PSC BIG BORE XDII TRACK BAR CLEARANCE - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 56 Old 11-19-2018, 05:58 AM Thread Starter
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PSC BIG BORE XDII TRACK BAR CLEARANCE

I'm getting ready to install the PSC Big Bore XDII steering gear in my 18 JKUR this coming weekend. Will be installing the PSC pump, reservoir, pressure line, and their cooler and return line kit at the same time. Been searching with regards to install write-ups, and track bar clearance, with not a whole lot of luck. Kind of surprised actually that I haven't found a more detailed install write-up, especially considering PSC doesn't include any instructions. They have some install instructions for their cylinder assist using an older ported box, and on a 3.8L motor, but nothing more recent. I found a decent video by Havoc Offroad on line, and I'm relatively certain I'll be able to figure it out between what I've pieced together through various other references, but was surprised to not see something more detailed and specific to these parts being installed in a newer JK with the 3.6L. It's all pretty much the same I guess. I'm mechanically inclined enough to figure it out.

Anyways... I'm more concerned about track bar clearance at this point. I've found through research that it sounds like Synergy track bar will clear with no issues, and I've also heard the new RK track bar is designed to clear this box. I'm currently running a Metalcloak TB. Anyone running the Metalcloak TB with the new PSC Big Bore XDII? Any install tips?


My front end setup...
18 JKUR
Metalcloak Game Changer lift (3.5" front/2.5" rear)
Falcon 3.3 shocks
Synergy Tie Rod and Drag Link
Artec D44 Armor Kit
Method 17" MR305 wheels (5" BS)
Ridge Grappler 285/75R17 (i.e. 34"x11.5") tires
Dynatrac ProGrip brake kit


I think that pretty much covers everything not stock in my front end in case any of it matters with regards to my install plans for this weekend.

This is my daily, and I'm military stationed in Germany. Would hate to get finished with this install only to find out I need a new trackbar. Takes 8-12 days to get parts in the mail. Thanks in advance.

//

Chris
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post #2 of 56 Old 11-19-2018, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by smittycm View Post
I'm getting ready to install the PSC Big Bore XDII steering gear in my 18 JKUR this coming weekend. Will be installing the PSC pump, reservoir, pressure line, and their cooler and return line kit at the same time. Been searching with regards to install write-ups, and track bar clearance, with not a whole lot of luck. Kind of surprised actually that I haven't found a more detailed install write-up, especially considering PSC doesn't include any instructions. They have some install instructions for their cylinder assist using an older ported box, and on a 3.8L motor, but nothing more recent. I found a decent video by Havoc Offroad on line, and I'm relatively certain I'll be able to figure it out between what I've pieced together through various other references, but was surprised to not see something more detailed and specific to these parts being installed in a newer JK with the 3.6L. It's all pretty much the same I guess. I'm mechanically inclined enough to figure it out.

Anyways... I'm more concerned about track bar clearance at this point. I've found through research that it sounds like Synergy track bar will clear with no issues, and I've also heard the new RK track bar is designed to clear this box. I'm currently running a Metalcloak TB. Anyone running the Metalcloak TB with the new PSC Big Bore XDII? Any install tips?


My front end setup...
18 JKUR
Metalcloak Game Changer lift (3.5" front/2.5" rear)
Falcon 3.3 shocks
Synergy Tie Rod and Drag Link
Artec D44 Armor Kit
Method 17" MR305 wheels (5" BS)
Ridge Grappler 285/75R17 (i.e. 34"x11.5") tires
Dynatrac ProGrip brake kit


I think that pretty much covers everything not stock in my front end in case any of it matters with regards to my install plans for this weekend.

This is my daily, and I'm military stationed in Germany. Would hate to get finished with this install only to find out I need a new trackbar. Takes 8-12 days to get parts in the mail. Thanks in advance.
I have heard that the synergy trackbar clears without issue. I have also heard, the teraflex trackbar wont work

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post #3 of 56 Old 11-19-2018, 06:17 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stevenjoh1972 View Post
I have heard that the synergy trackbar clears without issue. I have also heard, the teraflex trackbar wont work

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Yep, I'm tracking the Synergy bar clears. I'm specifically looking for confirmation as to whether the Metalcloak bar clears or not. If not, then I'm prepared to buy the Synergy. I'm already running their drag link and tie rod. I like Synergy, but I like Metalcloak all the same. Don't want to buy a new TB if I don't have to.

