Preparing for tons – questions about brake lines and cables - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 42 Old 12-21-2018, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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Preparing for tons – questions about brake lines and cables

Hey folks, getting ready to stuff a set of 71” one ton axles under my rig and I have a couple of lingering questions.

Brake cables?
I am not getting UD60s but I know that for those axles it is recommended to get new, longer brake cables. Fusion says that this is not necessary and that all I need to do is unhook them from the retainer on the bottom of the tub. Did that to my rig years ago now as per the instructions included with the first lift my rig had (AEV 3.5 SC, FWIW). Is this enough or do I actually need the longer cables?

Brake lines?
Similar to the cables, I already have extended stainless brake lines. Northridge says you need the new lines because the attachment method on the calipers is different for the UD60s and have a specific set of lines for UD60s. Fusion says I won’t need new lines. To my eyes, these axles appear to have the same calipers, at least on the rear. What gives? I have a set of spare crush washers from Crown. Anyone have info on this?

Thanks!

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post #2 of 42 Old 12-21-2018, 02:22 PM
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What axles are you going with? I feel like unless you are stretching the axle out you should be okay.

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post #3 of 42 Old 12-21-2018, 05:21 PM
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I ran stock parking brake cables on my '07 JKU with UD60s. They worked, but they were "just long enough". I just got an '18 JKU and put my UD60s under it. I upgraded to the longer cables and it is a much better fit. Like mentioned above. What axles are you going to? Do the cables attach the same way?

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post #4 of 42 Old 12-21-2018, 05:22 PM
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Like said in the op Fusion axles.

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post #5 of 42 Old 12-21-2018, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, these bad boys:
https://www.fusion4x4.com/online-sto...-JK-p111853044


On the hydraulic lines, I think I answered my own question after watching the UD60 installation videos again and paying attention to detail. In both the Spicer and the Truck-U videos, they used the OEM mopar lines. What you could see in at least one of the videos is that the elbow on the line is at an awkward angle with the new brake calipers because the connector is on the backs of all four calipers versus on the side of all four OEM calipers.

Northridge sells a Crown / Spicer 60 brake line kit and looking at the pics on their web site, it looks like the banjo bolt connections are better angled for the UD60 calipers. The Fusion4x4 axles appear to have these same calipers. Gonna get these specific lines for a better fit...

https://www.northridge4x4.com/part/b...brake-line-kit



On the brake cables, I've heard that the left and right cables are different lengths and one might be a little too long. Does anyone know which is the shorter brake line, the left or the right? It would also be good to know if you can use two of the shorter cables, whether it be two lefts or two rights. I've had my hands on both ends of the brake cables and remember them being looking the same from left to right. There is an attachment L bracket on the cable. I wonder if the orientation of it on the cable is what makes the cable different from side to side.
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post #6 of 42 Old 12-21-2018, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
Like said in the op Fusion axles.
Edited never mind found answer above.

I never heard of them but I have been out the game for a while. What brakes are they running on those 60s
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post #7 of 42 Old 12-21-2018, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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What brakes are they running on those 60s
In the online pics, they look just like the UD60 brakes to my eyes. Dual piston calipers, front and rear. The Banjo bolts and the bleed screws are in the same spots as well as far as I can tell through my computer screen.
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post #8 of 42 Old 12-22-2018, 09:37 AM
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I run these brake lines on my SD axles. Great angles, plenty of length for my long travel and never a single leak.


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post #9 of 42 Old 12-22-2018, 09:56 AM
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I'm runnin" the Fusion 4X4 axels and yes you do need different brake lines , (Crown Performance) has what you need .

On the subject of E-Brake cables , 2dr or 4dr , I've got a 2dr and am using 4dr cables , they work OK .
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post #10 of 42 Old 12-22-2018, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I run these brake lines on my SD axles. Great angles, plenty of length for my long travel and never a single leak.
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I'm runnin" the Fusion 4X4 axels and yes you do need different brake lines , (Crown Performance) has what you need.
Thanks for the confirmation gents. Going to order this particular Crown kit from NR.

Not sure yet on the brake cables.
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post #11 of 42 Old 01-13-2019, 10:30 PM
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Did you get your axles installed yet? Mine are on but I don’t have my Jeep back yet. I did get down to Motech a few weeks ago to check out the progress and saw the axles. Super impressed with them. Can’t wait to get them back.

Oh, and what did you decide on tires?
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post #12 of 42 Old 01-14-2019, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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Did you get your axles installed yet? Mine are on but I don’t have my Jeep back yet. I did get down to Motech a few weeks ago to check out the progress and saw the axles. Super impressed with them. Can’t wait to get them back.

