Been thinking tons and 40ís - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 205 Old 04-19-2018, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
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Been thinking tons and 40ís

Iíve been running 37ís for a few years now on stock axles. So far itís been holding up pretty good minus bending flange on rear axle and then exploding a ujoint on factory front axle shaft this past EJS (Pritchett Canyon). Mine is a 2013 JKUR with 5.13 gears.
Anyway Iím thinking of jumping to 40ís and UD60ís. I like my Walker Evans Beadlocks and would like them again in 8-lug. Anyone know if these wheels in 17x8.5 and 3-3/4Ē BS would work with UD60ís and 40x13.5r17 tires?
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post #2 of 205 Old 04-19-2018, 07:39 AM
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Dont do it. Stick with the current set up. I had 37s, built 44s and Walkers and went to tons and 40s. I dont think the cost benefit is there...

But to answer your question, yes those Walkers will work with the setup you are after.
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post #3 of 205 Old 04-19-2018, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
Dont do it. Stick with the current set up. I had 37s, built 44s and Walkers and went to tons and 40s. I dont think the cost benefit is there...

But to answer your question, yes those Walkers will work with the setup you are after.
@ALASHA Please expound on this a little, I am on 37's on stock axles as well (D30 Front and D44 rear) and planning to go to D60's front and rear. I am currently running 4.88's with 1350 DS front and rear and have an Aussie locker up front. I am easy on the throttle (at least I think I am) so what I have has worked or held together so far (one year on this setup now), but I know it won't last forever, trying to get all I can out of it before I make the jump and spend the extra bucks, basically.

I don't plan on going to 40's, just want the beefier axles so that I have less worry (in that particular area). You said you were on built 44's so not exactly the same comparison, but what part are you recommending he not do? The upgrade to D60's or the upgrade to 40's, or not do any of it?

And sorry if I am hijacking this thread, not my intent. I just have lots of questions about this upgrade (along with coilovers) and so trying to get as much feedback as I can.
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post #4 of 205 Old 04-19-2018, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Texas_Jester View Post
@ALASHA Please expound on this a little, I am on 37's on stock axles as well (D30 Front and D44 rear) and planning to go to D60's front and rear. I am currently running 4.88's with 1350 DS front and rear and have an Aussie locker up front. I am easy on the throttle (at least I think I am) so what I have has worked or held together so far (one year on this setup now), but I know it won't last forever, trying to get all I can out of it before I make the jump and spend the extra bucks, basically.

I don't plan on going to 40's, just want the beefier axles so that I have less worry (in that particular area). You said you were on built 44's so not exactly the same comparison, but what part are you recommending he not do? The upgrade to D60's or the upgrade to 40's, or not do any of it?

And sorry if I am hijacking this thread, not my intent. I just have lots of questions about this upgrade (along with coilovers) and so trying to get as much feedback as I can.
All of it.

My JK started as a rubi so front and rear 44s with e lockers and I sleeved and c gusseted the front running Walkers and 37s MTRs. I wheeled the snot out of the thing. Prichett, Behind the Rocks, Upper Heldorado and a bunch of other trails in BFE, Carnage Canyon in CO etc... The only time I had an issue with my axles is when I slid sideways into a curb going to work on a snowy day. Needed to replace a unit bearing and rear shaft.

Got the point where it was time to get a new set of tires. I should have just gotten another set of 37s but scored a ridiculous deal on a set of used 40" Trail Grapplers. Put those on and immediately didnt feel comfortable with 40s on the 44s. The brakes werent up the task, I was rubbing at full lock and the added ~40 pounds per corner just didnt sit well in my head so I ordered a set of UD60s.

I personally made a lot of decisions that people on here probably would have suggested against and maybe that is in part to blame with my reduced joy factor. I always have been in the LCG camp and with 2.5" long arms, everything worked flawlessly on 37s. On 40s, Im still not as dialed in (havent been as focused on this as I used to be). I also wheel in CO where trails can get pretty tight so I went with 4.5 BS wheels which with the 68" wide UD60s cause additional clearance issues. I also went with 4.88 gear thinking I might LS swap someday.

Regardless of the personal decisions, the 60s and 40s havent gotten me onto a trail that I wouldnt have tried on the old set up. The added weight of the new set up is most definitely noticeable which is probably my biggest peave and the cost just isnt worth it. Maybe I was fortunate or that I drive carefully but I never broke on the trail. Sure things like ball joints and brakes wear out but think of how may times you could replace those before you spend as much as you would on the 60s.

