Shudder from takeoff - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
 
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post #1 of 20 Old 05-28-2018, 07:35 PM Thread Starter
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Shudder from takeoff

First post here. Also my first Jeep. I have a 2010 JKU Automatic with G2 44s, 5.38s, Detroit in rear, air locker front. 40x13.50r17. I've always wanted a jeep. I'm slowly learning about it and I would appreciate any help with this current issue. When the Jeep is warmed up it has a very hard shudder only on takeoff, it also feels like something is holding it back, like Im dragging something heavy. It does not do it when the vehicle is cold. I believe it is transmission related. It shifts through gears just fine just shudders hard on takeoff. Any help is greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 20 Old 05-28-2018, 07:53 PM
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I had that problem with my 2008. Oddly, same gears, but it started before the gears.

Wound up having to replace the transmission. You might get lucky & get in front of it with a fluid/filter change. Or you might not.

Or, you could get real lucky and it's just a brake caliper locked up. I've had that happen several times.
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post #3 of 20 Old 05-28-2018, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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I plan on dropping the pan and changing the filter and replacing whatever fluid comes out with the pan drop.
Last week I installed 2 transmission coolers in series on the trans fluid return line. I thought the transmission may have been getting to hot turning over 40s. It still does it though. I wonder why it's only when warmed up?
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post #4 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 04:04 AM
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i assume the shudder was present prior to your adding the additional coolers but , regardless, you did compensate for the added volume brought about by the extra line length and cooler capacity & add the appropriate amount of Mopar ATF+4 to the transmission , yes? The 42RLE is very persnickety about correct fluid and levels . You add an aux cooler , you add volume , upping the total fluid capacity. Just checking.


( edit: I hope it isn’t the issue butvwhat you report does sound like a clutch pack slipping for first . )

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post #5 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
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I did add fluid for the increase in volume. Sounds like I will need a new transmission soon. I may just drive it until it gets worse. If I go slowly from a standstill it won't shudder but it feels as if I'm towing a bus. If I go normal it shudders and shakes horribly. Feels like the Jeep is coming apart. I never thought slippage would feel so violent.
I've found a few remans online for about $2000. Plus I asked my local trans shop the cost for install if I brought him a trans. He said $750 to install. Do those prices seem reasonable? Should I price a rebuild?
How long could this thing last? I'd love to take the family to the beach and drive in the sand. That would probably kill this thing.
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post #6 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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Another question. I hope I'm explaining things well. I'm just confused about slippage. My understanding about slipping was when throttle is applied the engine would rev but the vehicle would not move forward equal to the throttle given. My Jeep is not doing this. It seems as if it's bogging down on takeoff. Like starting off in a manual in second gear. I thought at first it wasnt shifting to first but it is yet shudders. When put in neutral the engine will rev freely. Well sorta. If I select neutral while it's shuddering with throttle still applied the engine sputters like a rev limiter then clears itself. If I select neutral any other time it revs freely.
Sorry for all the long posts. I'm new to jeeps and have limited mechanic knowledge. I am learning fast though
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post #7 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 02:37 PM
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so, this isnt about me, but I want to ask a question so to ask proper you need a brief context; I have driven my '11 3.8 auto ( same basically as yours) to 95k miles. The entire 95,000 miles I have shifted from "1" to "2" then "D" when driving, even when it had the stock gears. I have it where I shift right-on the best RPM, or better than the computer automatic shifting can do . even when it was stock & 4.11 gearing I thought the 42RLE shift points programmed were not correct*. So I have manually shifted it this whole time.


like others, I think Im attuned to the idiosyncrasies of this engine and tranny pretty darn well.

Now, I can ask my question in context;
have you tried driving in the manner I mention that I do , for testing this ? Try shifting at around 4000 RPM from starting-out in the lowest gear, "1" on your auto selector. When you hit 4000rpm if it reaches it , slide it into "2'. What occurs when you do this?
Does it still feel like resistance? Continue testing by not changing gears for 50 yards but gradual acceleration in "1" only. This to see if it continues to have the "drag" sensation you mentioned.

