install PSC assisted steering on 2011 JKU with 3" lift and all OEM link locations - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 07-30-2018, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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install PSC assisted steering on 2011 JKU with 3" lift and all OEM link locations


I own a 2011 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara.
It has been relegated to a sporadic existence in that it is not a daily driver and is recently going to be trailered to the dozen or so offroad trips it makes annually.
It is a very good little Jeep .
I have modified it a bit. I am not into intentionally tall or lifted vehicles, so it only has 3" of coil spring in the front and 2" out back.
I am on my 3rd set of 37" tires on 17's with this config.


You can see that for tires to lift ratio, I am pushing the minimum height with tires this size before you have to bump-stop the fun out of it. I have it bumped with only a 1/4" of stoppage on up-compression. It drives perfect and I did not want to alter one thing about the suspension.

The biggest thing to check-out in this pict is the lack of much real-estate down there around the trackbar bracket ( Artec stock location bracket; not raised) . It is a tight squeeze. I do not have the Draglink flipped nor do i have the tie-rod flipped.

Fortunately, my daughter and I have been wheelin more frequently lately...fun stuff like this:


but,my steering sucked balls.

I wuz tired of good spotters tellin me to turn the wheel and not being able to ( without moving an inch forward or backwards which, depending on the ledge ,doesn't always work -as I am sure you know) .



besides ; I'd already busted 2 stock steering gearboxes . This was the third box. It was also the costliest since I oprdered it two years ago from PSC, with the intention of adding assisted ram to the setup as I could afford to. I have been runnin' it just as stock box with ports capped-off for 2-3 years.

So, now you are almost caught-up. Recently and what felt like many moons later, these boxes showed-up at the door:



I test fit the cylinder to make sure it'd fit in all the frankensteined parts I have modded over the years. I have a Synergy Mfg stabilizer relocation bracket burned securely upon the face of the Artec stock spot bracket.
I figured I’d cont to use this setup since it has worked well both with the Fox ATS for several years as-well-as w/ my old KING SS ( 10” of throw! ) that was too large but ! it too fit in this tiny space, so, I thought it should work (?)...
test-fitting ram on the Synergy MFG-Artec bastard bracket:



I started three weekends ago . First , I cleaned nearly a decade of mud/dirt/grease out from wirelooms, corners, pulleys , etc. I’m gonna be armpit deep in & under her many times ; I know what’s up...
Then I started taking the old steering components out. Airbox,intake , belt ,reservoir ( use a massive syringehelped to pre-empty old fluid)

I had the luxury of taking as much time as I wished to ; that made a difference.

using the great video's that Doc14 from JKO has plus another few made it simple. Plus, recent write-ups and past ones on here also helped.

I knew enough about the location I was installing the reservoir in to cover it in Heatshield Products stuff. Over-top of the pssgr exhaust mani gets stupendously hot.I used a thermal sleeve on the feed and return lines and coated the bottom of the fluid tank in heat shield matting which is capable of handling over 1500 degrees F. & is designed for clearances of as low as 1” of space.( I had about 2”-3” between heater hoses and new tank bottom. )
Should be alright .

I left the zip and Grip-Loc ties I used in place for folks to see. These held the return line hose to the OEM airbox neck to support it fro contacting the new PSC pump pulley and some other runs of hose.
I trimmed them eventually.

fwiw,the black mat thing on the left ,over air-box, redirects water if it happens to make it in the louver over that spot.


tight fit...with hood closed ,I got it fine-tuned to where about 1/2" of space exists over top of the breather-hose on reservoir. I had to pop-off that grounding bolt that is directly over this location on the 07-11s hood and I used the same nut with a 10mm bolt about 3" to the passenger side for the grounding strap that goes to hood.
here without the heat-shield products velcro thermal sleeves on the lines:





here you can see the placement of the cooler I used. Just the one that PSC sells. It was 14” single-pass Derale heatsink which required that I run a longer return-line over from that side but it was no big deal. You may wanna purchase additional 1/2” transmission hose if you are sloppy . I also used 1/2” NPT female end to 3/8” NPT male end hose barb fittings to run the 3/8” factory line at the pssgr corner from just past where it exits across the frontvas a hard-line , re-directed into the Derale 1/2” hose. That then pokes-up thru the plastic air channeling plastic surrounding your radiator on each side to be clamped with fuel-line hose clamps to the 1/2” Derale cooler inlet on pssgr side. While that sounds more complicated than it is , future installer DIYers will understand wtf that means. You can get such converting barbs at your local HW megastore in plumbing area ( these are low pressure return line hoses so it’ll be cool. I mention since that stuff isn’t really mentioned in many of the write ups nor instructions . Anyway, this cooler sits just in front of my aux tranny cooler from B&M. I used it angled forward a bit with some silicone behind it against the other cooler:



here you can see the cooler peekin from behind the grill after installation completed.
it is tight, but grill snaps-back On & fits . Some liquid-electric tape on its ‘feet’ surface & on the fasteners that hold it down help to ensure doesn’t rattle :



Here , I would like to point-out one BIG TAKE-AWAY from this re-hash of an install that thousands of folks have performed ; The Freaking Instructions from PSC Motorsports for the Jeep JK are WRONG.

