adding hydro assist makes the box quality less of a concern.



If the box is in good condition when a ram is added . . .
  • and you don't fawk it up tapping it
  • and you don't leave any debris in it
  • and you're running a proper ram setup
  • and you change your fluid occasionally
  • and you have a cooler
  • and you have a filter




. . . the box will last practically for-fookin'-ever because the ram takes most of its workload (& shock loads).


Perfect thatís what I wanted to know that most of the force will be absorbed by the ram and not on the sector shaft. Iíve already replaced a few other steering boxes on the trails on buddies jeeps


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post #12 of 14 Old 09-28-2019, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punchlikeaflea View Post
Perfect thatís what I wanted to know that most of the force will be absorbed by the ram and not on the sector shaft. Iíve already replaced a few other steering boxes on the trails on buddies jeeps


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you dont mean replacing JK or JKU steering gearboxes in the field, right? That is one of the shittiest, most awful Jeep jobs I have ever done in a garage, let alone on trailside. If you mean the JK steering gearbox, you're a darn good friend, cuz those suck to replace. I have done mine 3 times. IN garage.


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post #13 of 14 Old 09-29-2019, 06:02 PM
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I ran RNR for a year, ported my own box .I got tired of the parking lot lag a f we play in the dunes a lot . So I upgraded to the PSC pump and resovor and cant complane . Been all over Sand hallow and so far so good , 80k on stock box .

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post #14 of 14 Old 09-29-2019, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post
you dont mean replacing JK or JKU steering gearboxes in the field, right? That is one of the shittiest, most awful Jeep jobs I have ever done in a garage, let alone on trailside. If you mean the JK steering gearbox, you're a darn good friend, cuz those suck to replace. I have done mine 3 times. IN garage.


Yes yes I do mean a jk/jku on the trail. In a swamp in the rain. And at the top of a steep hill. Gotta do Whacha gotta do when youíre in the middle of nowhere on top of a mountain


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