Fox internal bypass coil overs??? - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 01-29-2019, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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Fox internal bypass coil overs???

I have a 2 door with an 8 inch rear stretch I just completed and am still dialing in. I went with fox 2.0 with DSC adjusters and am happy so far, but just git it together and playing with the settings.

I want to do coil overs in the front as well but wanted some feed back on the 2.5 internal bypass coilovers? Are they that much better that the standard coilover? I understand what a bypass is and how they work but was curious and concerned at the lack of adjustment other than revolving the shock.

Any feed back would be great, thanks advance.
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post #2 of 26 Old 01-30-2019, 07:05 AM
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I was thinking about this the other week.

Bypass are set up for changes in fluid flow at various stages of shock travel so that means the shock has to have a predefined ride height to account for that right?

If the above statement is true, wondering what these were designed to sit at?


(If I am way off, I apologize. Coilovers and bypass stuff has not been something I have researched in exhausting detail yet)


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post #3 of 26 Old 01-30-2019, 07:15 AM
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The internal bypass is basically just a bump stop zone. They are not comparable to a regular bypass shock. King have them too. You can do compression adjusters and the internal bypass for some extra adjustment but they run almost as much as buying separates which give you better adjustment.
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post #4 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 07:12 AM
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Id really like to keep this discussion going. Maybe @TRD could make a come back and add some perspective.

I watched a couple of videos on Youtube and I could see @Dirt man's point of view for the Kings but the Fox have a completely different design that to me looks like it would act much more like a traditional bypass.

As to the point on cost, did a quick fly by on filthy motorsports website and adding a finned reservoir and IBP option to 2.5" coilover is ~$500. Bypass start at $660 but add another $80 to go to 3 bypass and another $225 for a finned reservoir to try to compare apples to apples and then multiple all that by 4 corners and the additional costs add up...


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post #5 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 07:42 AM
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Do you have a link to that video? The fox site does not show anything. I know they have a UTV shock that has a rebound adjuster on the shaft with a compression clicker but they run around $1700 each.

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post #6 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
Do you have a link to that video? The fox site does not show anything. I know they have a UTV shock that has a rebound adjuster on the shaft with a compression clicker but they run around $1700 each.
I watched these 2 about the Fox:


The second one says its UTV but with the info from the first, it looks like the design is the same between the 2.


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post #7 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 08:06 AM
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OK, I have seen those before. It cool the way they do the zones but there is no tenability without taking the shock apart and drilling holes in that inner sleeve. You would for sure want someone custom build these to your ride so the zones are in the correct place. I would say they are better in design then the kings as they give you both a bump zone as well as extra resistance to full rebound and may eliminate eat need for limit straps.

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Last edited by thedirtman; 02-01-2019 at 08:16 AM.
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post #8 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 08:28 AM
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https://www.summitracing.com/nv/part...-010/overview/ This one has compression adjustments and fixed internal bypass. I don't think this price includes coils and hardware.
You can get a set of King 2.5" coil overs and 2.5" triple bypass shocks for $1435 and get something you can adjust without taking them apart.

The fox shocks are great for the racer that is limited to 1 shock per corner, which is why they were designed.

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Last edited by thedirtman; 02-01-2019 at 08:42 AM.
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post #9 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
OK, I have seen those before. It cool the way they do the zones but there is no tenability without taking the shock apart and drilling holes in that inner sleeve. You would for sure want someone custom build these to your ride so the zones are in the correct place. I would say they are better in design then the kings as they give you both a bump zone as well as extra resistance to full rebound and may eliminate eat need for limit straps.
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Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
https://www.summitracing.com/nv/part...-010/overview/ This one has compression adjustments and fixed internal bypass. I don't think this price includes coils and hardware.
You can get a set of King 2.5" coil overs and 2.5" triple bypass shocks for $1435 and get something you can adjust without taking them apart.

The fox shocks are great for the racer that is limited to 1 shock per corner, which is why they were designed.
Agreed. Getting them set up for what you need will be a chore to say the least. I dont know if this is a completely fair comparison as the one you linked is a 3.0 coilover and going to 3.0 raises the prices considerably but I do understand the comparison you are trying to make.

The one thing I didnt understand is how are the holes linked to one another. I didnt see some sort of "tunnel" from pairing holes.

Also how much does a bypass weigh out of curiousity? (Yes I know its technically unsprung weight)


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post #10 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 08:52 AM
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Because of the way the fox are designed they are actually a 2.5" shock with and outer sleeve that acts as the bypass tubes. Thats why I compared the 2.5 kings to the 3" fox. Same size pistons roughly the same amount of oil. Just trying to compare apple to apples.

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post #11 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 08:56 AM
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You could also just run a 2.5" king dual rate internal bypass with compression adjusters and limit straps for way cheaper. You just valve it for the performance you want. about $1000 a corner.

