question re: a temp roll-over re-enforcement measure - with pointy things! - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 03-30-2018, 05:46 AM Thread Starter
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question re: a temp roll-over re-enforcement measure - with pointy things!



I don’t want this to lead to some deep debate or “do it right or don’t do it “ conversation because I am very aware of the type of cage I want eventually welded properly into the jku . But, for a temporary safety precaution , for this season’s trails my daughter and I will be taking with our group, I want feedback on whether or not this ( below link) Rockhard4x4 CPillar brace kit is a valid, worthy addition in-leux of a real cage. I keep talking myself out of it but going back to it just to prevent the tin can crushdome we see from flops.

Rock Hard 4x4™ Bolt-In Ultimate Sport Cage C-Pillar Brace Kit for Jeep Wrangler JK 4DR 2007 - 2018 [RH-1035]

Worth getting until I get a real cage in a few years or a waste of silly bolt on $ ?

Opinions appreciated






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post #2 of 15 Old 03-30-2018, 07:10 AM
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I may be different than most. A lot of guys say they want to rollover and be able to keep wheeling. I have taken teh option of rolling over and being able to tell the story. Call me crazy. I have the Rock Hard Sport Cage, with all the trimmings. I haven't had to use it, and so it has not failed. I also bought the C-Pillar reinforcement like you showed. Without the rest of the cage, I think that it will help but cannot achieve maximum effectiveness.
Honestly, I don't know how much research and testing went into building the sport cages, so, they are all in a "this Should work" category, much like full weld in cages.
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post #3 of 15 Old 03-30-2018, 08:00 AM
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Truthfully, IDK how Jeep got away without putting a support there from the factory. That place on the JKU looks like a tremendously weak spot. Anything there to keep it from caving in and onto the heads of the rear passengers would be welcome in my eyes.

This is personal preference, I think it looks a lot better with that C-pillar. That massive gap with the doors and top off it fucking hideous.

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post #4 of 15 Old 03-30-2018, 08:59 AM
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I don't see how that will help anything unless you drop the jeep straight on the roof. No side to side support and in a roll over I would expect the bolts to tear out of the fender area on a flop that would have enough force to bend the main hoop. If you want to strengthen that area do a couple of 1.75" tubes from side to side that cross and make an X behind the seats. At least this will ass strength side to side in case of a flop or slow roll.
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post #5 of 15 Old 03-30-2018, 10:49 AM
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It cost little and adds a little...............go for it.

I'd like to see a much larger footprint on the bottom of it, but it is what it is. If you flop backwards or forwards on the top it will help, flop to the side and it won't add much to the equation.

As thedirtman said, it's the diagonal x-braces that really add strength to cages, no matter what type.

After having had a really good look at exactly how the factory cage is made, including what's inside the B-pillar, my view on the factory cage has gone way down. I'd suggest bumping safety equipment a little higher on the old priority list. Maybe just in front of fuel.

Do you already have the rockhard sport cage? If not, I have one I'll give ya if you pick it up.

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post #6 of 15 Old 03-30-2018, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Az Scooter View Post
I may be different than most. A lot of guys say they want to rollover and be able to keep wheeling. I have taken teh option of rolling over and being able to tell the story. Call me crazy. I have the Rock Hard Sport Cage, with all the trimmings. I haven't had to use it, and so it has not failed. I also bought the C-Pillar reinforcement like you showed. Without the rest of the cage, I think that it will help but cannot achieve maximum effectiveness.
Honestly, I don't know how much research and testing went into building the sport cages, so, they are all in a "this Should work" category, much like full weld in cages.
all useful and good points .

I probably should have mentioned that I can't dive-into getting a cage done because I'm saving for axles.
Or, my welding skills and equipment don't permit my burning my own (yet).

I'm glad you haven't had to use it .

I do not anticipate something like bolt-on ( no knock on rockhard or any other manufacture of bolt on cages) partial-cage parts to take any serious inversion but, the stock look so wimpy to me .
yeah; I don't doubt it'd not do a whole lot to fend-off smooshdome ,but might save our necks ; I guess with all the other stuff stock, it'd be negligible,the benefit.
But, I know that area in particular is weak and if itd add any strength to keep some stuff in place I'd go ahead.

After working all day it isn't as great a priority as it was with today's first cuppa coffee, heh.






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post #7 of 15 Old 03-30-2018, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gt1guy View Post
It cost little and adds a little...............go for it.

I'd like to see a much larger footprint on the bottom of it, but it is what it is. If you flop backwards or forwards on the top it will help, flop to the side and it won't add much to the equation.

As thedirtman said, it's the diagonal x-braces that really add strength to cages, no matter what type.

After having had a really good look at exactly how the factory cage is made, including what's inside the B-pillar, my view on the factory cage has gone way down. I'd suggest bumping safety equipment a little higher on the old priority list. Maybe just in front of fuel.

Do you already have the rockhard sport cage? If not, I have one I'll give ya if you pick it up.
no. I dont have any of the rockhard or PS boltin cage stuff.

I have some really good choices of shops but I may do it myself when I get mad skilled with TIG ...so, now, you dunno me that well;
I'll drive the hell to wherever so be careful watcha offer.


no,
I think you're right and I will go for it.

It was that damn set of pictures we saw of the Blue jk build that scared us, wasn't it ?!

There's nothing in our b pillars. That cannot be unseen!
lmao






-edit-

see. After agreeing with you , I noticed the comment sggtion
@thedirtman added & I then think thecsame.You are witnessing my internal dilemma play out in forum format.