Heck, they don’t even deserve the ”w” due-to their hose routing guide illustration for hydraulic hoses to the ram were so blatantly rong !

PSCMotorsports sends you a run diagram that shows the port closest to firewall as going to driver port of the cylinder. it its the opposite up-at the PSC version of the steering gear. Your PASSENGER hose will go to the port closest to your firewall if you're using the PSC standard steering gear that they sell with the JK kit or have purchased as a replacement. I only wasted about half a quart of damned expensive "lubrium" love-juice , anti-foaming , $wepco brand power steering fluid since I realized the ram was operating opposite to desired direction thus I had to go back the driver wheelwell and swap the hoses at the gearbox ports . .
Correct your instructions, PSC!!


Anyway, here it all sits in as tight a configuration as you'd care to turn the wheel on. 3" lift with all stock location linkages up front:


finally, here it all sits after being bled, refilled and tested. No contact is being made at flex,droop or either turn:


Those with a sharp eye will notice that, as others will suggest, if you have a Synergy Mfg (8007) tie-rod installed, you are gonna want to use the misalignment spacer ~ dust-cap combo to wipe-away the rod-flop that will be far more apparent with the force of a hydraulic ram installed. Don’t forget to get pissed-off for one final time during this install due-to how crappy all grease guns work but, ultimately , give the TREs a good 4-5 squirts of molybdenum high-quality grease....

I suppose nearly the best thing that can be said about upgrading one stock part to another might be that you cannot tell a difference in driving behavior. I cannot tell any difference on the road. Well, maybe just-a hair more sensitive input, but it is nearly transparent from a driving perspective. However, I can steer the big tires as if they were 30" tires on the Jeep. Like butter is all that is impeding turning what I could not before.
While just sitting still I can turn the nearly too sticky for their own good Yokohama’s & year the sweet, annoying cheeps and chirps of a 36.75” , 98lb MT tire turning on a jeep that’s sitting still. Purty cool.

I will update this once i take it offroad and gain that perspective.
I cannot claim to have been ‘blown away’ and it is probably not the best upgrade I have ever done to the Jeep but I sure will be glad if I dont have to replace the steering gearbox a fourth time and can steer in the rocks when friends tell me to ...


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post #2 of 34 Old 07-30-2018, 09:46 PM
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Very nice, thanks for posting your project. I've had the PSC reservoir and pump for about 40k miles now with my 3.8. I'd recommend squeezing some additional insulation around the reservoir (it just bakes in that spot right above the exhaust manifold). I took the overflow line from the reservoir and stuck it in an empty white motor oil bottle (just drilled a tight fitting hole for the tube), and then stuck the bottle between the battery and TIPM. Maybe throw a zip tie or two around the bottle but it didn't go anywhere. A little redneck but it worked well, plus I simply unscrewed the original bottle cap to occasionally see how much fluid was going overboard (the white bottle made seeing inside easy). After a few hundred miles the level in the overflow bottle stabilized so everything looked good.

Swapping to hemi, but keeping the PSC parts. Probably going to see about a redneck ram and steering box rebuild/port. I took my steering fluid filter apart and found some small chunks of teflon - probably the steering box internals starting to go (at 110,000 miles and on 35s, no assist, for the last 40k). Also thought about leaving the Synergy sector shaft brace off with the hydro assist, but will probably put it back on (it slowly spreads grease around the area of the needle bearing, making an annoying mess, and the needles got clogged with dirt anyway). Anyways, it looks real good; hope it performs well for you.

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post #3 of 34 Old 07-31-2018, 05:05 AM Thread Starter
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tanks, @rockystock ; those are good bits of info. Not redneck at all to run a bottle , heh. I just routed the overflow hose down thru that side fender sheet metal which would allow any that is pressured out to vacate the rig thru where Iíve trimmed the sheet metal and below the old Sahara logo spot, if that makes sense. I might get or make an overflow filter or just spend on the PSC trap.

You also suggest wrapping even the sides of the fluid reservoir,huh? I have more heat matting but the entire bottom is coated. I can use the cool tape on the sides. Iíll look at temps after running and determine, thank for heads up.

Speaking of ďheads-up ď ; you mentioned you found Teflon in your filter when you changed it ; I maybe am incorrect in thinking that the Teflon bits being heat deteriorated off the high-pressure hose or return line from factory was only applicable to 2012 and up jk Pentastarís ? You say the gearbox itself maybe lost some? I didnít think the 07-11s were susceptible to such ....

