Humor me here about an off the wall axle setup. - JKowners.com : Jeep Wrangler JK Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 01-13-2018, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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Humor me here about an off the wall axle setup.

I'm not just kicking the tires here, I am actively building information for a rear axle upgrade on my 2dr jk. Let me tell you where I am and where I want to go....

2dr JK with LS swap, 40" maxxis treps, stock rear 44 with original 30 spline shafts, 5.13 gearing, and a locking diff. It has been good to me since it was new, no breaks or complaints. I am not oblivious to the fact that its going to give it up at some point the more and more I beat on it. My gut tells me that I will spin a tube on it at some point and roll up all the shit connected to it on one side or the other.

So I have been taking it semi easy on it and thinking about a replacement. If you kept up with my LS swap you noticed that I cant leave shit alone or do it like everyone else does.

My thoughts are going to a Ford 9". I realize it may not be "quite" as strong as a 14b but if anything its damn close. There is some solid weight savings there and dropping the 3rd member is cake for work or maintenance. I can also get center housing sections from just about any rear end fab place made for ford 9 and weld on whatever tubes and brackets I want.

One thing I have always heard is that you cant do high pinion rear without running the gears on the coast side. I did find this though and I know these folks have been around for a hot minute. Thoughts? I would love to be able to run high pinion rear with the short wheelbase that I have and the engine trans setup being longer than stock. My rear driveshaft is hurting for angle right now.

TrueHi9 - Home Page

Next is where I will leave you scratching your heads as I want to do a rear steer setup if for no other reason just to show off. I am not looking for info on how to pull off getting the actual steering setup done but more so what components axle wise would I be looking for. I can basically have any C or knuckle setup I wish if I am building the housing up from parts.

Who makes custom length shafts for an application like that? Remember the rear center section would be centered and that eliminates picking up off the shelf front shafts to use. Will a jointed shaft for steering be able to hold up to the power? Should I be looking at RCV's?

I am obviously going to need some extra width on the axle for steering so what should I be looking for here? I can limit the steering travel with the ram and dial that in as needed.

I will have more questions as it goes.
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post #2 of 24 Old 01-13-2018, 05:03 PM
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foote, dutchman, and I think RCV will build axle shafts how ever you want. Summit racing has 10 pages of dana axle shafts with spline count and lengths listed. You will need full hydraulic ram and steering orbital and an electric way to drive it with a switch and two way motor. If you don't go RCV then you want a super strong u joint CMT maybe. You can get knuckles and C from solid, dynatrac, spyder, parts mike and others. Get the brakes where you get the hubs. In the end you should expect to spend $12-15k on that set up.

Big difference in strength between a 9" and 14 bolt but keep telling yourself they are close enough.

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post #3 of 24 Old 01-13-2018, 05:26 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
foote, dutchman, and I think RCV will build axle shafts how ever you want. Summit racing has 10 pages of dana axle shafts with spline count and lengths listed. You will need full hydraulic ram and steering orbital and an electric way to drive it with a switch and two way motor. If you don't go RCV then you want a super strong u joint CMT maybe. You can get knuckles and C from solid, dynatrac, spyder, parts mike and others. Get the brakes where you get the hubs. In the end you should expect to spend $12-15k on that set up.

Big difference in strength between a 9" and 14 bolt but keep telling yourself they are close enough.
I'm just not seeing that cost estimation when I look at what the major parts cost. What are you seeing?
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post #4 of 24 Old 01-13-2018, 05:52 PM
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HIgh9 35 spline arb $3k
housing $729
shafts $1200
Reid inner c kingpin $660
Reid knuckles $600
Steering arms $280
Ujoints $600
seals $30
Kingpin rebuild kit $95
Brackets $400
Hub assembly $750
2.5x8" double ended ram $860
orbitial valve $700
Hydraulic hoses $50
rear steer joystick $585
warn hubs $250
Other stuff $?

Some build info here:
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post #5 of 24 Old 01-13-2018, 06:13 PM
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Hi9 make good stuff, but seems itís more intended for competition with shorter interval maintenance.

For daily use, better off with 14b, shaved if u want clearance

A regular F9 is quite good, if u want something a little different, but 40s, a heavy rig, and v8 power seems questionable on a hi9.

If you are worried about driveline angle, clearance, gearing, and 4ws, consider portals.
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post #6 of 24 Old 01-13-2018, 06:38 PM
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I think the hardest part is going to be making room for the tires to turn.

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post #7 of 24 Old 01-13-2018, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UFDUB View Post
Hi9 make good stuff, but seems itís more intended for competition with shorter interval maintenance.

For daily use, better off with 14b, shaved if u want clearance

A regular F9 is quite good, if u want something a little different, but 40s, a heavy rig, and v8 power seems questionable on a hi9.

If you are worried about driveline angle, clearance, gearing, and 4ws, consider portals.
Not a daily. I have put 400 miles on since late july / early sept.

Running an axle with a 3rd member seems advantageous dealing with a rear steer so you dont have to disassamble the steering to work on the axle.
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post #8 of 24 Old 01-13-2018, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gt1guy View Post
I think the hardest part is going to be making room for the tires to turn.
Im sure you know but they dont seem to turn as far as the front.
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post #9 of 24 Old 01-14-2018, 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Dkjeep View Post
Im sure you know but they dont seem to turn as far as the front.
I thought about that a little while after I posted. You really wouldn't need a lot of steer angle to reap the benefits.