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post #8 of 15 Old 04-01-2018, 08:33 AM Thread Starter
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After going thru your most recent thread updates, Kevin ,
@gt1guy , I’m gonna spend the money on a new Hobart or Everlast tig/stick DC welder instead of bolting those on. I figure that way I can be able to make my own support for that area (& other stuff) maybe by next year instead of getting nominal protection.
thanks for suggestions.






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Last edited by j3ff3ry_j33p; 04-01-2018 at 11:52 AM. Reason: corrected grammar and parentheses placement
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post #9 of 15 Old 04-01-2018, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post

After going thru your most recent thread updates, Kevin ,
@gt1guy , Iím gonna spend the money on a new Hobart or Everlast tig/stick DC welder (& other stuff) instead of bolting those on. I figure that way I can be able to make my own support for that area maybe by next year instead of getting nominal protection.
thanks for suggestions.





That's a good decision. Everyone needs a welder at the house. You'll be able to make a brace with substantially more support.
Where that RH brace mounts on the inner fender is only a single thin piece on metal. If you could move the whole thing to the rear slightly, so the bottom can reach the floor, it's multiple pieces thick with stiffeners underneath. Much stronger base and would have some angle on it in the direction you want.

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post #10 of 15 Old 04-01-2018, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post

After going thru your most recent thread updates, Kevin ,
@gt1guy , Iím gonna spend the money on a new Hobart or Everlast tig/stick DC welder (& other stuff) instead of bolting those on. I figure that way I can be able to make my own support for that area maybe by next year instead of getting nominal protection.
thanks for suggestions.




Not to get off-topic but in my humblest opinion, Everlast / Longevity will only break your heart if you need warranty service or post-sales support. If you want chinese junk, you can get one from HF and return it when it goes tits up.
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post #11 of 15 Old 04-01-2018, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gt1guy View Post
That's a good decision. Everyone needs a welder at the house. You'll be able to make a brace with substantially more support.
Where that RH brace mounts on the inner fender is only a single thin piece on metal. If you could move the whole thing to the rear slightly, so the bottom can reach the floor, it's multiple pieces thick with stiffeners underneath. Much stronger base and would have some angle on it in the direction you want.
uh- huh. You got it ; I started imagining the force of any kind being doled-out upon basically the wheelwell which is just sheetmetal spotwelded and that is strengthened by corrugation molds & a thicker plate = I picture any actual force from an angle above the roof would be substantial + it’d result in that side’s cpillar brace spearing thru one of my new Yokohama’s .


‘appreciate the feedback. You too , @thedirtman




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post #12 of 15 Old 04-01-2018, 12:08 PM Thread Starter
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@gt1guy

You did realize in my confusing post #7 in this thread that I was referencing how much you freaked me out with that revelation post in your build thread re: the inner b pillar ,w/ the lack-of-real-connectivity aside from some robot tack welds securing the OEM sport-bar ďroll cageĒ, right? Iím damaged goods now.





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post #13 of 15 Old 04-01-2018, 09:09 PM
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Geez. No kidding the JK cage is junk. For those who have peeled the foam and covering back, its truly an embarrassment. It has made me rethink my path on the trail several times. (which is not necessarily a bad thing) The JL cage is a huge improvement, but still not perfect.

DirtMan is, of course, correct on the need for cross bracing and more triangles. Easy to do. Hard to do and keep the passenger compartment usable in our family JKU. If it was an offroad rig, it would be a no-brainer... full cage in a heartbeat. Still thinking about doing it behind the second row...

I think for now the PS weld-in C-Pillar Kit. Combined with the Synergy rear-cage reinforcement is my next project when the top comes off for the summer.
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post #14 of 15 Old 04-01-2018, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3ff3ry_j33p View Post
@gt1guy

You did realize in my confusing post #7 in this thread that I was referencing how much you freaked me out with that revelation post in your build thread re: the inner b pillar ,w/ the lack-of-real-connectivity aside from some robot tack welds securing the OEM sport-bar ďroll cageĒ, right? Iím damaged goods now.



Well, it shouldn't be a surprise then, to see what it looks like where the back of the factory cage goes down through the inner fender.

[IMG][/IMG]

Oh, it doesn't go anywhere, it just stops.

Here's what's under it.

[IMG][/IMG]


As shitty as that looks, we can still learn something from it.

*It's sandwiched on both sides. Making it three pieces thick where the load hits.
*The bottom ties into a vertical piece of metal.
*In the first pic, the indentation creates vertical portions of metal, increasing resistance to bending.
*Wrapping around the corner gets into a long run of vertical metal, adding strength
*Tying into metal on multiple planes is a good thing.

And with all that engineering, I could still move the ends of those bars a few inches in any direction, before I cut the spot welds. It still had a lot of give.

Kevin
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post #15 of 15 Old 04-02-2018, 06:26 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gt1guy View Post
Well, it shouldn't be a surprise then, to see what it looks like where the back of the factory cage goes down through the inner fender.

[IMG][/IMG]

Oh, it doesn't go anywhere, it just stops.

Here's what's under it.

[IMG][/IMG]


As shitty as that looks, we can still learn something from it.

*It's sandwiched on both sides. Making it three pieces thick where the load hits.
*The bottom ties into a vertical piece of metal.
*In the first pic, the indentation creates vertical portions of metal, increasing resistance to bending.
*Wrapping around the corner gets into a long run of vertical metal, adding strength
*Tying into metal on multiple planes is a good thing.

And with all that engineering, I could still move the ends of those bars a few inches in any direction, before I cut the spot welds. It still had a lot of give.
great info and pix. Your posts teach me stuff all the time.
Still ,even reinforced, ha, that area and the weak cage tie in from factory freaks me out.
Full cage is only solution.




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