Yeah, it wasnít hard but it was tedious so I hope it pays off. Enjoy your HEMI ! Thatíd be a fun upgrade!



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post #4 of 34 Old 07-31-2018, 05:55 AM
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Nice write up!!
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I've also read that only the 12+ have the Teflon-lined hose(s). I verified with PSC that there are no Teflon parts in the pump. That leaves the box as the only remaining possible source (the box does have at least one Teflon part). I've read the excellent threads on diy rebuilds of the box; I'm just going to have WTOR do mine, getting tired of wrenching for now been working on the jeep for about 5 months (they also mentioned that they do something "proprietary" when they rebuild/port. Should be good for ~20hp lol).

Ill have to cut into my old lines and have a look.

I was a bit ticked off to see my PS cooler had a fairly restricted opening on one of the hose ends. Looks like just a bit of sloppy manufacturing. I was running the Derale tube and fin cooler (similar to your trans cooler). I'm looking at a larger cooler now because, overkill...
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tanks, @rockystock ; those are good bits of info. Not redneck at all to run a bottle , heh. I just routed the overflow hose down thru that side fender sheet metal which would allow any that is pressured out to vacate the rig thru where Iíve trimmed the sheet metal and below the old Sahara logo spot, if that makes sense. I might get or make an overflow filter or just spend on the PSC trap.

You also suggest wrapping even the sides of the fluid reservoir,huh? I have more heat matting but the entire bottom is coated. I can use the cool tape on the sides. Iíll look at temps after running and determine, thank for heads up.

Speaking of ďheads-up ď ; you mentioned you found Teflon in your filter when you changed it ; I maybe am incorrect in thinking that the Teflon bits being heat deteriorated off the high-pressure hose or return line from factory was only applicable to 2012 and up jk Pentastarís ? You say the gearbox itself maybe lost some? I didnít think the 07-11s were susceptible to such ....

Yeah, it wasnít hard but it was tedious so I hope it pays off. Enjoy your HEMI ! Thatíd be a fun upgrade!

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Are you totally sure that both sides compressed (full axle compression) with the steering hard driver, that the ram mount on the tie rod doesn't crash into one of either the track bar or drag link? I bought the Synergy track bar and then immediately returned it because it was not even remotely close to fitting hydro on my setup. My tie rod clamp is a bit bigger being in double shear but it was way off from fitting. There are lots of things that are a little different here and there between our setups in small dimensional amounts but it was so vastly far off from any possibility of working I'd be confused if it worked for you. The ram mount just about touched the track bar at ride height with 6.5 inches of up travel to go. Just kept using OEM track bar since it's fine and works well.
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Originally Posted by christensent View Post
Are you totally sure that both sides compressed (full axle compression) with the steering hard driver, that the ram mount on the tie rod doesn't crash into one of either the track bar or drag link? I bought the Synergy track bar and then immediately returned it because it was not even remotely close to fitting hydro on my setup. My tie rod clamp is a bit bigger being in double shear but it was way off from fitting. There are lots of things that are a little different here and there between our setups in small dimensional amounts but it was so vastly far off from any possibility of working I'd be confused if it worked for you. The ram mount just about touched the track bar at ride height with 6.5 inches of up travel to go. Just kept using OEM track bar since it's fine and works well.
yeah, pretty sure. I still have 3rd stage ( wheeling level treatment , including side to side motion, jolting and shifting of body on axle as-occurs when offroading ) testing to validate and perform but , honestly , the ram from PSC - with the exception of its heim jamnut at the base where it affixes to the trackbar bracket- has nearly identical dimensions as the Fox ATS body and particularly the height and placement of the tierod clamp. That took lots of draglink tierodend adjustments to prevent from contacting the diff cover and tierod.in fact, tolerances were so close, I had to change from the G2 aluminum diff cover to the OX ( I coulda ground off cooling fins but why destroy a nice cover?) since the clamp did contact a portion of that diff cover. I clocked the draglink different and to enforce less forward play in the end joints. This after @PIG sggsted it , long ago on different thread about flop on jko. So, my Synergy DL doesn’t flop. I worked the clamp & optimized the position ;maybe this was made a tad bit easier since I also had no tierod flop ( I found and mentioned in other threads iirc, that I used Currie dustcaos on all of the Synergy linkages which helped almost completely eliminate all flopping )at all before this install? My adding the immovable Synergy misalignment caps and washer things really wasn’t that much of a difference when compared to my non-hydraulic asssted tierod setup.
I’m of opinion that if there is ANY flopping ,of either the draglink or the tierod , that that is where most contact between these steering linkages takes place or is permitted. If you take a gander - I acknowledge that in these pix it’s not too clearly visible- but I not only have the tierod clamp slightly clocked forward about 10-15 į but there is something else I’m using which allows some rotational forgiveness on the cylinder & which might make a difference; I use that Synergy ss relocation bracket , ya know? Well, the 5/8” bolts that PSC sends to affix it onto the weld on tabs did not fit the Synergy bracket’s 1/2” hole. I got a conversion , misaligning pair of spacers that reduce the bolt size & so I kept the grade8, fk bolt I had been using to connect that end. I notice it seems to permit a good deal more freedom for the ram to rotate on the heim so maybe that is helping, too?
Where on the trackbar did the clamp contact ? At full drivercturn it musta been at the bend for clearing the diff ? I have about 1/2” of clearance at that area of trackbar when compressed. I’ll test further and thanks for pointing out potential hotspot for me. It would seem odd that our results would be that different so maybe I have issues as yet unknown...knock on wood