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post #4 of 56 Old 11-19-2018, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by smittycm View Post
Yep, I'm tracking the Synergy bar clears. I'm specifically looking for confirmation as to whether the Metalcloak bar clears or not. If not, then I'm prepared to buy the Synergy. I'm already running their drag link and tie rod. I like Synergy, but I like Metalcloak all the same. Don't want to buy a new TB if I don't have to.
I know a guy that ran the metal cloak with the 3.6L and had no issues.

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post #5 of 56 Old 11-19-2018, 07:03 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stevenjoh1972 View Post
I know a guy that ran the metal cloak with the 3.6L and had no issues.

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Do you mean he was running a Metalcloak TB with the new PSC Big Bore XDII? I appreciate the feedback.

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post #6 of 56 Old 11-19-2018, 07:03 AM
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Do you mean he was running a Metalcloak TB with the new PSC Big Bore XDII? I appreciate the feedback.
Yes sir

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post #7 of 56 Old 11-19-2018, 07:13 AM Thread Starter
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Yes sir

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Perfect! Thanks for the quick response.

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post #8 of 56 Old 11-20-2018, 08:13 PM
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I just installed a big bore (non-ported) with a metalcloack track bar. I got rid of my synergy track bars, tie rod and drag link.

If you call PSC, they might tell you that the one bar that had interference issues was a Teraflex. They might also mention that they have not seen issues with Metalcloak or Synerjgy if you ask.
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post #9 of 56 Old 11-20-2018, 11:38 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by White13JKUR View Post
I just installed a big bore (non-ported) with a metalcloack track bar. I got rid of my synergy track bars, tie rod and drag link.

If you call PSC, they might tell you that the one bar that had interference issues was a Teraflex. They might also mention that they have not seen issues with Metalcloak or Synerjgy if you ask.
Thanks for the info. I have the ported version, but I don't believe that will have any impact on TB clearance. I did call PSC, and the guy I spoke with couldn't say if there would be an issue with the MC track bar. I also called Metalcloak and Cloakworks 4x4. Neither of them knew for sure, and the guy at Metalcloak actually told me that he had "heard" that there were issues with Big Bore clearance and their track bar, so I ended up pulling the trigger on a Synergy track bar since that seems to be the only track bar that people could for sure tell me didn't have clearance issues.

Again, I'm stationed in Germany and this is my daily driver. Sucks, but decided it'd be better to spend the money on a track bar I know works vs. getting mostly done with the install only to find out something is incompatible. That's the cost of being overseas I suppose. The Metalcloak track bar has less than 5k miles on it. I might keep it on there if I get it all buttoned back up and don't see a clearance issue. I figure I can always return the Synergy bar and eat the shipping costs, or sell either one locally and recoup at least some of my costs. There are quite a few military Jeepers over here that'd probably be interested in either bar and would love to save on shipping.

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post #10 of 56 Old 11-21-2018, 07:22 PM
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The synergy bar will clear without issues. I run that with my psc box.

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post #11 of 56 Old 11-30-2018, 03:39 AM
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I just sprung for the XDII...

Looking forward to getting this bad boy installed before some snow wheelin'

Hope your install goes nice & smooth man
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post #12 of 56 Old 11-30-2018, 05:38 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DJ1 View Post
I just sprung for the XDII...

Looking forward to getting this bad boy installed before some snow wheelin'

Hope your install goes nice & smooth man
Thanks... the install went pretty smooth. Took me about 11 hours total. Are you doing the pump, reservoir, and cooler as well? A couple notes...

- The most time consuming part for me I think was routing/plumbing all the new lines. Didn't want to destroy the stock lines just in case, so ended up dropping the sway bar in order to be able to fish the lines out. I also hadn't put much thought into how I was going to mount the inline cooler, so that slowed me down while I figured something out. I ended up only using two of the bolt hole locations and just mounted it to the underside of the radiator fan shroud. I don't like it all that much and think I'm going to try and find a better spot near the same location. Hopefully I left myself enough line to move it. It was little things like that that I wasn't expecting and added to my timeline. If I had planned it out a little better I could have probably finished in a day.