Oh, and what did you decide on tires?
My axles will be finished and hopefully ship by the end of this week. Right now, hopefully someone is in the middle of building them up over in Detroit.

Are your tubes welded to the pumpkins? I think that is a standard feature on these.

For tires, I may go with the KM3s in 39 due to their diminutive size. I have a big bore steering box and don't really want to go with hydro assist if i don't have to.

What I have been having trouble with is getting a new set of Trail Ready wheels. It looks like they won't even start shipping the wheels until mid to late February now, at the earliest.

Going to go with Plan B on the wheels or I'll have axles without wheels to bolt on.
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post #13 of 42 Old 01-14-2019, 05:37 PM
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Even though the KM3's tires are more like a true 37" you are going to want assist. don't forget the extra width. Stop the denial and just plan for it.

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post #14 of 42 Old 01-14-2019, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White13JKUR View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLO View Post
Did you get your axles installed yet? Mine are on but I don’t have my Jeep back yet. I did get down to Motech a few weeks ago to check out the progress and saw the axles. Super impressed with them. Can’t wait to get them back.

Oh, and what did you decide on tires?
My axles will be finished and hopefully ship by the end of this week. Right now, hopefully someone is in the middle of building them up over in Detroit. <a href="https://www.jkowners.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" >:-)</a>

Are your tubes welded to the pumpkins? I think that is a standard feature on these.

For tires, I may go with the KM3s in 39 due to their diminutive size. I have a big bore steering box and don't really want to go with hydro assist if i don't have to.

What I have been having trouble with is getting a new set of Trail Ready wheels. It looks like they won't even start shipping the wheels until mid to late February now, at the earliest.

Going to go with Plan B on the wheels or I'll have axles without wheels to bolt on.
What will you be doing with this Jeep? If your going to wheel it you will want hydro not that super expensive gimmick of a box. Is it because it’s says 39s on the sidewalls and not 40? You’re dropping some nice coin on some quality axles I would at least make sure the steering is set up proper. I only run 37s and I don’t know why I waited a year to install my assist. Best mod I ever did and it’s been problem free for five years and no I’m not running a fancy psc system. Thanks to this great forum I installed my system for less than $700. Do it once do it right
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post #15 of 42 Old 01-14-2019, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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Even though the KM3's tires are more like a true 37" you are going to want assist. don't forget the extra width. Stop the denial and just plan for it.
No denial, Tom. Just dragging my feet and being stubborn. I was doing just fine with a the stock steering gear with 37" Nittos and aired down to 7psi. My box was ported and I had all of the new hoses and ram and metal tabs to finish the job on my D44 but never installed it. Sat on the shelf for a long time.

I wasn't originally plannign for tons or tires larger than 37 and just put the PSC big bore in so I'm going to run it a while before replacing it with the ported version and a ram. I got the non ported version. PSC say its great up to 37s. I ran Nitto 37s, which recently sold. Those are not true 37s. they barely measured 36" when new IIRC. I don't feel (at least not yet) that I'll be pushing the limits that much with the big bore and the KM3s.

My stubborn ass will drive it sans-assist for now. If/when I go to assist, someone is getting a deal on a used big bore. I won't sweat it.

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What will you be doing with this Jeep? If your going to wheel it you will want hydro not that super expensive gimmick of a box. Is it because it’s says 39s on the sidewalls and not 40? You’re dropping some nice coin on some quality axles I would at least make sure the steering is set up proper. I only run 37s and I don’t know why I waited a year to install my assist. Best mod I ever did and it’s been problem free for five years and no I’m not running a fancy psc system. Thanks to this great forum I installed my system for less than $700. Do it once do it right
I'm not too worried but will play it by ear. I've been doing fine with a stock box and 37s. I've wheeled the Rubicon and other, similar NorCal territory.

I had a steering ram and hoses sitting on the shelf. I also had a synergy sector shaft brace and pulled that off after brief use. You could say I was freeballing it on 37s up until now.

I'm completely happy on 37s and as far as i know have done all but the hardest stuff on the Rubicon. No soup bowl and I've only done 2 of the 3 Sluices. Sorry, I still confuse the names.

Only reason I am feeling compelled to go larger than 37 is to compensate for the small amount of clearance lost with the wontons. Discussed this in other threads.

I know someone running 40" Nittos on a stock steering box without a ram. But it's a two door and he really knows how to wheel. Won't mention names.


Edit: I also have the PSC pump and high flow hoses and reservoir already. Hydro assist won't be difficult to add.