I wonder if it is a bad torque converter, maybe.

So, I would want to see what it did if I left it no choice but to maintain first gear.....







(* edit:if anyone catches this, fwiw,the 2011 is the only model year JK with 3.8l and 42RLE that a SuperChips flashwank cannot program shift-points, so I cannot adjust them )









2nd edit: OP, have you also just for the heck of it, wait...do you have jack stands? I was gonna ask if, for the sake of diagnosis, you had jacked the rear end-up on stands and run thru it in gear with tires up off ground and secured so -as to see what the driveline behavior is like. As-in, I do not have some brake caliper seized or some other driveline mechanical drag inducer causing this....if not, I would do that, too, fwiw


one of the basics of tranny or driveline issue troubleshooting is to stick it in first gear and hard-down on the brake+ no e-brake. Slow power-on with brake fully pressed in to resist and see if anything slips or grunts or blows-up, you follow....


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Last edited by j3ff3ry_j33p; 05-29-2018 at 02:50 PM.
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post #8 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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If I select first gear and takeoff from a standstill, I still get the hard shudder and dragging feeling. I've confirmed it was indeed in first gear by shifting up and letting it go through all gears.
I don't currently have jack stands. I am able to push the Jeep in neutral, running and not. Also the vehicle will idle forward when you let off the brake. Does that rule out sticking brakes?
The thing that is bugging me is it only does it when warm. When it's not warmed up it doesn't do it. Also if left to sit for just 30 minutes it doesn't do it for 5 minutes or so. Is there a trans temp warning light on these things. I've yet to see one. I have 2 aux trans coolers in series on the fluid return. I don't think it's getting too hot.
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post #9 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 07:35 PM
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How are you checking your fluid level on the tranny?

In park at operating temp slowly move thru all gears on the range selector from park all the way to first and back, then put it back in park and check the fluid fill level? it kinda sound as if the fluid level is too low I know you added to compensate for the added coolers but how was the level prior to starting the project with the coolers?
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post #10 of 20 Old 05-29-2018, 09:56 PM
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Your over thinking your issue. Hot doesn't mean your trans is over heating and causing the issue. Hot is operating temperature. 90 percent of trans issues appear at operating temperature. From what you are describing it sounds like a forward drum issue. Keep driving it and you'll be sitting on the side of the road not moving at all. Now as for price, that transmission is 2500 to 3000 to replace. That's everything out the door. The problem with buying your own transmission and having someone install it for you is if the trans screws up your paying to have it pulled and replaced again.

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post #11 of 20 Old 05-30-2018, 04:16 AM
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i tend to be agreeingvwith both of the above comments. @Tspevacek brings a good point & @Rb6700 brings further usefulness in that it sounds as if you’re not getting TC locking clutch within the TC and that is many times due to too low a level of the viscous fluid. No, if you can push it and it operates some, until warm, it might eliminate the brake possibility. Don’t overthink the heat issue. The only warning indicator is to alert you to pull over so it doesn’t belch forth and onto your hot crossover pipe and start a fire. Nothing to monitor temp unless you have an app and a Bluetooth android ( torquePro) or an older or newer programmer if it can monitor the PID of the transmission fluid. But we have a perfectly acceptable temp / level measurement tool free included w th3 jeep, the transmission dipstick.


for this you gotta be spot on accurate as you can with verification of the atf+4 level. Follow the above recommendation . The temp coincides with the holes on your trans dipstick . So does operating level. There is a very specific procedure to check this and if you veer from it , you will not get accurate data back. I think youve driven her with too low fluid level or level is too low . As to if damage has ensued to the forward drum of lockup clutch or whatever , you can only arrive at that point if you know the operation temp fluid levels are where they need to be.

You’re right, most autos are damaged by heat, but don’t assume that the case until you know you’re running it properly . Then plan on the replacement.

Did this issue start before you added two aux coolers or after?

I wouldn’t drive that until you determine these facts as you will just be stranded someplace hot , on side of road ( if you can pull over ) instead of blocking traffic , stuck in who knows where . I would not subject my family to that.