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post #8 of 34 Old 08-01-2018, 08:58 PM
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Hey j3ff3ry,

That looks workable, and I'd be willing to bet you put utmost paranoia into the installation - congrats

As long as you don't clunkity-clank anywhere, the only two things I see that I would consider:

1) Maybe I'm just seeing your photos wrong, but it looks like that ram wants to flop the tie rod.

If so, and you can rotate the tie rod clamp rearward to put the ram more parallel to the TR, do so.


(I'm guessing you may not have room w/o smackametizing the diff. cover - then don't )



2) Spiral wrap or abrasion-resistant sleeving on the hydro. hoses would help me sleep better at night


Also, double-check your hose routing for any signs of rubbing. Otherwise,

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Originally Posted by ExWrench View Post
Hey j3ff3ry,

That looks workable, and I'd be willing to bet you put utmost paranoia into the installation - congrats

As long as you don't clunkity-clank anywhere, the only two things I see that I would consider:

1) Maybe I'm just seeing your photos wrong, but it looks like that ram wants to flop the tie rod.

If so, and you can rotate the tie rod clamp rearward to put the ram more parallel to the TR, do so.


(I'm guessing you may not have room w/o smackametizing the diff. cover - then don't )



2) Spiral wrap or abrasion-resistant sleeving on the hydro. hoses would help me sleep better at night


Also, double-check your hose routing for any signs of rubbing. Otherwise,
thanks, Bud.
Yes, I do have some space to roll the clamp back so Iíll give it a go. Thatís what @christensent & I were mulling over the contact area of. That is useful from both perspectives and I understand Iíve got to put this thru further tests to make sure all scenarios are covered.
You called it correctly ; I was paranoid enough to ď over cautious install ď this for 3 solid weekends, lol.

I admit that the biggest concern I had prior to these talks about the clamp clearance were the hoses rubbing or contacting the various parts up there around sector and pitman. It seems the driver hose to ram might get into that bushing for upper CA thatís part of the housing at full stuff. So, the wrapping is on itís way.

You guys are helping me immensely with these suggestions and concerns. I am much obliged & will update with my further testing results.




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post #10 of 34 Old 08-01-2018, 11:17 PM
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Where on the trackbar did the clamp contact ? At full drivercturn it musta been at the bend for clearing the diff ?
Yes, the synergy track bar bends forwards rather than many other brands as well as OEM bending more upwards over the top of the diff. The track bar's forward bend and drag link formed a roof that a clamp could not pass through no matter where it was placed. And the track bar bend was maybe 4" too low for the clamp to stay below. I'll bet I'd need 5" bump stop extension to have made it work.

It's possible we have enough things different that it somehow just works out for you. My frame side track bar bracket is dropped 1.25" making things worse for me but still, just not even remotely close and that wouldn't account for it entirely. Otherwise we're about the same. My tie rod is raised 1.5" with knuckles but then I'm at about 1.5-1.75" bump stop extension while you're only at 0.25" extension (which is remarkable for 37's... I don't see how you can have a truss with 0.25" bump stop extension based on my recent trussing adventure. Maybe I'm actually at way less effective bump stop extension than I think, everything that would allow me to measure is cut off and long gone so honestly I don't really know for sure).
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Yes, the synergy track bar bends forwards rather than many other brands as well as OEM bending more upwards over the top of the diff. The track bar's forward bend and drag link formed a roof that a clamp could not pass through no matter where it was placed. And the track bar bend was maybe 4" too low for the clamp to stay below. I'll bet I'd need 5" bump stop extension to have made it work.