At the end of the day, its a JK so unless you are prepared to run trails that all but guarantee body damage (buggy only trails), you will spend quite a bit of money for marginal returns unless the peace of mind is worth that much to you.

Just my 1 cent though (not even worth a full 2)


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post #5 of 205 Old 04-19-2018, 09:08 AM
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Have to agee and question the return on investment. I have run 40's on my Rubi for years on D44's (trussed, C's, G2 axles) with no issues and wheel quite often. Of course it all depends on how you wheel and where you wheel. I run the more advanced Black and Double Black Diamond trails here in the North West but wheel in a very controlled manner and am not afraid to winch over using the skinny pedal. The only reason I went to a D60 rear is because of the 6.0l v8 I dropped in started shredding ring and pinions (on the street LOL)

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post #6 of 205 Old 04-19-2018, 09:08 AM
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I agree with ALASHA. unless you just have an extra $20k just laying around to blow and don't drive it much then make the jump to 40's hell, go 42". Trails become too easy unless you run with buggies, driving around town sucks because your visibility is poor, parking sucks because lots are tight and the width you need to run 40's kills your turning radius and you bare fit in the spot after making a 3 point turn. Its a pleasure to drive around in my stock tj compared to the JK on 40's. Your used parts are not worth as much as you think either if you are counting pennies and are using salvaged parts to pay for the new stuff. The added weight absolutely sucks and totally kills the power on the highway if you have any hills at all. I might drop down to a 38" or 39" tires on my next set, even considered 37's just for some better clearance on the up side for going fast.
An axle swapped jeep on 40's is a hard sell if you ever want to get rid of it and you will get killed on what you get for it.

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post #7 of 205 Old 04-19-2018, 09:56 AM Thread Starter
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All good points. Iím easy on the skinny pedal and prefer finesse. Itís not a daily driver (2013 with 24k miles). Iím running short arms and have modified shock locations to get as much usable travel as I can with the shocks Iím running. Again Iíve only bent one stock rear axle flange and just recently a factory front unjoint. I have an Adamís front driveshaft and still running factory rear but ripped boot so that will get replace but would prefer to do that once so I better decide if Iím going 1tons. Iím running BFG MTís so theyíre on the small side, I could just get a true 37 or even thought about jumping to a 39Ē BFG.

I guess Iím just worried about my stock axles being what hold me back from doing tougher trails. Pritchett was probably the hardest Iíve done and did all the obstacles without a winch until I broke ujoint on Son of Rockpile but even rigs with 40ís and more had to be winched that day. I live close to KOH and want to wheel there but afraid to do with stick axles.

I could definitely see not being happy with 40ís and 4.88ís, Iím on 5.13 now and would do 5.38 with 40ís.

I know another expense would be hydro steering being Iím just using the Fox stabilizer.


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post #8 of 205 Old 04-19-2018, 10:32 AM
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If 37s aren't the problem and it's more just the axles you worry about, why not just put a pro rock or similar in the front and chromo and/or 35 spline shafts, or full float kit in the rear?

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post #9 of 205 Old 04-19-2018, 11:04 AM
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Well... I don't think that 60s and 40s are a great idea for a daily driver, and I don't ever recommend people go that route for a long commute. But there are lots of guys doing it anyway.

I built my Jeep with UD60s and 40s because it was what I wanted to do. It has been nice to go to Moab and have the peace of mind that I'm not likely to break something unless I'm being overly foolish. However, that thing is a tank when it comes to the two track trips back to town... I would enjoy Moab MUCH more in a nicely appointed Jeep on 37s with some boogie-able suspension under it. But I wheel Moab once a year and the wheeling I do at home is slow, calculated, buggy line, rock crawling with a bunch of buddies that have cut up TJs or buggies on 42s and 43s. The Jeep does great here and is an absolute pleasure to look at on the trailer in the rear view mirror of my Ram 2500. LOL I run some very technical trails and haven't done any body damage at all to my Jeep.

The UD60s have held up wonderfully and I haven't had any issues whatsoever with them. I am running a 40" competition compound Trepador with 3.5" back spaced Trail Ready beadlocks and I beefed up the front track bar bracket for my PSC hydro assist. I'm running Synergy steering and a Rock Krawler three link long arm with coil overs on the front. They are a great axle option for the price and should suit your needs nicely if you decide to go this route.
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post #10 of 205 Old 04-19-2018, 11:51 AM
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All good points. Iím easy on the skinny pedal and prefer finesse. Itís not a daily driver (2013 with 24k miles). Iím running short arms and have modified shock locations to get as much usable travel as I can with the shocks Iím running. Again Iíve only bent one stock rear axle flange and just recently a factory front unjoint. I have an Adamís front driveshaft and still running factory rear but ripped boot so that will get replace but would prefer to do that once so I better decide if Iím going 1tons. Iím running BFG MTís so theyíre on the small side, I could just get a true 37 or even thought about jumping to a 39Ē BFG.

