Need technical support - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 04-24-2019, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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Need technical support

First of all I want to apologize for the long winded post, but unfortunately its a pretty complex problem.

I’m working on a buddies 2013 Jeep Wrangler 3.6L, we’re finishing up a complete back half / truggy project and have run into an electrical problem. In the process of the project I had to remove a bunch of modules as well as cut out some excess harnesses. Any wires that were cut, were also individually heat sealed to prevent shorting the system.

These harnesses were shortened and heat sealed:
Tail light harness
Rear door/wiper/washer etc.
TPMS module
Fuel return
EVAP canister
All speakers

I’ve had the battery disconnected for “Most” of the project until I had to purge the hydraulic ram. Obviously I had the Jeep running to purge the system and didn’t have any starting or running issues. The first problem was when I was running the steering wheel back and forth, I oversteered the clock spring and broke it. I didn’t have any issues at this time. When I finished purging the system I moved onto fabrication and welding the front winch mount, this was where I forgot to disconnect the battery. Once the winch mount was done, I moved onto bleeding the brakes, we did this without starting the Jeep.

OK so here’s where we stand. When we initially turn the key to the “On” position nothing happens, the instrument cluster stays off/blank. Once we either turn on the headlights or step on the brake pedal everything comes on. Meaning the instrument cluster/fuel pump turn on. At this point we have multiple warning indicators as well as park reverse neutral and drive indicators are illuminated and we have a “hot oil” message. And nothing happens when turning the key to “Start”



The first thing I did was verify that I have good grounds on all the circuits that I moved or messed with. Then I checked along those wires for any nicks or cuts. I then checked to make sure that all the modules I messed with were plugged in securely. Then I removed the steering wheel and disconnected all the clock spring connectors. At this point I got help from another buddy.

We’ve attempted to diagnose this with a Chrysler POD and Snap-on Solus Plus:
There were tons of “no connection” codes, unfortunately I don’t have them recorded. We’ve got multiple modules with no communication. As well as some funky things going on. The TIPM is not sensing the key in the ignition. When the key is in the “Off” position, the TIPM is reading it as in the on/start position. When the key is in the “On” or “Start” position the TIPM reads it as being in the off position. When the key is initially turned to the start position, nothing happens. The TIPM does not recognize any change of state either.

We have power and ground at all modules. We checked for continuity to ground on the CAN+ and CAN- circuits. We didn’t find anything grounded out or crossed but we did find a weird bouncing of 16ohm to overload. We determined that it was from the anti-lock brake module, once we unplugged it, the bouncing went away and we had no path to ground. But still no change, no start.

The following items are unplugged/disconnected.
Radio
Compass
Seat belts
Seats
Doors
All air bags
Clock spring (this broke while the engine was running)
Rear wheel speed sensors (currently unplugged)
Tail light harness
Rear door/wiper
TPMS module
Fuel return
EVAP canister
All speakers

So at this point I’m at a loss, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Project can be seen 0n Instagram @dmaxpwr
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post #2 of 8 Old 04-24-2019, 08:06 PM
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Without a wiring diagram it's hard to say. You need to find the common wire that is shared by all the modules. But if I had to guess I'd say the tipm is shorted out. You'll remember to disconnect the battery from now on when welding.

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post #3 of 8 Old 04-25-2019, 04:31 AM
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Due to my volume of responsibilities today & thru the next few work weeks, I've not time to fully digest your breakdown.

That being said , I'd speak w/ @ronjinx for possibly acquiring wiring schematics .

I could not get past your first statement about turning the key to "ON" and nothing occuring till you mash brakes or flip headlight switch; that sounds like your ignition module or clockspring is either not grounded or is damaged. Likely the first.

Only other info I can pass on is these JKs are the particularly most-sensitive in a whole history of electrically bitchy Jeeps. The wiring is complex because it's primarily a flybywire Wrangler. This means things we don't usually associate with our harnesses can come into effect when we do our 'normal' work. Heck, the taillights on the JKs are on individual circuits , Left and Right. That's messed up.