- The stock location where they have you install the reservoir is VERY tight with the stock airbox. I did as best as I could and the stock airbox is still rubbing up against the lines and the reservoir. I actually went ahead and ordered the RIPP intake kit in order to create more space in that area.

- The Pitman arm nut was 46mm, or at least that's what size socket I was told to get by PSC and it worked. Ordered it on Amazon a few days in advance. Also scored a giant ass Tekton 3/4" drive torque wrench that goes to 300 ft/lbs on Amazon for $50. I was able to torque that nut to 225 pretty easy. Should also come in handy on those jam nuts all over my suspension and steering that occasionally like to come loose.

- The steering gear is pretty freaking heavy! I wasn't able to get it up into place by myself. Was already 6+ hours into the install and was getting tired. Failed to eat my Wheaties that morning. I shoulder pressed it up into place myself, but then needed a third hand to get one of the bolts started for me. No issues once that first bolt was started.

- Getting to the lines was pretty tight. I ended up using a crowsfoot wrench to break things loose. I read a trick after the fact where you can remove all but one of the two front bolts and let the box rotate down in order to access the lines from the wheel well. You might have to remove the spring for that though... not sure.

- PSC provided no kind of instructions. They sucked in that regard. They had some outdated stuff you can download online that you can pull a thing from here and there, but nothing specific to this install in a JK with 3.6L that I could find. I figured it out by researching a bunch of threads and watching some videos I found online. Used stock torque specs for pretty much everything except the Pitman arm nut, which I think I heard in a video to torque to 225 ft/lbs.

- I can hear the pump at idle and low RPM. Makes a slight whirring sound. Goes away at RPM, or the engine noise is just drowning it out. It's not a super loud noise, but I can hear it over my radio sometimes. Maybe I just need to turn the volume up. Anyways, doesn't appear to be affecting performance... yet.

- Careful not to overfill the reservoir. I filled it to 1" below the top like PSC recommended, but I ended up blowing a shit ton of fluid out all over the place while bleeding the system. Which reminds me, create yourself some sort of catch can for that overflow tube if you want to avoid a mess.

In the end I'm super happy with the install. Steering is great. Nice and light and very responsive. I actually can't believe I was driving the Jeep around for as long as I did with the stock pump going out like it was. The Jeep steers nicer than my wife's 2018 Grand Cherokee that's barely a couple months old.

Let me know if you run into any issues.
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//

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post #13 of 56 Old 11-30-2018, 12:57 PM
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Sweet man. Thanks for the insight. This is gonna help, I'm sure...

Yup. Got everything. High-flow pump and aux cooler. Even got the jug of flushing oil.

Definitely like the ported version for options later. I'm really stoked because it was the last one in stock I could find and it looks like PSC might not have stock coming in for another 3-4 weeks. I hate waiting for parts even if they don't get installed right away. At least it'll be ready sitting in the garage...

Mine's set to arrive Tuesday but it's been raining a shit-ton lately so we'll see what happens next week.

Same boat though. Will keep all the stock parts just in case I ever need to swap this unit over to a 4-door.

Been reading on other threads about the interference with the stock intake. I know one guy kept his but I think he notched out the stock intake box to get it to work but now you have a lower ingress point for water. Was hoping to keep it so not sure yet which route I'll go on that...

Thanks again man for posting up the extras...

*edit*
Just saw you're out there in Japan. Been awhile since I was last out there. Miss that cold soba...
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Last edited by DJ1; 11-30-2018 at 01:04 PM.
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post #14 of 56 Old 11-30-2018, 01:24 PM
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...also, for anyone else planning to do this install in the future, it's been highly recommended to get a "basin wrench" as well to add to your stash of tools...

A bunch of different ones out there but I'll probably get one like this:

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I've never used one but I hear it comes in handy...
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post #15 of 56 Old 11-30-2018, 02:11 PM
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I've got mine installed. Haven't been able to drive the jeep much except to get beer two blocks away on a couple of occasions. You know - busted pinion teeth and all.

