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post #1 of 36 Old 09-05-2010, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Build Stage 1, any flaws in this

So I think that I am going to start building using the
TeraFlex 2.5" Budget Boost without Shocks. My thinking is that it is inexpensive and slight upgradeable as cash flow permits. Next I will add a set of 5 Baja ATZ regulars (not plus) in 35 x 12.50 x 16. Besides a possible backspacing problem on stock rims is there anything tire wise I should look out for?

Any pointers on whether I should use the stock rims or search out an inexpensive rim, whats the deal with all these 15 inchers out there, are they too small for 35's?

Also I am in search of a decent set of rock rails, any suggestions?

My goal is really to do this all for under 2k, is this possible?
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post #2 of 36 Old 09-05-2010, 09:42 PM
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$2,000 Phase 1 build for 35s on a 4 door X:


That is $272 over, but you then sell stock tires and wheels to offset the cost and get enough funds to buy a CB and a tow strap.

If you order from Northridge4x4 today or tomorrow, or if you buy the same stuff from Phil (Trailduty.com) via a phone call, you can probably get a 5% or more discount from the prices above.

Also, consider giving Marcus a shout at River City Offroad. He's a good guy also.


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Last edited by planman; 09-06-2010 at 01:19 AM.
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post #3 of 36 Old 09-05-2010, 10:54 PM
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Planman puts together the best advice you could ask for.

I can help on the parts as well.

To back that up I have a two door with 2.5" bb and 35s on 15" Cragars. I love the look and the money I saved by going this route has allowed me to focus on other more important things like armor and recovery gear.

Let's see how much money we can keep in your pocket!


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post #4 of 36 Old 09-06-2010, 07:33 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks gents, no worries on the recovery and safety products though. I have all of that stuff out of my TJ.

The 15" cragars, aren't they too small? I thought the minimum for the disc brakes was 16's? Also, don't folks experience wobble with 15's?
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post #5 of 36 Old 09-06-2010, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatterBox View Post
Thanks gents, no worries on the recovery and safety products though. I have all of that stuff out of my TJ.

The 15" cragars, aren't they too small? I thought the minimum for the disc brakes was 16's? Also, don't folks experience wobble with 15's?
No to all three questions.

https://jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31104


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post #6 of 36 Old 09-06-2010, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChatterBox View Post
So I think that I am going to start building using the
TeraFlex 2.5" Budget Boost without Shocks. My thinking is that it is inexpensive and slight upgradeable as cash flow permits. Next I will add a set of 5 Baja ATZ regulars (not plus) in 35 x 12.50 x 16. Besides a possible backspacing problem on stock rims is there anything tire wise I should look out for?

Any pointers on whether I should use the stock rims or search out an inexpensive rim, whats the deal with all these 15 inchers out there, are they too small for 35's?

Also I am in search of a decent set of rock rails, any suggestions?

My goal is really to do this all for under 2k, is this possible?
Personally id go rustys 3" with shocks and trackbars for 550ish. You get disconnects too.

I don't think you'll be happy with a bb with stock shocks... but that's just me.
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post #7 of 36 Old 09-06-2010, 11:18 AM
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Hijack Begin...
Planman, you seem to be such an intelligent man. Which makes me wonder why you are still so active over at the other site? In my opinion your solid advice is far too valuable to be posted over there.
...Hijack over.
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post #8 of 36 Old 09-06-2010, 11:26 AM
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I don't get spending 400 or more on any bb when you can get a full spring lift with trackbars and discos for only a little more...
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post #9 of 36 Old 09-06-2010, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadAssJK View Post
Hijack Begin...
Planman, you seem to be such an intelligent man. Which makes me wonder why you are still so active over at the other site? In my opinion your solid advice is far too valuable to be posted over there.
...Hijack over.
Okay. Answer to hijack:

Thanks. Reasonable question. So, I will give a full answer.

I have friends at both places.

I don't post to benefit the owner either here or there. I post to share what I have learned from others and figured out on my own.

I am an over-analytical financial planner who knew nothing about jeeps and was actually afraid to install a 2" BB back in 2004 when I bought my 1st TJ.