If you do go HP, load bolts become mandatory. Maintenance intervals get much closer together due to the load bolts being a wear item that's putting fine particles of metal in your diff oil. I'd also have the gears shotpeened, cryo'd and REM polished. A drop out 3rd would make it a whole lot easier to keep an eye on how happy things are. You're using something in a way it wasn't meant to be used no matter 9", 10", D60 or 14B.

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post #10 of 24 Old 01-14-2018, 08:41 AM Thread Starter
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It comes with 1 load bolt and it appears I can add a second for mininal cost. They also offer rem polishing for an additional fee.

Only speaking of the gearset, strength wise where would this put me realisticly? Somewhere between a 44 and a 60?
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post #11 of 24 Old 01-14-2018, 09:00 AM
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I would say you are actually going to be weaker then a JK stock 44 which is 8.9" a dana 60 is 9.75". You simply have less contact running on the coast side.. OF course bigger pinion, gearings, case design all have an affect on deflection which typically causes the r&p failure.

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post #12 of 24 Old 01-14-2018, 09:03 AM
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You could have dynatrac build you a rear steer axle, its not that big a deal for them to put knuckles and shafts on a rear PR hp 60. The drop out third is a nice way to go if you are racing and need different gear ratios where you can have them already set up and swap in a new third but for non comp use there is little need vs the added expense and drawback of the low pinion.

Some build info here:
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post #13 of 24 Old 01-14-2018, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtman View Post
I would say you are actually going to be weaker then a JK stock 44 which is 8.9" a dana 60 is 9.75". You simply have less contact running on the coast side.. OF course bigger pinion, gearings, case design all have an affect on deflection which typically causes the r&p failure.
If you run reverse cut gears in any high pinion rear wouldn't that put you back running on the correct side of the gear tooth?
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post #14 of 24 Old 01-14-2018, 09:40 AM
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no, and all hp should be reverse cut.

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post #15 of 24 Old 01-14-2018, 10:07 AM
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Some reading material on the Mega.

mega hi9 support bearing cure??? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

As thedirtman said, it's going to be hard to compare running HP in the rear, strength wise to another axle, when the deflection of the carrier is a variable. In a way, it could come down to luck. In that link I added, there's guys saying they burned them up in 30 mins and guys saying they haven't had a problem in years.

If going by just tooth contact, the 9" design, with it's greater hypoid angle gets the nod. That's the reason they're so strong. If you're going by torque ratings, you're not going to beat the 14B.

Currie also makes a HP Rock Jock rear.

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post #16 of 24 Old 01-14-2018, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gt1guy View Post
Some reading material on the Mega.

mega hi9 support bearing cure??? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

As thedirtman said, it's going to be hard to compare running HP in the rear, strength wise to another axle, when the deflection of the carrier is a variable. In a way, it could come down to luck. In that link I added, there's guys saying they burned them up in 30 mins and guys saying they haven't had a problem in years.

If going by just tooth contact, the 9" design, with it's greater hypoid angle gets the nod. That's the reason they're so strong. If you're going by torque ratings, you're not going to beat the 14B.

Currie also makes a HP Rock Jock rear.
The idea of getting the pinion UP just sounds so appealing. Sounds like potential headache though.
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post #17 of 24 Old 01-14-2018, 10:27 AM
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Depends on the use like anything else. hp is good for rock crawling, pinion angles, clearance where if you are racing you need the strength to hp being thrown at it. The hp 60's from dynatrac and currie have been proven over time.

From the trend I have been seeing is that comp rock crawlers are getting lighter with less hp required. Makes sense, you don't need a v8 and lots of hp for technical crawling. Clearance and articulation are more important and a hp gives you that.

Some build info here:
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post #18 of 24 Old 01-14-2018, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkjeep View Post
The idea of getting the pinion UP just sounds so appealing. Sounds like potential headache though.
Running on the coast side "can" be a potential catastrophe. But if you look at the pic below from Carl Jantz, showing hypoid angles, just swapping from a LP44 to a LP60 gains you .375". It also shows the difference between HP and LP D60's is only 2.25". Difference between the Hi9 and a LP D60 is 3.5"


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post #19 of 24 Old 01-16-2018, 07:56 AM
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Gearworks makes a HP10"....


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post #20 of 24 Old 01-16-2018, 08:51 AM
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[/QUOTE]

Immediately after intercourse, the sperm travels through the cervix and uterus, into the Fallopian tubes.
A single sperm penetrates that egg and fertilization occurs.
This resulting single cell is called a zygote.
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post #21 of 24 Old 01-16-2018, 09:00 AM
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Immediately after intercourse, the sperm travels through the cervix and uterus, into the Fallopian tubes.
A single sperm penetrates that egg and fertilization occurs.
This resulting single cell is called a zygote.
DK did say "humor me".....
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post #22 of 24 Old 01-16-2018, 09:24 AM
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This would be nice..................but it's gonna cost ya.

ULTRA-14HP 3rd Member - Torq Axle

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post #23 of 24 Old 01-16-2018, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gt1guy View Post
This would be nice..................but it's gonna cost ya.

ULTRA-14HP 3rd Member - Torq Axle
That thing is tits. Scared to know what it cost.
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post #24 of 24 Old 01-16-2018, 03:56 PM
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That thing is tits. Scared to know what it cost.
According to Pirate, 8500 for a third member. Ouch.

Kevin
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