Anyway, I would recommend not putting too much effort into saving the stock tubing. There are at least two reasons.

First of all, the PSC tubing is larger and higher flow and you need that in order to take full advantage of the new power you have in this steering box.

The other reason is that the stock pressure line has a lining that can melt when hot - like when out on the trail with large, aired down tires and stock everything in terms of power steering.

A (my) third reason is that you won't need to fugg around with buying fluid and flushing the old lines. Instead, you would be plumbing a completely new system and you can use the regular GM power steering fluid instead of the swepco. My closest parts store has the GM stuff readily available, FWIW. Yours may too. and PSC says that the GM fluid is fine.

After trying to get the original return line out, I said heck with it and hacked it out in 22.3 seconds. Shit-canned the parts with a smile and haven't looked back. I'd try to fit a brand new one back in if needed, anyway. That and the PSC return line is flexible, more direct (fewer bends and a more direct shot) and larger in ID so higher flow. The fittings are super high quality.

You can get a return line kit with or without the inline cooler. It's basically two kits that you can buy independently or together - the hose kit and the cooler. I have the cooler but rigged it all up without the cooler for now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ1 View Post
...also, for anyone else planning to do this install in the future, it's been highly recommended to get a "basin wrench" as well to add to your stash of tools...

I've never used one but I hear it comes in handy...
Who was high and recommended that tool? You heard from a high person that it comes in handy?

Where/how do you see that useful? Disagree. I used all hand tools. In fact the tool you need is different and I accidentally purchased two and you are welcome to come buy the spare off me in person. Sealed in box new. You can get a look at my big bore install too and then go to the Blackhawk car museum up the street.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QO9GU6

You are also (probably) going to need a 1/2" to 3/4" drive socket adapter because sockets that large are 3/4" drive. I already had one of those from back in the 1980's for the rear eccentric shaft nut on rotary engines when removing and replacing the flywheels.

https://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-94.../dp/B016SEIKS0

OBTW, it is for your pitman arm nut. It's way bigger than the old nut on the stock box.

Last edited by White13JKUR; 11-30-2018 at 02:13 PM.
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post #16 of 56 Old 11-30-2018, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by White13JKUR View Post
I've got mine installed. Haven't been able to drive the jeep much except to get beer two blocks away on a couple of occasions. You know - busted pinion teeth and all.

Anyway, I would recommend not putting too much effort into saving the stock tubing. There are at least two reasons.

First of all, the PSC tubing is larger and higher flow and you need that in order to take full advantage of the new power you have in this steering box.

The other reason is that the stock pressure line has a lining that can melt when hot - like when out on the trail with large, aired down tires and stock everything in terms of power steering.

A (my) third reason is that you won't need to fugg around with buying fluid and flushing the old lines. Instead, you would be plumbing a completely new system and you can use the regular GM power steering fluid instead of the swepco. My closest parts store has the GM stuff readily available, FWIW. Yours may too. and PSC says that the GM fluid is fine.

After trying to get the original return line out, I said heck with it and hacked it out in 22.3 seconds. Shit-canned the parts with a smile and haven't looked back. I'd try to fit a brand new one back in if needed, anyway. That and the PSC return line is flexible, more direct (fewer bends and a more direct shot) and larger in ID so higher flow. The fittings are super high quality.

You can get a return line kit with or without the inline cooler. It's basically two kits that you can buy independently or together - the hose kit and the cooler. I have the cooler but rigged it all up without the cooler for now.




Who was high and recommended that tool? You heard from a high person that it comes in handy?

Where/how do you see that useful? Disagree. I used all hand tools. In fact the tool you need is different and I accidentally purchased two and you are welcome to come buy the spare off me in person. Sealed in box new. You can get a look at my big bore install too and then go to the Blackhawk car museum up the street.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004QO9GU6

You are also (probably) going to need a 1/2" to 3/4" drive socket adapter because sockets that large are 3/4" drive. I already had one of those from back in the 1980's for the rear eccentric shaft nut on rotary engines when removing and replacing the flywheels.

https://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-94.../dp/B016SEIKS0

OBTW, it is for your pitman arm nut. It's way bigger than the old nut on the stock box.