You can get trannies rebuilt or companies like ATS and Western Transmission out in Cali are resources you can then look into . Used 42rles are pretty easily sourced. Cheaply is another matter.

Be certain your fluid levels are correct.

Then recheck.

fwiw , @Tspevacek implies checking dipstick with that process while parked and running, btw.




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Last edited by j3ff3ry_j33p; 05-30-2018 at 04:22 AM.
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post #12 of 20 Old 05-30-2018, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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The problem was there even before the trans coolers. I checked my fluid as stated above. The level is right in the middle of the 2 hot holes. Is that level okay?Thanks for all the info guys. This is great. Glad I joined the forum.
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post #13 of 20 Old 05-30-2018, 09:42 AM
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That sounds as-tho you successfully checked the fluid level and it is where it should be.


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post #14 of 20 Old 05-30-2018, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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The Jeep is very unhappy today. Turned off the main road heading over to a friends house and there is a hill as soon as you turn, only about 50ft then levels off. Jeep shuddered like crazy, just wouldn't build rpms. Barely made the hill. I want to pull the trigger and get a new transmission but I'm hoping this is my problem and it's not something else. My buddy says he will help me install trans to save some money. I'd hate to buy a trans and put it in, and it not be the issue.
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post #15 of 20 Old 05-30-2018, 04:26 PM
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have you/did you ever drop the pan and if so , you didn't see any funkiness within it, right? I have heard of the TC clutch material getting into/ contaminating the stator filter ...you did not see any funky chunky monkey crud in the pan did you?


I am by no means an automatic ( or manual) transmission expert but from just basic comprehension of the way the TC in auto's function, it sounds like the stator one-way clutch within it is not locking-up to multiply the output torque so that when you take off it actually does 'take off'. To me that sounds like a torque convertor issue.



you have no CEL or other indicator warning lights? Not that it will do much good as far as fixing issue, but have you pulled diagnostic codes at all?








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post #16 of 20 Old 05-30-2018, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
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I haven't dropped the pan yet. It's been raining for what seems like forever here. I don't have a garage. I'm getting no cel at all. I have a basic code reader that I plugged in and it shows nothing. I may take it to the shop and let them diagnose it. I was hoping for something simple. Sucks I just bought this jeep not long ago. Oh well. I've owned many vehicles in my life and this is the first to give me problems soon after purchase. I guess I can't complain. I got a good enough deal on it.
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post #17 of 20 Old 05-31-2018, 04:47 AM
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id drop pan, replace filter and some fluid while in it then have to have someone qualified diagnose it.
I’d probably call these guys , if for nothing else to see if I could glean anything useful from thier experience ...here is the product page for their TC, fwiw...

ATS | Single Disk, HD Torque Converter, 2003-2012 Jeep 42RLE*

good luck and keep us posted.

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Last edited by j3ff3ry_j33p; 05-31-2018 at 04:48 AM. Reason: grammar
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post #18 of 20 Old 05-31-2018, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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Dropped it off at the shop this morning. I will post when I get an answer back from them. Fingers crossed its something simple. If it's the transmission I'm gonna probably have them install a reman. That way I get a warranty.
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post #19 of 20 Old 06-01-2018, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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Haven't gotten an answer yet. My mechanic said he looked at it for a bit today and he is not convinced yet that it's the transmission. He is gonna get back on it next week. He said it may be the transfer case. He is not sure yet.

What could it be in the tcase that is causing this dragging feeling and crazy shudder I'm getting on takeoff?

Just thought I'd give an update and pick your brains on tcase problems..... He did say it may not be that but I like to have some knowledge in case it is.
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post #20 of 20 Old 06-17-2018, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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Update. Mechanic cannot figure it out...he said he checked several things. I brought the Jeep home and am just gonna drive it. If I accelerate from standstill easily it will not shudder. I'm gonna just take it easy on it and see how long it lasts..I'm convinced it's the transmission. Maybe my mechanic was weary about replacing the trans and it not solving the issue.

Soon I will drop the pan and change filter.
Beyond that I'm just gonna baby it. Sorry no solid diagnosis on this issue.
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