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post #16 of 42 Old 01-14-2019, 07:51 PM
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Edit: I also have the PSC pump and high flow hoses and reservoir already. Hydro assist won't be difficult to add.
Good, so . . .

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EDIT: It's not just saving you some steering hassles, it's taking at least half of the steering load off a section of frame that I prefer not to entrust with the full load. Hydro eliminates any need for a steering stabilizer, steering box brace, or worrying about if that section of frame is going to tear away some day.

With everything else built up around it, why not add that peace of mind?

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post #17 of 42 Old 01-15-2019, 07:28 AM
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Why not just port your box instead of selling it and buying a ported one?

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post #18 of 42 Old 01-15-2019, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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Why not just port your box instead of selling it and buying a ported one?
It's the PSC box big bore. Probably it can be ported but have not heard of anyone doing it yet. PSC says they won't upgrade it to the one with their housing on it and I think that one has a bigger bore too, anyway.

I'll look into porting my current box anyway. Good idea.
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post #19 of 42 Old 01-15-2019, 09:18 PM
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It's the PSC box big bore. Probably it can be ported but have not heard of anyone doing it yet. PSC says they won't upgrade it to the one with their housing on it and I think that one has a bigger bore too, anyway.

I'll look into porting my current box anyway. Good idea.
If you ran the big bore box + assist cylinder, your steering would probably have "too much" assist at higher RPM and a boatload of lag at lower RPM. Both of those mechanical advantage gains cost hydraulic fluid flow and increase force multiplication. You'd need a bigger / faster pump to avoid lag at low speed, then have near-zero feel and likely a scary-twitchy highway experience. Maybe OK with like 30 degrees of caster?


Best time to port your stock box is when you don't even need it since you're running another one .
Feel free to hit me up if you have any questions about the porting.

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post #20 of 42 Old 01-15-2019, 09:44 PM
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There was a good thread a while ago about porting a stock box that I followed and have had good success with my Jeep.

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post #21 of 42 Old 01-15-2019, 10:24 PM
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My axles will be finished and hopefully ship by the end of this week. Right now, hopefully someone is in the middle of building them up over in Detroit. <a href="https://www.jkowners.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" >:-)</a>

Are your tubes welded to the pumpkins? I think that is a standard feature on these.

For tires, I may go with the KM3s in 39 due to their diminutive size. I have a big bore steering box and don't really want to go with hydro assist if i don't have to.

What I have been having trouble with is getting a new set of Trail Ready wheels. It looks like they won't even start shipping the wheels until mid to late February now, at the earliest.

Going to go with Plan B on the wheels or I'll have axles without wheels to bolt on.
It’ll be worth the wait. I did ask Dan to fully weld the tubes to the diff housing. It wasn’t “standard” but he said no problem when I asked.

I had the same issue with TR. I am actually first on the list for the initial run at the new plant but I ended up getting some Machete Deserts (XD228). I’m actually glad I went that route. I really like them now that I’ve seen them in person. Not American made but happy none the less. Sending them off to powder coat before I mount them on the 40” STT Pros.
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post #22 of 42 Old 01-16-2019, 03:34 AM
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If you ran the big bore box + assist cylinder, your steering would probably have "too much" assist at higher RPM and a boatload of lag at lower RPM. Both of those mechanical advantage gains cost hydraulic fluid flow and increase force multiplication. You'd need a bigger / faster pump to avoid lag at low speed, then have near-zero feel and likely a scary-twitchy highway experience. Maybe OK with like 30 degrees of caster?





Best time to port your stock box is when you don't even need it since you're running another one .

Feel free to hit me up if you have any questions about the porting.
Negative ghost rider. You match your ram to the size of the pump to the size of the tires. That way you dont sneeze and throw the steering wheel to the right or left.

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post #23 of 42 Old 01-16-2019, 08:23 AM
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Negative ghost rider.
I'm unclear on what we disagree about


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You match your ram to the size of the pump to the size of the tires. That way you dont sneeze and throw the steering wheel to the right or left.
Still not seeing what we disagree about?

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post #24 of 42 Old 01-16-2019, 09:06 AM
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I'm unclear on what we disagree about







Still not seeing what we disagree about?
In the first part of your post you said it wont work because adding a ram to a big bore will have to much power at high rpms and not enough down low.
You match the ram size to what the steering set up you have.
High flow pump and stock steering box or after market box and facotry pump ect... Companys like west texas offroad have it figured out so when you call/email them, tell them what you have, what you use it for and they size the ram for your setup.

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post #25 of 42 Old 01-16-2019, 09:52 AM
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