In the last 6 years, I have been through builds with 2 TJs, 1 YJ, and 2 JKs. We have become a Jeep Family. All 3 family drivers have a jeep for a daily driver. We own a 1-ton dually and a 3 car wedge trailer to haul everything to Moab and other locales.

Most of what I have learned has come from jeepforum, stu-offroad, wanderingtrail, rubiconownersforum, pirate4x4, jkowners, and yes, I have learned much from 4x4xplor and jk-forum.

I like the idea of giving back and seeing people and families go through a similar experience of passion for offroading.

I think the idea of turning an internet magazine and corresponding forum into a self-sustaining, self-employment advertising business with the possibility of a 10 year+ run is brilliant. Imagine making a net 6-figure income testing products, doing install write-ups, doing product testing, attending shows, sponsoring events, developing your photography skills, etc. out of your home, self-employed, with no employees.

It would be like being an owner/editor for JP Magazine with less expense, less hassle, and no boss or employees.

I do not agree with all Eddie's methods of running his business, and he has made mistakes with some of his Moderator selections. It is sad that his opinion of vendors change after they stop advertising. It is sad how he will work against charity or offroad gatherings that appear to have any involvement from banned members.

Probably the most significant shame is that Steve Kramer (Full Traction) early on was successful in instituting a significant rift between Dave (Poly Performance) and Eddie that escalated into pettiness. This resulted in bashing Poly. Then, Dave made a fake member account to go on an try to defend Poly. Then, Eddie ends up with a blacklist of vendors who created fake member accounts that he says puff/pimp their products.

Now there are members of this and other forums that insult Eddie's wife and friends with personal attacks, racism, vulgarity, etc., etc. Although sometimes funny, it is kind of childish to me, and it discredits legitimate disagreements with Eddie's methods and business. None of the attacks will have any success in fostering a competing business to Eddie's.

Lance's primary business forum is pirate4x4. That is where he puts his focus. I would also. It is a bigger market than jkowners. Maybe if he sold jkowners to someone who could develop a sister internet magazine to compete with Project-JK as a full-time self employment business, jkowners could both charge more for advertising and grow faster.

Some former Moderators from over there who now moderate/contribute here are working to build this site right--with good write-ups, vendors, and advertising. However, it is hard for a forum of volunteers to compete with a full-time business owner.

I run PSC, Teraflex, OME, Rock Krawler, Off Road Evolution, AEV, Hanson, PureJeep, Warn, Dynatrac, Walker Evans, and other products from vendors there, but you probably have noticed that my JKF stickers are gone, that I have a Poly Performance tie rod, truss, and sliders.

Hijack over.




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post #10 of 36 Old 09-06-2010, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2k2wranglerx View Post
I don't get spending 400 or more on any bb when you can get a full spring lift with trackbars and discos for only a little more...
By the time you add the missing components of extended brakelines or brakeline extensions ($20-$180), and extended bumpstops ($80), then add shipping ($91), you are at $761-$921 for the Rusty's.

Plus, the 3.25" springs will require either cam bolts or front lower control arms to not have flightly steering. So, add another $300+.



The TF BB is complete. Or, for $460 instead of $380, you can buy the TF kit with springs instead of spring spacers.

So, to compare to the Rusty's at $761-$921 shipped, the TF 2.5" coil lift with higher quality shocks is $631. Then, add $144 for a JKS adjustable front trackbar--also higher quality than Rusty's.

So, your total would be $775 shipped vs. $761 shipped, but you could get by without adjustable front lower control arms with a 2.5" lift instead of a 3.25" lift.

Also, with an automatic JK, the front driveshaft boot will survive longer on a 2.5" lift instead of a 3.25" lift.

Regardless of how you look at it, the TF/JKS is a better buy than the Rusty's.


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post #11 of 36 Old 09-06-2010, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
Okay. Answer to hijack:

Thanks. Reasonable question. So, I will give a full answer.

I have friends at both places.

I don't post to benefit the owner either here or there. I post to share what I have learned from others and figured out on my own.

I am an over-analytical financial planner who knew nothing about jeeps and was actually afraid to install a 2" BB back in 2004 when I bought my 1st TJ.

In the last 6 years, I have been through builds with 2 TJs, 1 YJ, and 2 JKs. We have become a Jeep Family. All 3 family drivers have a jeep for a daily driver. We own a 1-ton dually and a 3 car wedge trailer to haul everything to Moab and other locales.