It's possible we have enough things different that it somehow just works out for you. My frame side track bar bracket is dropped 1.25" making things worse for me but still, just not even remotely close and that wouldn't account for it entirely. Otherwise we're about the same. My tie rod is raised 1.5" with knuckles but then I'm at about 1.5-1.75" bump stop extension while you're only at 0.25" extension (which is remarkable for 37's... I don't see how you can have a truss with 0.25" bump stop extension based on my recent trussing adventure. Maybe I'm actually at way less effective bump stop extension than I think, everything that would allow me to measure is cut off and long gone so honestly I don't really know for sure).
ahhhh
Ok. Now, jeffery has misquoted or misinformed you all & @christensent caught it; I have about 1/4” left when full/compressed before steel cup within top of coil jounce holder meets the 2” polyurethane EVO ( I think) spacer. So, I suppose the proper way to say it would be that I am bumpstopped 2” up front or 2” plus whatever the stock bump thingy brings at full compression (2.25” I guess ) .i have those 2” Evo bumps in base on coilpad and in back those Synergy boxes that can flip on side for 3” or flat for 2” ....thus i , technically , must be bumpstopped at 2” rear and 2.25” front. Sorry. I meant ultimate measurement between steel cup and the lower immovable surface within coilspring and that is not the correct way of referencing that enforcing setup. Srry.

On subject of the Synergy TB I know of the “ roof” ( fabulous way to explain the gathering of metallic , gray bars at full stuff!) of which you speak.yeah, I also know it’s funky, proprietary bend to clear not just diffs but all the other components and particularly their trackbar frame bracket plus steering sector shaft brace AS-WELL-AS the diff.

I did a great little side by side comparison of the Synergy Mfg Trackbar shape as compared to another very good , adj , stout and well made trackbar in the Superlift hd adj trackbar .
I bought it a few years ago when it first came out for some ridiculously low price at intro sale for only about $90?! ... I did this because I wanted to or HAD to rebuild and improve the Synergy Trackbar while I was also daily driving the jeep. Remember ( look thru all my posts or better-yet , google jko for “ Synergy Trackbar upgrade to DDB “ I think ?)when we all were talking with @PIG or @AllJumpStyle about adding their new ( at time ) dual durometer bushing on frame side of the Synergy Trackbar ( Kent .. @kjeeper10 , was in the thread, too) ? It was several years ago but , I did that , as well as upgraded the prone-to-loosening Teflon heim at axle side of the Synergy Trackbar to a less wear susceptible FK Heim joint. ...so, long story NOT made shorter ( whew) , I bought that superlift TB to run for one week on road only. It was there that I caught just how precisely engineered the Synergy TB was since the Superlift one was awesome and almost as well engineered but one good look at it installed with the other Synergy bits I mentioned and it was appearent thst thst forward tilt and upward slope of the Synergy was vital to being able to stuff all the linkages upwards. The Superlift bar ( I still have in box , new, 1 week used on road and need to sell, btw) simply did it’s trackbar duty perfectly but there was no way it would let all the other parts stuff correctly nor clear the steering sector shaft brace or trackbar bracket. It wasn’t bent forward like the Synergy.
Here ,I’ll point-out that the term Synergy means not just “ a harmonic balance thru cooperative design resultant in a cohesive functionality or symbiosis of parts functioning as one together” but literally “ install one of them and you’d best run ‘em all for yo shit to work” , pardon my term, Chris or Dave, lol.
I’m a dweeby Synergy fanboy so I can say that about Syn...

I digress; so, yes; the synergy TB makes an odd yet designed intentionally ,nice parallel array between it and all your othe Synergy parts . I honestly have been able to get those fully compressed with this setup while running a Fox ATS , as-well-as a full size, mono shock from KING ( before they offered an actual stabilizer for JKs they had only their universal fit ...(it was way, way over kill and pushed the steering to driver side horribly until I let oil and nitro out) that was about same diameter as the PSC ram and both were affixed with the same approximate height/size tierod clamp.

@ExWrench , here I’ll reference what you asked about above ; the flop of tierod...look close at my full on image of my front clip and notice the Synergy / Poly Perf dustcaps are already installed. Push on the tierod al the Ram wants to roll you’re right , but the rod ain’t gonna have any vertical or rotational movement at all cuz of those metal prevention caps.

> I think I need to clock the clamp back about 7 į.

>I believe christensent has some additional mods - lowered trackbar bracket , changed other bits , that have yielded different platforms between our same Jeeps enough to make significant differences in this comparison

> I can’t explain it adequately but there is a significant amount of additional cylinder body “roll” or flexibility of the whole PSC ram brought-about thru the use of the misalignment spacers I mentioned at axleside. By reducing the bolt at axle side for the steering ram , all the tierod movement & potential rotation Ex is mentioning seems to be diverted to that heim and cylinder body. The tierod is enforced to not be able to rotate from force of the ram , even tho it absolutely looks like it wants to flop. But those axleside cylinder mounting spacers combined with the tierod roll flop mitigating dustcaps instead divert that force to then travel thru and rotate the RAM itself. Not enough to damage but adequate to clear other linkages, if that makes sense.

I know, this is too long.

Here an idea:
Once I am back home in Nashville - I’m in Houston for work - I’ll go video it all working and we can see instead of try to verbally detail this complex, funky shit , as Doc14 would say , so then we can assess it all together.