I guess Iím just worried about my stock axles being what hold me back from doing tougher trails. Pritchett was probably the hardest Iíve done and did all the obstacles without a winch until I broke ujoint on Son of Rockpile but even rigs with 40ís and more had to be winched that day. I live close to KOH and want to wheel there but afraid to do with stick axles.

I could definitely see not being happy with 40ís and 4.88ís, Iím on 5.13 now and would do 5.38 with 40ís.

I know another expense would be hydro steering being Iím just using the Fox stabilizer.


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I would rather have 4.88 with 40's... I ran 5.38 in the D44 with 40's and the D44 pinion gear is really small. The 4.88 is a lot larger and stronger not to mention the rpm range with the 5.38 just seemed way too high. (my 2 cents)

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post #11 of 205 Old 04-19-2018, 11:55 AM
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I would rather have 4.88 with 40's... I ran 5.38 in the D44 with 40's and the D44 pinion gear is really small. The 4.88 is a lot larger and stronger not to mention the rpm range with the 5.38 just seemed way too high. (my 2 cents)
All depends on the powertrain too...4.88 aint enough for the 3.8, probably not enough for the 3.6 and just right for an LS
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post #12 of 205 Old 04-19-2018, 11:59 AM
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Agreed.... 5.38s and a 6 speed behind the 3.8 in mine and its hard to hold 70 on the highway. Considering the options in the UD60s are 4.88 and 5.38 I would go deeper on the 3.6 auto as well. Better to have too much than not enough and especially so with a Jeep that isn't driven across the country.
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post #13 of 205 Old 04-19-2018, 12:44 PM
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wow, never thought i would be on a thread where i disagreed with thedirtman and alasha at the same time.

i think properly setup tons and 40s on a 4 door JK are a ton of fun, extremely useful, and still totally manageable as a daily driver ... ask me how i know.

i could pick apart everything i disagree with or i could just pass on one piece of advice: your current setup sounds great. why not explore and run it and find the limitations. wheel harder stuff. get stuck more. break something major. then take a step back and think how often you wheel, how often you wheel gnarly stuff, and what the best path forward is.
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post #14 of 205 Old 04-19-2018, 12:59 PM
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Just my 2cents here, but I always thought I wanted 40s and tons , but now not so much .l am on 37s with well built 44s and hydro and I wheel in logandale,Sand Hollow, Arazona and have no complaints.I am running 5.13s and love it on my 3.6 Rubicon. I have thought about trying some 39s wich are like 37s anyway when you measure them. I have friends on tons and 40s and can go anywhere theay do no problem. So I'm not so quick now to jump on that banwagon.hell some of my 40 friends are stepping back down to 37s!

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post #15 of 205 Old 04-19-2018, 09:13 PM
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I daily drive my 40/tons and it drives amazing both on and off-road. I pick a line and it goes. That said, I did it because I wanted to and I can...doesn't mean everyone should.

I loved my JK8 on 37/44s. I too did Pritchett on this set up without issues. I agree with many others, wheel what you have and if/when you have issues consider your options. There were many times during my latest build I thought, WTF am I doing? My current set up worked and drove great! Yep, I dumped $20k and still wonder if it was worth it. Total F*cking badass JK and magazine worthy (will see it soon) but for my total investment I could have a used Lamborghini, new Tesla, or Truck/trailer/buggy.


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post #16 of 205 Old 04-20-2018, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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Well thanks everyone.. though youíve brought up some good points, you havenít made this decision any easier lol


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post #17 of 205 Old 04-20-2018, 09:07 AM
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I think if you're going to add all the heavy axles, tires and everything else that goes with them, an LS should be part of the deal.
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post #18 of 205 Old 04-20-2018, 08:48 PM
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I have always been against doing big axles on my jeep. Not just the financial aspect of them, I can swing that. Its more the weight and are they really necessary. For me that answer is no. Until recently I was running a heavy 40" tire on an upgraded front 44 (currie rockjock) and the stock30 spline rear 44 geared 5.13. I am LS swapped and just knew the axle would explode at any minute... and I waited, and beat on it.... and waited some more... and it just kept on hanging in there. I recently ran across a good deal for a rear 60 already setup with JK brackets, ARB, and 5.13 gears and jumped on it. I basically got a drop in 60 for $2500. I sold my stocker for $800 on craigslist (not bad).

