Drag link flip options - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 12-27-2018, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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Drag link flip options

After discussing the HD steering from Metalcloak, they advised the do not recommend running it flipped with their 3.5" kit.

However, everything I have been able to find states above 3" seems to benefit from the drag link flip. It does seem like there is a concern for limiting the up travel by flipping the drag link, but the handling improves. Can anyone offer some opinions to this? I feel like Id want to flip it as I spend more time on road rather than off.

Also, Is the limit in up travel just with the metalcloak kit or does the steer smarts do it as well? Is the steer smarts much better for the average driver/offroader? The Metalcloak is about $100 cheaper and thats with the rock sport stabilizer.

2015 JKU Rubicon, 4.5" Synergy stage 4, JRi Shocks, FOX ATS Stabilizer, 4.88 gears, 37x12.50 Trail grapplers, 17" Raceline Beadlocks.(regretfully sold)

2012 JK 2 Door, Sport, 3.73's, offensively stock, mouse in Hardtop
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post #2 of 14 Old 12-27-2018, 07:12 PM
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I installed a 3.5" frankenlift with 35s back in 2014 (RK springs, DL, Synergy TBs with the high steer setup including raised track bars, both up ~3". Also ran the AEV CA geometry correction brackets with stock CAs. The setup felt excellent on and off road - planted, handled great , tracked straight, no caster issues. Aside from the difference in feel with the bigger tires, it handled just like stock and maybe better.

With the high steer, my DL was the limiting part for passenger up-travel. I had to run 3 hockey pucks (literally went to the local ice rink to buy 6 lol) and the Energy Suspension polyurethane jounce bumpers. With the passenger side stuffed / driver at full droop, and steering hard to passenger, the DL had about 1/4" clearance to the frame. So that was about 4.5" above the stock bumps. Wheeled it that way for 4 years with no trouble, but stock arms/bushings were probably also limiting flex.

I'm switching to the Synergy DL. It may allow a bit more clearance by having the bend at the knuckle pointed as low as possible.

Another possible option - notch the frame just above DL. Looks like ~1" could be had going that route.
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post #3 of 14 Old 12-27-2018, 07:49 PM
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I have a MC 3.5” game changer kit and just did a high steer on it. I do know I got 4.25” of loft out of the 3.5” springs up front. I have the Rancho knuckles and Fusion 4x4 draglink and tie rod. I was running 3” of bump before the flip and still only needed the 3” after. I clearances everything as I was putting it all together as well to make sure I wouldn’t need more bump stops or have to notch the frame.

The handling after was night and day. The front is solid and eliminated the little bump steer I did have. You don’t “need it” but it did make a difference.

As for the difference kits out there other than mine, I only have experience installing the steer smarts. I was definitely impressed with there bolt on no drill flip kit.

Here is a link to my build and you can see everything I have done lately.
https://www.jkowners.com/forum/modif.../topics/292801

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post #4 of 14 Old 12-27-2018, 07:53 PM
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It really has nothing to do with amount of lift and everything to do with amount of bump-stop extension. Most people say 3" of lift is required, assuming that this goes along with 3" bump-stop extension. People generally say this because everyone knows how much lift a kit claims to have but knowing how much bump-stop extension you have is an ever-so-slightly more advanced topic that might scare the average JK owner.

It's actually a feature of a 3.5" lift to not "support" a drag link flip. It means it has more up-travel than the competition. For Metalcloak, this could easily be achieved with the 6-pak shocks that allow crazy amounts of travel (most kits are bump-stop limited by shock-length so you put in enough extension to not bottom out the shocks).

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockystock View Post
Another possible option - notch the frame just above DL. Looks like ~1" could be had going that route.
Yes, if you have the ability to do cuts and weld stuff in, it's not very hard to do this. Indeed you can gain about 1" allowing for around a 2" bump-stop extension. Note you have to notch for not only the drag link but also the track bar.

Here's what I did for a notch (notice the drag-link section is painted - that's because I had to do the job twice since I forgot about the track bar clearance. That gets raised 3" too!).

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post #5 of 14 Old 12-27-2018, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christensent View Post
It really has nothing to do with amount of lift and everything to do with amount of bump-stop extension. Most people say 3" of lift is required, assuming that this goes along with 3" bump-stop extension. People generally say this because everyone knows how much lift a kit claims to have but knowing how much bump-stop extension you have is an ever-so-slightly more advanced topic that might scare the average JK owner.

It's actually a feature of a 3.5" lift to not "support" a drag link flip. It means it has more up-travel than the competition. For Metalcloak, this could easily be achieved with the 6-pak shocks that allow crazy amounts of travel (most kits are bump-stop limited by shock-length so you put in enough extension to not bottom out the shocks).

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockystock View Post
Another possible option - notch the frame just above DL. Looks like ~1" could be had going that route.
Yes, if you have the ability to do cuts and weld stuff in, it's not very hard to do this. Indeed you can gain about 1" allowing for around a 2" bump-stop extension. Note you have to notch for not only the drag link but also the track bar.