I honestly think it’s all going to work like it is. However, it’ll need a few tweaks and adjustments.

Have good day guys...I’m gonna go to my clients site and gotta get ready.
Now my thumbs are tired !

I love jkowners.
Few groups on earth would understand stuff that is this specific & involved , heh.






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post #12 of 34 Old 08-02-2018, 08:26 PM
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<TRULY IMPRESSIVE WALL OF TEXT>

<TRULY IMPRESSIVE WALL OF TEXT>

<TRULY IMPRESSIVE WALL OF TEXT>

<TRULY IMPRESSIVE WALL OF TEXT>
LIKE, HOLY SHIT, DUDE, MAYBE . . . DECAF


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Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post
@ExWrench , here Iíll reference what you asked about above ; the flop of tierod...look close at my full on image of my front clip and notice the Synergy / Poly Perf dustcaps are already installed. Push on the tierod al the Ram wants to roll youíre right , but the rod ainít gonna have any vertical or rotational movement at all cuz of those metal prevention caps.

> I think I need to clock the clamp back about 7 į.
I have the same unfloppity TRE boots, but I had zero flop without them because I was able to get the TR and ram ~dead-nuts parallel.
If you have room to do it, you'll probably be as geeked about the parallelism as I am


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<FAR LESS IMPRESSIVE WALL OF TEXT>


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post #13 of 34 Old 08-03-2018, 03:06 AM Thread Starter
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I kno of this geekdome- excitement of which you speak , oh wise one.

im workin on the JKO annual WOTPOTY* award, heh.
Some day I’ll win that shit if I keeps on typin ...


(*Wall Of Text Post Of The Year)






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post #14 of 34 Old 08-05-2018, 12:44 PM Thread Starter
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update

this threads replies has me more concerned over this compression driver/compression passenger turning-fully to either side clearances.
It only appears to be maybe 1/3 of what my suspension can compress-to fully, but here are a few images I took with the endlinks off and using teeny tiny ramps for service-work.

My wife would not allow me to drive it up the front steps of the house ; I reminded her this was Tennessee & it probably would be seen as a compliment or "fancy" but she just glared at me when I said that.

*Sigh*


So, here is the little teeny bit of testing IO could do with it turned and compressed a little bit in both directions.
I notice there is a teeny bit of contact from the actual trackbar bolt but will have to go get on a big rock to really find out how she'll work.

it looks JUST the same as the prior FOX ATS I had on it but I see what @christensent means about the TB and Draglink possibly making a little canopy over the clamp bolt. Anyway, if you wanna see them all go here ( the ones nearest the bottom are the new ones): https://imgur.com/a/AXmMXtt
here are a few of them:

steering turned all the way to driver & on flat ground:


wheels turned all the way to pssgr from underneath looking up:



I'm not boasting but it truly is laughable for me to call this 'compressed' ; my wheels/tires can jam up in-there far-enough to rip the fender-liners out and tear rock lights off of their wires there is such little tolerance remaining when fully stuffed ( the Jeep is well-bump- stopped beyond that point, tho'.... )


anyway ; here is the jeep w/ its swaybars disco'ed and w/ approx. 30% of it's potential upstroke in effect on a little car ramp :


here is a shot from overhead & thru engine bay with wheels turned full driver :





I think with exception of the need for some wrap for me hoses &maybe a bit of contact from the ram body with trackbar bolt head, this might just work.

I will next update after I can get her onto some rocks to test.






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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExWrench View Post
Hey j3ff3ry,

That looks workable, and I'd be willing to bet you put utmost paranoia into the installation - congrats

As long as you don't clunkity-clank anywhere, the only two things I see that I would consider:

1) Maybe I'm just seeing your photos wrong, but it looks like that ram wants to flop the tie rod.

If so, and you can rotate the tie rod clamp rearward to put the ram more parallel to the TR, do so.


(I'm guessing you may not have room w/o smackametizing the diff. cover - then don't )



2) Spiral wrap or abrasion-resistant sleeving on the hydro. hoses would help me sleep better at night


Also, double-check your hose routing for any signs of rubbing. Otherwise,
i cant wait for the wrap I got like yours for my hydraulic fluid hoses to arrive. I got it for about $16 for 6' at McMaster Carr. so I got 12' . It doesn't come with the electric tape like that stuff you guys used - Tite-Seal hydraulic hose protectant, iirc? - but is the same wrap. I definitely need that protection.



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post #16 of 34 Old 08-05-2018, 08:47 PM
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I bought 100' of Ancor Marine 1/2" spiral wrap almost 5 years ago.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...04/?th=1&psc=1

. . . still have about 15-20' left now, almost due to restock
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post #17 of 34 Old 08-05-2018, 10:12 PM
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Regarding using a ramp to check, you really need both sides simultaneously compressed. As in physically remove the springs and set the jeep down on the bump stops. Anything less than that test is a risk on highspeed impacts, landing jumps, etc. that might fully compress both sides unless you're visually 100% sure it's clear.