Most of what I have learned has come from jeepforum, stu-offroad, wanderingtrail, rubiconownersforum, pirate4x4, jkowners, and yes, I have learned much from 4x4xplor and jk-forum.

I like the idea of giving back and seeing people and families go through a similar experience of passion for offroading.

I think the idea of turning an internet magazine and corresponding forum into a self-sustaining, self-employment advertising business with the possibility of a 10 year+ run is brilliant. Imagine making a net 6-figure income testing products, doing install write-ups, doing product testing, attending shows, sponsoring events, developing your photography skills, etc. out of your home, self-employed, with no employees.

It would be like being an owner/editor for JP Magazine with less expense, less hassle, and no boss or employees.

I do not agree with all Eddie's methods of running his business, and he has made mistakes with some of his Moderator selections. It is sad that his opinion of vendors change after they stop advertising. It is sad how he will work against charity or offroad gatherings that appear to have any involvement from banned members.

Probably the most significant shame is that Steve Kramer (Full Traction) early on was successful in instituting a significant rift between Dave (Poly Performance) and Eddie that escalated into pettiness. This resulted in bashing Poly. Then, Dave made a fake member account to go on an try to defend Poly. Then, Eddie ends up with a blacklist of vendors who created fake member accounts that he says puff/pimp their products.

Now there are members of this and other forums that insult Eddie's wife and friends with personal attacks, racism, vulgarity, etc., etc. Although sometimes funny, it is kind of childish to me, and it discredits legitimate disagreements with Eddie's methods and business. None of the attacks will have any success in fostering a competing business to Eddie's.

Lance's primary business forum is pirate4x4. That is where he puts his focus. I would also. It is a bigger market than jkowners. Maybe if he sold jkowners to someone who could develop a sister internet magazine to compete with Project-JK as a full-time self employment business, jkowners could both charge more for advertising and grow faster.

Some former Moderators from over there who now moderate/contribute here are working to build this site right--with good write-ups, vendors, and advertising. However, it is hard for a forum of volunteers to compete with a full-time business owner.

I run PSC, Teraflex, OME, Rock Krawler, Off Road Evolution, AEV, Hanson, PureJeep, Warn, Dynatrac, Walker Evans, and other products from vendors there, but you probably have noticed that my JKF stickers are gone, that I have a Poly Performance tie rod, truss, and sliders.

Hijack over.
Well said.

Last edited by azxr; 09-06-2010 at 03:34 PM. Reason: Took out pictures
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post #12 of 36 Old 09-06-2010, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
Okay. Answer to hijack:

Thanks. Reasonable question. So, I will give a full answer.

I have friends at both places.

I don't post to benefit the owner either here or there. I post to share what I have learned from others and figured out on my own.

I am an over-analytical financial planner who knew nothing about jeeps and was actually afraid to install a 2" BB back in 2004 when I bought my 1st TJ....

I appreciate your candor.
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post #13 of 36 Old 09-07-2010, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by planman View Post
By the time you add the missing components of extended brakelines or brakeline extensions ($20-$180)

You don't need them

, and extended bumpstops ($80), then add shipping ($91), you are at $761-$921 for the Rusty's.

with 35's You don't need bump stops

Plus, the 3.25" springs will require either cam bolts or front lower control arms to not have flightly steering. So, add another $300+.

You don't need them, every rig i've put it on has not needed any castor correction. we are going to add AEV brackets (100 bucks) to one to help the ride some



The TF BB is complete. Or, for $460 instead of $380, you can buy the TF kit with springs instead of spring spacers.

So, to compare to the Rusty's at $761-$921 shipped, the TF 2.5" coil lift with higher quality shocks is $631. Then, add $144 for a JKS adjustable front trackbar--also higher quality than Rusty's.

So, your total would be $775 shipped vs. $761 shipped, but you could get by without adjustable front lower control arms with a 2.5" lift instead of a 3.25" lift.

again you don't need front LCA's

Also, with an automatic JK, the front driveshaft boot will survive longer on a 2.5" lift instead of a 3.25" lift.