Here's what I did for a notch (notice the drag-link section is painted - that's because I had to do the job twice since I forgot about the track bar clearance. That gets raised 3" too!).

This is true, I run 3” bumps because I bottom out my shocks. If you are running the 6 pack shocks you will have even more up travel then a normal shock. Then you would have to notch the frame or limit the up travel of the shock.

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post #6 of 14 Old 12-27-2018, 08:18 PM
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Yep forgot about the track bar. Looks like my bracket has a little over an inch clearance; might be able to get away with a bit less notch over TB.
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post #7 of 14 Old 12-27-2018, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockystock View Post
Yep forgot about the track bar. Looks like my bracket has a little over an inch clearance; might be able to get away with a bit less notch over TB.
Will that red upper bump stop compress anymore?

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post #8 of 14 Old 12-27-2018, 10:08 PM
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It's much firmer than the stock foam bumper, but it will compress some. In that pic the bumper is actually not touching the pucks; it's about 1/16" above. I think with all of the chassis weight on the bumpers, they compress maybe 1/4". Can't remember how much of the bumper height I counted in my total bump stop protection; but you can't count any of the stock bumper height because the OEMs will fully compress.
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post #9 of 14 Old 12-28-2018, 03:19 AM
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[QUOTE=rockystock;4446944]It's much firmer than the stock foam bumper, but it will compress some. In that pic the bumper is actually not touching the pucks; it's about 1/16" above. I think with all of the chassis weight on the bumpers, they compress maybe 1/4". Can't remember how much of the bumper height I counted in my total bump stop protection; but you can't count any of the stock bumper height because the OEMs will fully compress.[/QUOTE

Got ya, I’m still running the OEM and need to replace them. they definitely compress all the way and I’m still able to use 3” bumps.

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post #10 of 14 Old 12-28-2018, 08:27 AM
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A drag link flip needs the extra bump stop or frame notch due to the drag link being mounted to the top of the knuckle and the link will hit the frame. So this is the fact with any high steer you look at other than any clearance bends that may be in different links. The joint on the end also has an affect on clearance. IF your link has a great big joint it will likely rob up travel from you. Like said before most shock bodies require the extra bump stop anyway so not a big deal for most people but you DO NOT want to run 6-pack shocks with a drag link flip as those shocks are designed to give you up travel and if you have that much bump stop you loose the benefits of those high dollar shocks.
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post #11 of 14 Old 12-28-2018, 12:07 PM
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my buddy had a MC game changer on his 2016 rubicon 4 door. When we installed it I told him it was odd that MC did not include a highsteer kit as he got like 4" of lift. long story short we were on a 100+ mile offroad ride (Lolo motorway)higher speed washboard and rough road. He kept complaining about how fast I was driving (mine was AEV 3.5) we swapped rigs and I could not believe the bump steer he had. He did not realize he had bump steer until he drove mine. We got back and he ordered an AEV highsteer kit. End of his bump steer.
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post #12 of 14 Old 01-02-2019, 07:16 AM
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A friend calls Metalcloak "The Flex Boys". They do put a lot of emphasis on articulation at the expense of other considerations, and their suspensions do really flex. In my experince any lift at or over 3" benefits from a raised front track bar and drag link flip on highway. Crawling on trails it won't matter much, in fact they can impart a bit more "flex steer", where the movement of the suspension causes the wheels to steer. AEV, Synergy & others make quality high steer kits. Once installed, do some measurements to make sure you've got frame clearance at full stuff. Adjust bump stop accordingly.
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post #13 of 14 Old 01-02-2019, 07:28 AM
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Other then the drag link flip (high steering) which is really due to how the 6 pack shocks work, what other considerations are you talking about? If you are not running the 6 pack shocks there is no reason you cant run high steering and the rest of the kit is designed like any other short arm kit out there. Their short arm kits don't flex any more then any other kit running conventional shocks.
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post #14 of 14 Old 01-05-2019, 07:49 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
Other then the drag link flip (high steering) which is really due to how the 6 pack shocks work, what other considerations are you talking about? If you are not running the 6 pack shocks there is no reason you cant run high steering and the rest of the kit is designed like any other short arm kit out there. Their short arm kits don't flex any more then any other kit running conventional shocks.

I guess that about sums it up. I will not be running the 6pak shocks. I will most probably start with the rock sports, then upgrade as funds allow. That way I can do steering and such before nice shocks, mines worn and needs replaced.

Thanks for all the info.

2015 JKU Rubicon, 4.5" Synergy stage 4, JRi Shocks, FOX ATS Stabilizer, 4.88 gears, 37x12.50 Trail grapplers, 17" Raceline Beadlocks.(regretfully sold)

2012 JK 2 Door, Sport, 3.73's, offensively stock, mouse in Hardtop
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