I digress:

You say you properly re-heatshrunk and fixed some of the harness you had to shorten. It could be something as exotic and weird as the actual length being shortened now not providing ample resistance to something causing an over abundance of current now. Yep, they are that picky. Didn't you mention in overload ?
I just saw the clockspring being disconnected; someone confirm this but I'm not sure you're gonna get much action from the ignition without that on ...


You can't barely look at the JKs electrical system without it freaking out . There are led taillight upgraded for JKs that ate a metal fireproof box to contain the factory halogens and hide then so the customer need not touch the wiring and call for support. That should speak to how horrid the jk electronics are.

Look at a member on here named @KOWBOY ; his build eventually yanked the harness out after some heavy mods & might help you in some way.






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Last edited by j3ff3ry_j33p; 04-25-2019 at 04:33 AM.
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post #4 of 8 Old 04-28-2019, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
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I finally got schematics and have been picking away at checking for potential problems but haven't been able to find anything. I guess at this point my next step will be to get a clock spring and see if that makes a difference. Thanks for your help!
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post #5 of 8 Old 05-05-2019, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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I finally got it running, I replaced the clockspring but that didn't make a difference. So I decided to try and trace all the CAN circuits. I found that I had no continuity between the TIPM C1-15 and anything in the cab. Long story short, I found the Can-C- and Can-C + twisted pair that goes from the TIPM to the cab actually goes from the TIPM to a sonic weld (spice S214, which we removed) above the rear axle then almost back to the TIPM and does a U-turn and then goes into the cab. I also found (4) wires behind the dash that were damaged. Once I spliced the CAN wires and repaired the the damaged wires the Jeep ran. Now I've probably got a days worth of work to put it all back together.

Thank you for your input and suggestions.
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post #6 of 8 Old 05-06-2019, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaxpwr View Post
I finally got it running, I replaced the clockspring but that didn't make a difference. So I decided to try and trace all the CAN circuits. I found that I had no continuity between the TIPM C1-15 and anything in the cab. Long story short, I found the Can-C- and Can-C + twisted pair that goes from the TIPM to the cab actually goes from the TIPM to a sonic weld (spice S214, which we removed) above the rear axle then almost back to the TIPM and does a U-turn and then goes into the cab. I also found (4) wires behind the dash that were damaged. Once I spliced the CAN wires and repaired the the damaged wires the Jeep ran. Now I've probably got a days worth of work to put it all back together.

Thank you for your input and suggestions.



so, since I have no clue what it means but I must have some on
my Jeep JK , care to fill us in on what a sonic weld is ?
'Spice S214' is a wire color & jumper or ?
This is where photos are invaluable...you'd be doing a great service for the community of you were able to snag a pict or 2 from this !

Glad you identified the culprit,either way .




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post #7 of 8 Old 05-06-2019, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post

so, since I have no clue what it means but I must have some on
my Jeep JK , care to fill us in on what a sonic weld is ?
'Spice S214' is a wire color & jumper or ?
This is where photos are invaluable...you'd be doing a great service for the community of you were able to snag a pict or 2 from this !

Glad you identified the culprit,either way .


What he said!

Also, in for a thread on the build. The more the merrier for cutting Jk's in half!

Glad you got it solved though. I deleted all of my rear harness except for the driver side tail lights and rear ABS sensors. Even accidentally cut through a few wires in the main harness in the dash. Luckily I didn't experience any gremlins when it came time to start it. The JK TIPM's are known to be finicky little bitches though, even without doing any invasive projects.

Chase Weston
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post #8 of 8 Old 05-06-2019, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post

so, since I have no clue what it means but I must have some on
my Jeep JK , care to fill us in on what a sonic weld is ?
'Spice S214' is a wire color & jumper or ?
This is where photos are invaluable...you'd be doing a great service for the community of you were able to snag a pict or 2 from this !

Glad you identified the culprit,either way .


I don’t mean to speak for the OP, but a sonic weld is just a type of weld that is used for splicing wires (well, that is one use) instead of solder or a mechanical connection. Strong and reliable.

By “spice S214” I’m fairly sure he meant “Splice” S214. Probably the name of a splice, as labeled on a wiring diagram. Probably doesn’t do much good without the diagram, but I’ll let the OP fill in the details on that.
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Last edited by BigTB; 05-06-2019 at 03:32 PM.
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