Think mud and dax both run this kit with auto's and 35's (well buck is running 37's with flat fenders on his rubi) and none of them have had any driveshaft issues.

Regardless of how you look at it, the TF/JKS is a better buy than the Rusty's.
i disagree wholeheartedly.

rusty's is 550 plus 60 shipping shipping. Take it for what it's worth, but on all 4 rigs i've installed it on, 2 have been automatics daily driven and none have had driveshaft issues, none have had flighty steering, and all of them have rode really nicely (only one guy sprung for the bilsteins)

we didn't add bump stops to ANY of them, and buck ran 37" iroks with flat fenders with no issues.

we installed a 2.5" TF BB back in 07 on thinkmud's first JK. he had to run a 3/4" spacer up front to help level it and it still rubbed really badly with the 35's

that being said, i've also installed the 2.5" coil spring tf kit with 35's and it was very nice, although i'm pretty sure it gave more than 2.5"! I've only installed one but it rode nicely and i have nothing bad to say about it. that guy did add TF LCA's and a TF front track bar though.

So if it's:

400 + shipping BB vs 620 shipped Rusty's vs 761 shipped TF coil kit... I'd do one of the latter. If you want to save a little $ rusty's is fine, if you want the TF it's a good kit too. bottom line is i'd spend a little more $ and buy the coil kit.


Hey but what do i know. i've only installed and worked with both

i'll post pics later when i'm not at work.

Last edited by 2k2wranglerx; 09-07-2010 at 08:39 AM.
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post #14 of 36 Old 09-07-2010, 09:45 AM
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found some pics

thinkmud's 09 rubi, automatic with rusty's 3.25 with flatties and 36" bias iroks (measure closer to 37")







Rusty's on the left, AEV on the right





the AEV would just BARELY droop more than the rusty's (not in that pic, on the RTI) but the AEV also blew up the front driveshaft at wellsville lol (it pulled it out)
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post #15 of 36 Old 09-07-2010, 09:56 AM
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I don't really want to get in a pissing match, but I disagree completely with you and assert that your recommendation will cause poor handling and actually result in damage to anyone who follows it and wheels their rig with a fully flexed suspension.

First, at 3.25" caster will be less than 2 degrees. In fact, many have reported caster in the 2 degrees range with just a 2.5" lift. As a result, nearly every reputable manufacturer that sells lifts over 2.5" either includes or recommends either cambolts, front lower control arm relocation brackets, or front lower adjustable control arms.

Low caster results in flighty steering and wobbles. Spec caster is in the 4+ degrees range.

What is your caster spec with a 3.25" lift and stock arms?

Second, bumpstops.

The stock yellow bumpstops are relatively soft. As a result, when measuring available suspension travel you need to measure from the metal lip of the bumpstop cup to the lower spring pad in the front and the bumpstop pad in the rear.

Here are stock front bumpstops with flat flares, 4.5" backspaced wheels and 35s:



Even with 2" front extended bumpstops, 35s will rip off pieces of the front flare plastic support skeleton for stock flares.

A fully compressed front bumpstop with stock flares and 35s will actually cause damage.

If stock bumpstopping were sufficient to run 35s without rubbing on stock flares, you could run 35s with no lift.

Also on extended bumpstops, one of the purposes is to prevent your springs from overcompressing. Stock bumpstops will not prevent 3.25" springs from overcompressing.

Please show a fully flexed out suspension (yellow bumpstops compressed by at least 1/2) on 35s with stock flares, no body lift, and stock bumpstops with the amount of clearance left.

Regarding flat flares and 37s, here is a compressed rear suspension with 2.5" extended bumpstops, 1" body lift and flat flares (and you say that someone can run 37s on stock bumpstops and flat flares with no body lift that would reduce the clearance by 3.5" when flexed):






Also with 37s, here is stock front bumpstops not entirely compressed and overcompressed front springs, with flat flares, and a 1" body lift (You say it will work without the body lift. So, where is the extra 1" clearance from no body lift and extra almost 1" travel from completely compressed front bumpstops?):






Third, brakelines.

Shocks sufficiently long to run 3.25" springs require extended rear brakelines.

Here is a fully drooped rear suspension on shocks for a 2.5" lift with 2.5" rear extended brakelines:



Without the extended rear brakelines, the shocks appropriate for a 2.5" lift would have overextended the brakelines at full droop--causing damage.