Sounds good. Thanks man. I'll have to compile all this install info and read 4x lol

The tool was recommended here:
---> https://www.jkowners.com/forum/4329953-post249.html


If it's not needed, well at least I got one now if I ever need to jack around with my bathroom sink LOL. Could always return it but it's "Made In the USA" so I'll probably just keep it. I found one online that's a telescopic version with square tubing....

I did get all the lines from PSC so I'm assuming I won't have to use any stock lines connecting the box-pump-cooler-reservoir all together...

*edit*
Just keeping all the stock parts + lines I'm taking out just in case I decide to swap everything back out to a different rig...

Last edited by DJ1; 11-30-2018 at 02:29 PM.
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post #17 of 56 Old 11-30-2018, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by DJ1 View Post
Sounds good. Thanks man. I'll have to compile all this install info and read 4x lol

The tool was recommended here:
---> https://www.jkowners.com/forum/4329953-post249.html


If it's not needed, well at least I got one now if I ever need to jack around with my bathroom sink LOL. Could always return it but it's "Made In the USA" so I'll probably just keep it. I found one online that's a telescopic version with square tubing....

I did get all the lines from PSC so I'm assuming I won't have to use any stock lines connecting the box-pump-cooler-reservoir all together...

*edit*
Just keeping all the stock parts + lines I'm taking out just in case I decide to swap everything back out to a different rig...

No clue what you need that tool for, even after reading the post.

You don't necessarily need to pull your old pitman arm off. I dropped the the stock (RNR-ported-but-capped-off) box out with the pitman arm still on it.

The new box and pitman arm come disassembled. This is why you need the socket. That box is a heavy mo-fo so you'l want to leave the pitman arm off just so you can shove it in there more easily. This is why you need that socket and adapter. Forgot the torque but it's big torque - more than the stock box. use a 2x4 or a pipe between pitman arm and frame when tightening.

I had my track bar out because i was swapping Synergy for Metalcloak anyway. I had them side by side. They both clear IMHO.

If you are like me and have to install that heavy beast on your back, you need to pre-plan your exit so you don't crack your skull in two. Maybe stuff it in there with a friend. Get your skulls out of the drop zone! Do some practice lifts. I got mine up in there solo. I did also make sure and warn the family to not come blasting out into the garage crying about an ipad charger or some crap while I did the deed.

Um, yeah, so good luck getting the stock return line out. You can't really just leave it there, either. Pressure line is easy. Return line is the one that sucks to get out. I jumped in with both feet and made the commitment to replace the stock return line with a flexible line like the PSC lines. Or you could just do a cooler kit for the return line on the stock pump and box and call it a day. that would be a better solution than the stock return line anyway.

Last edited by White13JKUR; 11-30-2018 at 02:56 PM.
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post #18 of 56 Old 12-02-2018, 06:43 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by White13JKUR View Post
No clue what you need that tool for, even after reading the post.
Pretty sure they used that tool to tighten the fittings on the steering box. If he has a set of crows foot wrenches I think he'd be better off. Good call on the 1/2" to 3/4" adapter. I ended up buying a giant ass torque wrench that came in 3/4" drive, so didn't think about mentioning the adapter for that socket. The torque wrench I bought goes up to 300 ft/lbs, and is super large. Was relatively easy to get to 225 ft/lbs. I believe 225 ft/lbs is what I read you're supposed to torque that new pitman arm nut to.

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post #19 of 56 Old 12-02-2018, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by smittycm View Post
Pretty sure they used that tool to tighten the fittings on the steering box. If he has a set of crows foot wrenches I think he'd be better off. Good call on the 1/2" to 3/4" adapter. I ended up buying a giant ass torque wrench that came in 3/4" drive, so didn't think about mentioning the adapter for that socket. The torque wrench I bought goes up to 300 ft/lbs, and is super large. Was relatively easy to get to 225 ft/lbs. I believe 225 ft/lbs is what I read you're supposed to torque that new pitman arm nut to.
I've had the steering box out of my jeep several times now. No special tools or crow's feet needed. That tool looks cool so it you want it, buy it. Personally, I would be worried about boogering up the aluminum fittings with that fancy tool.