As you brought up earlier if you're actually 2" bump stop extended, that could account for our difference. Since I'm 1.5" bump stop extension, 1.5" tie rod raise, and 1.25" track bar frame drop, you have 3.25" more clearance than I do at full compression.

Quote:
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&maybe a bit of contact from the ram body with trackbar bolt head, this might just work.
I hope you're planning to fix that? That will instantly bend the shaft if you have any side contact pushing perpendicular to the ram.


Just don't under-estimate how careful you need to be installing hydro if you really cycle your suspension on the trail. I did hose routing two times, re-welding tabs in different places three times, and one bent ram from contacting a link before I actually got it dialed in (obviously, I was a noob back then and the first install I didn't really even cycle anything, second install I did some lazy cycling with a ramp, and third mount I actually spend a whole weekend cycling the suspension to tuck everything perfectly). It's crazy tight in there for a hydro assist install on a JK and it's not trivial to get everything perfectly setup.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christensent View Post
Regarding using a ramp to check, you really need both sides simultaneously compressed. As in physically remove the springs and set the jeep down on the bump stops. Anything less than that test is a risk on highspeed impacts, landing jumps, etc. that might fully compress both sides unless you're visually 100% sure it's clear.

As you brought up earlier if you're actually 2" bump stop extended, that could account for our difference. Since I'm 1.5" bump stop extension, 1.5" tie rod raise, and 1.25" track bar frame drop, you have 3.25" more clearance than I do at full compression.



I hope you're planning to fix that? That will instantly bend the shaft if you have any side contact pushing perpendicular to the ram.


Just don't under-estimate how careful you need to be installing hydro if you really cycle your suspension on the trail. I did hose routing two times, re-welding tabs in different places three times, and one bent ram from contacting a link before I actually got it dialed in (obviously, I was a noob back then and the first install I didn't really even cycle anything, second install I did some lazy cycling with a ramp, and third mount I actually spend a whole weekend cycling the suspension to tuck everything perfectly). It's crazy tight in there for a hydro assist install on a JK and it's not trivial to get everything perfectly setup.




*sigh*

g-dammit.

OK.

It utterly sucks having to do that but I 100% know you’re correct.

I dunno how the heck I’d ever compress both sides at once all the way to bumpstop cups but your advise/recommendation comes from exp & is properly suggested.

I swear this sounds like sacrilege but if I ever have to do this again, I actually think I’d pay someone or a shop ( AllSouth or WOD ) to set it up.


Thanks, man .

I mentioned I know the ramps are just a tickle test . But I don’t wanna be out on some trail and hsve the deeper seated contact yet discovered in driveway result in crushing or bending or shearing anything.


Oh, I didn’t mean to imply perpendicular force is exerted on ram body by tb bolt head; even the former Fox ATS dampener had a gouge right at its edge from kissing the body ...the cylinder body rolls on the heim and clears it. Literally a mm or less of slight contact at extreme full turn.

Thanks.

I’ll pull the damned coils.

So, pull them with frame on stands then use jack to compress the front all the way.
There is no way w/out a lift that I can check the droop clearance.

Ugh.


( ystrdy I spent half of day cleaning just 25% of the Cherokee ; the local redneck, idiotic DOT morons allowed me to drive thru 1/2 a mile of 3 min old road cover tack ( tar oil) in my XJ a few weeks back. The rear fenders and entire sides are coated in what feels like 1/4” of Line-X or rhino liner but it’s tar ....dried.

Only gallons of WD-40 and elbow grease are able to remove it ....about 1square foot per hour.

It’s a nightmare. From 12 noon until 6pm is how long it took me to get all you can see from the rear door of the back driver-side to the rear driver-side bumper cleaned ...just that side. . )


After a Sunday full of that in 80% humidity at 95 į F, the last thing I wanna hear the next morning is “ you’ll need to go out and work on a jeep” ,


I very much appreciate the advice and will perform the coilless compression check.






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Last edited by j3ff3ry_j33p; 08-06-2018 at 05:09 AM.
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oh.

I just laughed about 10 min after replying at your comment, ď during high speed impactsĒ ....
I donít think anything on my JKU has experienced a single thing which could be considered Ď high speedí or Ď landing jumpsí ....i know wht was meant but that just made me chuckle .

Have a good Monday, all.




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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post


It utterly sucks having to do that but I 100% know you’re correct.

I dunno how the heck I’d ever compress both sides at once all the way to bumpstop cups but your advise/recommendation comes from exp & is properly suggested.