Point is, if I wasn't LS swapped and was in your shoes I wouldn't venture past a 37 and the only thing I would do is look into a nice 44 front axle. Carbon offroad has a really nice front 44 with a mind blowing 10 year free replacement warranty on the axle housing (currie rock jock), gears, ball joints, and locker of your choice. It comes with their chromo shafts that come with a 15 year warranty! They are providing an above and beyond warranty on parts they don't even make with no tire size or other ridiculous stipulations. Their warranty process consist of sending them a pic of the broken part and them sending you a new one, pretty easy. That sounds like a commercial I know but you cant beat that for the price point that is in line with all of their competitors not to mention the housing specs out better than most of them.
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post #19 of 205 Old 04-20-2018, 10:15 PM
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I have the UD60s with 4.88s in them and currently on 37s. I live about 1.5 hours from Moab and every time I made the drive, by the time I get there I wanted to put my jeep in a ditch and claim the insurance. Can't imagine running the 40s with the 4.88s for very long!! Trust me I tried, lasted a week and I sold the 40s for a set of 37s. Unless you have an LS I'd go with the 538s. I'm currently trying to sell my 4.88 UD60s so I can buy a set of 538 UD60S as opposed to having them regeared.
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post #20 of 205 Old 04-21-2018, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
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All of it.

My JK started as a rubi so front and rear 44s with e lockers and I sleeved and c gusseted the front running Walkers and 37s MTRs. I wheeled the snot out of the thing. Prichett, Behind the Rocks, Upper Heldorado and a bunch of other trails in BFE, Carnage Canyon in CO etc... The only time I had an issue with my axles is when I slid sideways into a curb going to work on a snowy day. Needed to replace a unit bearing and rear shaft.

Got the point where it was time to get a new set of tires. I should have just gotten another set of 37s but scored a ridiculous deal on a set of used 40" Trail Grapplers. Put those on and immediately didnt feel comfortable with 40s on the 44s. The brakes werent up the task, I was rubbing at full lock and the added ~40 pounds per corner just didnt sit well in my head so I ordered a set of UD60s.

I personally made a lot of decisions that people on here probably would have suggested against and maybe that is in part to blame with my reduced joy factor. I always have been in the LCG camp and with 2.5" long arms, everything worked flawlessly on 37s. On 40s, Im still not as dialed in (havent been as focused on this as I used to be). I also wheel in CO where trails can get pretty tight so I went with 4.5 BS wheels which with the 68" wide UD60s cause additional clearance issues. I also went with 4.88 gear thinking I might LS swap someday.

Regardless of the personal decisions, the 60s and 40s havent gotten me onto a trail that I wouldnt have tried on the old set up. The added weight of the new set up is most definitely noticeable which is probably my biggest peave and the cost just isnt worth it. Maybe I was fortunate or that I drive carefully but I never broke on the trail. Sure things like ball joints and brakes wear out but think of how may times you could replace those before you spend as much as you would on the 60s.

At the end of the day, its a JK so unless you are prepared to run trails that all but guarantee body damage (buggy only trails), you will spend quite a bit of money for marginal returns unless the peace of mind is worth that much to you.

Just my 1 cent though (not even worth a full 2)


I had typed-up one of my regular chapter-size comments regarding @ALASHA s comment but @Texas_Jester took care of it for me, heh.
No, this is very pertinent info from a trusted source ; myself ,and it seems a good few others , are in this stage of build / use so this is great info. I have been considering the next movesand bounce between sticking with 37s on maxed out OEM housings and parts that fortify versus the 1tons and 40s.

With this in mind , I gotta add that the larger housings ( UD60s) + bigger tires (40") permitted one of our fellow members - @TCdawg - to make it over an obstacle that my 37s and built stock housings could not clear by just about the amount of clearance difference between the two.
This took place ,literally ,a week ago.

I thought I had it all worked out in my head and was sticking with the 44s and 37s for my rig until Tony crawled up&over an obstacle with some good driving and his monster setup that , even with much help from quality spotters and 'spirited' crawling , I got 80% up but still needed to pull line on to finish. To be fair , I got positioned bad by misuse of my throttle for a split second, but either way , the first thing I said after spooling my line back in after Tony anchored and towed my rig over it was that "I want 40s so I can make it up that thing easier ..." .
Then there is the benefit of full float versus semi to consider w/ this huge investment and upgrade.