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post #12 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
Because of the way the fox are designed they are actually a 2.5" shock with and outer sleeve that acts as the bypass tubes. Thats why I compared the 2.5 kings to the 3" fox. Same size pistons roughly the same amount of oil. Just trying to compare apple to apples.
Yeah but doesnt the outer sleeve need to be partitioned so that matching holes dont over lap? For example in a dual bypass setup there would be 2 pairs of holes in the inner sleeve for a total of 4. Without any sort of partition, the fluid bypassing through one hole may go to the non pairing hole which would "confuse" things no?


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post #13 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 09:08 AM
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the inner needs to be sealed at the top and bottom of the outer sleeve. The holes act the same as a bigger hole in the piston in the center section of the shock offering a softer ride in that zone. Once the piston moves past the hole the oil is restricted and the piston valving goes to work making the shock harder to compress or fully rebound. If there was a partition between the holes then the the oil would not be able to bypass the piston.

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post #14 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 09:17 AM
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I dont think I am explaining it correctly. Let me use the below pic as an example.

Starting at the bottom of the bypass there is a tube that runs to roughly the middle of the shock. There is a second bypass that starts slightly higher and ends almost at the top. Imagine internalizing the holes for those 2 tubes. If you dont separate the holes for those 2 pairs, then once the fluid enters the bottom hole, instead of going to the middle of the shock it will want to exit the entrance of the second bypass a inch or so higher. There has to be a mechanism by which 2 holes are paired with each other and only each other.

Does that make sense?



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post #15 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 09:38 AM
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Each of those tubes is a separate zone. You see they are attached at two points. When the piston is between those two points is where your tuning of the bypass is. The tube has an adjustable valve inside that regulated the flow of the oil moving thru the tube. In the photo with the three tubes gives you three adjustable zones. When the piston is not between the two points nothing happens as far as a bypass.

The fox shock internal bypass shock we are talking about has 3 zones but are fixed. The center bypass zone is between the holes in the inner sleeve and allows fluid to bypass the piston when the piston is between the upper and lower holes. This works both ways up and down allowing fluid to move around the piston giving a softer ride with faster rebound. When the piston moves past either the upper holes or the lower holes the bypass is basically shut off and the valving in the piston takes over slowing the piston travel down to act as a bump stop on the upper side and protection from fully extending the shock on the lower end.

The fox design basically uses and inner and outer sleeve that acts as the tube.

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Last edited by thedirtman; 02-01-2019 at 09:40 AM.
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post #16 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 09:46 AM
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I was thinking of fluid dynamics all wrong. Thank you for the clarification


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post #17 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 09:49 AM
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With the ends of both tubes sealed there is no bypass going on when the piston is above the upper holes or below the lower holes.

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post #18 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 09:51 AM
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It's much easier to explain suspensions dynamics and shock operation with visuals vs trying to use words. I know I struggle with words sometimes. When I am consulting people about suspensions and can draw pictures it is much easier.

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post #19 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 09:54 AM
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Ok next question. In an external set up each tube has a one way check valve right for rebound and compression? If yes then how does that happen in the FOX IBP?


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post #20 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
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Ok next question. In an external set up each tube has a one way check valve right for rebound and compression? If yes then how does that happen in the FOX IBP?
The TRD vid you posted showed the check valves for the IBP shocks. They were right on the inner tube.

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post #21 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 10:22 AM
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There is no check valve in the fox internal bypass coil over. Neither does king. The fox bypass system works both on the compression side and the rebound side as it is always open. A 3 tube bypass will allow separate rebound and compression adjustments. You get better running ability from separates. Like I said the internal bypass coil over were designed to get around the rules of a single shock class in racing. If it was not for these type of classes there would be no need for these type of shocks. IF you are not racing in one of these classes I am not sure why you would even consider these type of shocks as they are really expensive and you have to compromise with lack of easy adjustment.

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post #22 of 26 Old 02-01-2019, 10:45 AM
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I don't believe that's correct.

Here's the part where Ryan shows the check valves. It starts at 1:40.




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post #23 of 26 Old 02-02-2019, 08:18 AM
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I don't believe that's correct.

Here's the part where Ryan shows the check valves. It starts at 1:40.



https://youtu.be/f_u8QvvsuGk?t=100
Ryan uses the term check valve but in the fox video those are shimmed ports. They would close on the rebound and act as a check valve but they are there to provide tuning thru the travel. It looks to have free flow bypassing the center zone all the time but when the piston travel past one of the shimmed ports the compression would change.

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post #24 of 26 Old 02-02-2019, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
Ryan uses the term check valve but in the fox video those are shimmed ports. They would close on the rebound and act as a check valve but they are there to provide tuning thru the travel. It looks to have free flow bypassing the center zone all the time but when the piston travel past one of the shimmed ports the compression would change.
Ok, I understand now. It also makes sense when you said they were a solution for a one shock per corner rule. If you're not locked into that rule set, loosing all the adjustability of a external bypass makes no sense.

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post #25 of 26 Old 02-04-2019, 06:54 AM
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How often do you play with your bypasses?

I would assume that in a non racing application once you have them dialed in, something like a DSC adjuster would be more than enough tunability. Yes I understand the operative phrase here is once you have them dialed in.


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