It's worth doing even without being suspicious of hydro assist. Lots of people don't check on this. Spend half an hour down there when it's compressed checking absolutely everything at all steering angles. You may find other issues such as track bar hitting sector shaft (I lost a steering box to that before I checked on these things), drive shaft hitting things on up travel, truss hitting oil pan (a common catastrophic one), etc.

Even if you don't plan on it, it can happen. I saw someone get all 4 in the air on a crawling trail day once, just didn't see a little rise after a stream bed on a smooth exit road that we were cruising on.

Quote:
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There is no way w/out a lift that I can check the droop clearance.

Droop is much easier than compression. Just jack up the frame a bit, remove the tires, and let the axle down until you're at limit strap/shock extension. Fortunately with hydro assist it's basically impossible to have clearance issues at extension, but the thing you do want to check is that the hoses don't over-extend, pull on other hoses on the way down, etc.
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post #21 of 34 Old 08-06-2018, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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i've cycled it multiple times in the past. Last time was when I installed the Synergy Mfg adj CAs a few winters back.

I understand the importance; still a pita but nothin I havent done before.



i'll post photos ....









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post #22 of 34 Old 08-07-2018, 04:07 PM
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Looks good! Just to add, we have ran all of our steering components with hydro assist on many 3" lifts without issue. It does take some finesse and fine tuning to make sure everything clears at droop, bump, and articulated, lock to lock. With 37's and high fenders you really should be running 3" of bump stop spacer to get everything to play nicely together. With the right shock lengths you should not be losing any wheel travel and will stop rubbing on everything. As you can see, when adding components like hydro assist, the available space quickly becomes very tight. This will also allow you to do high steer if you desire. We have lots of pictures of our white 2012 JK with this setup if you are interested. It has aftermarket knuckles as well.

Introducing other things to the equation like drop track bar brackets will always present new issues. I'm curious why a 1.25" track bar drop is necessary at such a small lift height @christensent ? Has the drag link mounting position been changed as well? As long as the time has been taken to cycle the suspension and get the steering components oriented, there should be room for everything. One of the big things we always notice is the bend in the drag link is often pointed down and not forward. This causes it to run into things at full steering lock and takes away any room between it and other components for things like hydro assist. So, make sure the bends in the drag link (and tie rod), are pointed forward and not down. Our current drag link now includes a single plane tie rod end on the pitman arm side to help install it in the correct orientation, but it can be done with a normal tie rod end as well.

As always, if anyone has questions, I'm here to answer them.

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post #23 of 34 Old 08-08-2018, 05:18 AM Thread Starter
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thanks , Chris ( @AllJumpStyle )
Your input is always welcome & helpful.
I learned some tricks long ago about getting your Draglink and tierod to point frwrd ; the draglink cant be understated in this context as itís the contact culprit .
I have been running ( brace for the sacrilege!) Currie dustcaps for years ( b4 yíall changed the design) & those together w/ clocking the TREs in a slight misalign will get rid of the play.

Yeah, Iíve spent so much time lookin at the white & older silver Synergy JKs i probably know them almost as well as my own. Iíll go back & check some of the pix of its front clip.

I dunno how much the factory front jounce bumpstop provide ( weird, Iíve never learned ) but with those + the 2Ē EVO bumpstop sin each Synergy 3Ē coil, Iím probably 2.25Ē-3Ē of bump.

As @christensent says, I gotta take the springs off and smoosh it up. Testing is vital.
I also wanna add a small gusset behind the encapsulating box on your SS relo bracket , just as insurance. I also ordered a grade9 1/2-20 , 2.75Ē hexhead for use in said attachment to axle side .






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post #24 of 34 Old 08-09-2018, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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it sucks so f*cking much to wrap that 'neoprene-backed-neoprene' hose-wrap stuff around the hoses while they are attached I can barely speak about it. I do not think a 6' roll of extremely gooey , almost superglue like adhesive should attempt to be crammed around small spaces such as exist here.

nah.
I haven't fully finished testing them ;just wrapped & strapped the contact-points thought I'd photo document tis thrilling task.




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post #25 of 34 Old 08-09-2018, 07:39 PM
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I have a 2 1/2 inch lift. I stood under my jeep scratching my head for a week trying to figure out how to make this work. Then it took another week to actually get it to work. You do have to pull the coils to really check full stuff at both steering locks. Imagining descending a rock ledge where the front end drops off and you have the steering turned. When you land itís gonna compress fully. No way to cheat gravity and the full weight of the jeep coming down on its nose. I too used the synergy tierod and track bar. I had to switch to the yeti tierod because of the tendency of the tierod to roll even though my cylinder pushes perfectly parallel. I also had to shorten my radiator hose because the bolt on the rod end of the clamp pushed up into it at full stuff. I cut a section out of it and spliced with pipe. Looking at where your cylinder mounts, I think itís going to tear off unless you put some gussets on it. It looks like it is just 1/4Ē strap at 90 degrees. There is tons of stress into that mount.
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