The 3/4" drive torque wrench may have limited use on a jeep, especially if you don't have any 3/4" drive sockets or extensions. It has been my experience that it is the diesel and big truck techs that invest into 3/4" drive tools. Well, aside from an odd socket and an adapter.
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post #20 of 56 Old 12-02-2018, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by White13JKUR View Post
I've had the steering box out of my jeep several times now. No special tools or crow's feet needed. That tool looks cool so it you want it, buy it. Personally, I would be worried about boogering up the aluminum fittings with that fancy tool.

The 3/4" drive torque wrench may have limited use on a jeep, especially if you don't have any 3/4" drive sockets or extensions. It has been my experience that it is the diesel and big truck techs that invest into 3/4" drive tools. Well, aside from an odd socket and an adapter.
I figured I'd be able to get use out of the torque wrench on most all the jam nuts I have as well that also call for 250+ ft/lbs. So far I've just been using a couple large crescents with 24" steel pipe as breaker bars, but I seriously doubt I'm getting anywhere near the torque they call for. I figure this bad boy along with some crows foot wrenches of the right size should work nicely. Only time will tell if I get my money's worth out of it I suppose. I'm also a bit of a tool whore, so there's also that.

Agreed that I wouldn't want to use that basin wrench to gouge up those aluminum fittings though.

//

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post #21 of 56 Old 12-02-2018, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smittycm View Post
I figured I'd be able to get use out of the torque wrench on most all the jam nuts I have as well that also call for 250+ ft/lbs. So far I've just been using a couple large crescents with 24" steel pipe as breaker bars, but I seriously doubt I'm getting anywhere near the torque they call for. I figure this bad boy along with some crows foot wrenches of the right size should work nicely. Only time will tell if I get my money's worth out of it I suppose. I'm also a bit of a tool whore, so there's also that.

Agreed that I wouldn't want to use that basin wrench to gouge up those aluminum fittings though.
I have an old set of Craftsman combo wrenches and have the exact size. Home Depot may have the exact size wrench for cheap. Without running down and looking, I think the trick to it might have been putting the pressure line on first.

Still have what's left of an old Craftsman crow's foot wrench set that I have had since I was 17. Never used them, not even when I was a tech.

I have an old SnapOn torque wrench and had to use the top of the range. Hope it was accurate.

Good luck with your installs, @smittycm & @DJ1
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post #22 of 56 Old 12-02-2018, 01:05 PM
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Are all of you guys running this XD box using the PSC power steering pump as well? Also how is the steering when locked and trying to turn?

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post #23 of 56 Old 12-02-2018, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08JKUR33 View Post
Are all of you guys running this XD box using the PSC power steering pump as well? Also how is the steering when locked and trying to turn?

Smitty is, I will be, not sure if White13JKUR is though...

Keep in mind there are also 2 versions of this box. The standard XD (non-ported) has a beefy 80mm piston. The XDii (ported) has an even beefier 85mm piston.

The standard XD has been shown to move 40s with ease on pavement non-locked although this box is primarily marketed to those on 37s.

With lower weight 37s for which it was originally designed for, probably not a problem for steering when locked but the main advantage I see is to be able to turn with more confidence when the tire is wedged in a non-locked scenario.

For me, the more I'm able to steer in/out of an obstacle without even having to engage my front locker, the better. I don't use my front ARB unless I absolutely have to.
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post #24 of 56 Old 12-02-2018, 06:27 PM
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I was going to put a pcs pump in several months after I installed their box but when I talked to the parts house I deal with they told me that there is a difference in the way the box operates at an idle but if I wasn't having a problem with my stock pump there was no need to replace it yet.

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post #25 of 56 Old 12-02-2018, 06:37 PM
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The main reason why I would go ahead and change out the stock pump while you're in there is because the OEM pump uses weak plastic fins that burn up under heavy load.

Lots of cases of guys just burning up the OEM pumps from either just doing donuts offroad and/or maneuvering through obstacles (where I'm assuming the driver was either getting the tires wedged a lot or just had 1 to many hard turns within a short time frame).
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