I'm more unsure now than ever what to do but info like what ALASHA and everyone else in this provide is really appreciated as is the OP for starting the discussion..

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post #21 of 205 Old 04-21-2018, 08:39 AM
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I think if you're going to add all the heavy axles, tires and everything else that goes with them, an LS should be part of the deal.


^this

What @Dkjeep and the above mention is what I left out; that, I don't think without - at minimum a supercharger - a better amount if power or just an LS upgrade that my four door would even be drivable on anything except flat roads if it had 1500-2000 additional pounds of housing and wheels/tires on it.



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post #22 of 205 Old 04-21-2018, 10:05 AM
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There's one more thing that isn't getting much attention in this discussion.

Where people live. That's not not important.

I live at 9' elevation (yep, flood zone in Louisiana) and it's all flat here. So driving around town or on the hwy wasn't really a problem even when I had the 39.5 IROK's on it. Start engine, hit the OD off button and all was good. When I went to 37's, it felt downright sporty.

Guys that live at altitude or in the mountains or have a lot of hills, I can understand the additional suck that it would bring trying to move an extra half ton or more.

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post #23 of 205 Old 04-23-2018, 07:03 AM
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I might be a bit different than others but I really enjoy daily driving my JKU on 1-tons and 40's. I think the comfort level is better vs. the 35's. The only major obvious downfall is the gas mileage and, even with 5.38's, its slow to get up to speed. Gas mileage will always be there and I don't need it to be a race car so I'm fine with it. Someone brought it up but environment plays a major factor in the drive-ability. I live in Texas so its pretty flat. I'd be hating myself if I lived in Colorado!

With that being said, unless doing some crazy shit, I don't think going beyond 37's is really necessary. I could have saved A TON of cash by sticking with a well outfitted Prorock 44 and stopping at 37's. Also, 37's will get you through 99% of trails you're most likely going to feel comfortable taking on.

The one thing I wish I would have been told is work on a budget with ALL the little stuff. The axles are just the start and seem to be the cheapest thing after upgrading so much of the surrounding stuff to have a proper setup.

Good luck with the choice! I have a bigger, better complex so I made the jump and really enjoy it. I'll also enjoy retiring it to a trailer next year when I get a new truck.

'14 Anvil JKU Sportis all that's in my garage.
What would I know though...I'm just crawlin' at the mall.


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post #24 of 205 Old 04-23-2018, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post



With this in mind , I gotta add that the larger housings ( UD60s) + bigger tires (40") permitted one of our fellow members - @TCdawg - to make it over an obstacle that my 37s and built stock housings could not clear by just about the amount of clearance difference between the two.
This took place ,literally ,a week ago.

I thought I had it all worked out in my head and was sticking with the 44s and 37s for my rig until Tony crawled up&over an obstacle with some good driving and his monster setup that , even with much help from quality spotters and 'spirited' crawling , I got 80% up but still needed to pull line on to finish. To be fair , I got positioned bad by misuse of my throttle for a split second, but either way , the first thing I said after spooling my line back in after Tony anchored and towed my rig over it was that "I want 40s so I can make it up that thing easier ..." .
Then there is the benefit of full float versus semi to consider w/ this huge investment and upgrade.

I'm more unsure now than ever what to do but info like what ALASHA and everyone else in this provide is really appreciated as is the OP for starting the discussion..

Its because I wasnt there to spot you

The point I was really trying to make is is getting over that one obstacle worth the ~15K investment and the rabbit whole that it will open up (V8 swap...)?
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post #25 of 205 Old 04-23-2018, 09:29 AM
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Just like all decisions, you have to first answer "what do you want the jeep to do"?
for me, I wanted a rig i could do 80 on the freeway and crawl with buggies. Road manners are the key here and if you think about it, bone stock will drive great.
my wife daily drives my JK on 40's, 1 ton axles and a hemi. The jeep sees about 11000 miles a year and I burn up a set of tires every other year. I like the beefy axles but the tires do hang out some and I know ill get pulled over eventually. It drives remarkable well and will indeed do 80 all day.
Off road its a beast, I had to cut a lot of pinch welds, trim many parts, and still have a few parts that rub a bit but i was able to put only 3.5" of lift in with the big axles and 40s. the low jeep with big tires is fun, but something that hasnt been discussed here much is the width. There are some trails out here that the width of the jeep is a problem. it also doesn't fit on a standard trailer

if you are willing to do a lot of cutting, risk getting a ticket, but new wheels, tires, and possibly drivetrain, then the 40's and tons are for you. otherwise you can run 37's and run 95% of the same trails.
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