Please show a picture of fully extended shocks appropriate for a 3.25" lift with no extension to the stock rear brakelines.

Fourth, driveshafts.

The automatic transmission pan on a JK has low clearance to the stock front driveshaft boot. When the suspension flexes beyond the droop of about a 2" shock, the driveshaft boot comes in contact with the transmission pan and rips the boot.

100% of my friends who have wheeled an automatic JK on a 2.5" or taller lift have torn their stock front driveshaft boot on the tranny pan within their first few wheeling trips.

Even without an automatic transmission pan, shocks that are sufficiently long for a 3.25" lift will allow the stock front driveshaft boot to rub on the exhaust system that crosses infront of the frame crossmember. This will rip the stock boot if there is any meaningful forward or back motion--causing the driveshaft boot to spin on the exhaust system. Most people do not flex out their exhaust system that much for this problem with the exhaust, but those who do will rip the boot.

Fifth, swaybar links.

I missed it before above, but the Rusty's kit does not include longer rear swaybar links (added to the missing extended bumpstops, and brakeline extensions).

With a 3.25" lift and stock rear swaybar links, the geometry of the rear swaybar is all out of spec. The links should be long enough so that the swaybars are a few degrees higher than level. With too short rear swaybar links, the rear shocks will not be able to fully droop (maybe this is why none of you or your friends have ripped out your rear brakelines yet).

Too short rear swaybar links will cause "jumpy" handling on turns and will not fully allow the shocks and springs to do their job when cornering.


Lastly, cost.

The shipping of the Rusty's to me in Montana is $91. So the Rusty's kit would be $641 shipped--without extended bumpstops, brakelines, or rear swaybar links. I suppose someone who is closer would pay less shipping.

The cost of the TF BB is $380 including shipping. The cost of the 2.5" coil lift with shocks is $631 including shipping.

If you add the missing components to the Rusty's kit and a JKS front trackbar to the Teraflex 2.5" spring lift with shocks, the difference in price is less than a full tank of gas.

I like Rusty's and have ordered from them in the past. They have always provided good service and been very responsive.

However, I don't like it when any manufacturer sells a kit they know is incomplete and will cause problems.

Also, as a quality comparison:

The JKS front trackbar uses Clevite rubber bushings instead of poly bushings.

Also, look at the size and strength of the adjustable ends comparing the JKS to the Rusty's:




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Last edited by planman; 09-07-2010 at 10:05 AM.
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post #16 of 36 Old 09-07-2010, 10:06 AM
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I don't really want to get in a pissing match, but I disagree completely with you and assert that your recommendation will cause poor handling and actually result in damage to anyone who follows it and wheels their rig with a fully flexed suspension.

none of the 4 rigs i've done the rusty's on have spontaneously combusted.... yet....

First, at 3.25" caster will be less than 2 degrees. In fact, many have reported caster in the 2 degrees range with just a 2.5" lift. As a result, nearly every reputable manufacturer that sells lifts over 2.5" either includes or recommends either cambolts, front lower control arm relocation brackets, or front lower adjustable control arms.

Low caster results in flighty steering and wobbles. Spec caster is in the 4+ degrees range.

I'm aware of what castor does. come drive one of these and tell me if it's flighty

What is your caster spec with a 3.25" lift and stock arms?

We have yet to have to get one aligned. that said, i added AEV brackets to the wife's for flighty steering with only 2.5" of lift (rubi springs/shocks, 1" front spacer), every jeep is different. hers didnt' even come in to spec that AEV recommends to add the brackets and she still needed them

Second, bumpstops.

The stock yellow bumpstops are relatively soft. As a result, when measuring available suspension travel you need to measure from the metal lip of the bumpstop cup to the lower spring pad in the front and the bumpstop pad in the rear.

Here are stock front bumpstops with flat flares, 4.5" backspaced wheels and 35s:



Even with 2" front extended bumpstops, 35s will rip off pieces of the front flare plastic support skeleton for stock flares.

A fully compressed front bumpstop with stock flares and 35s will actually cause damage.

If stock bumpstopping were sufficient to run 35s without rubbing on stock flares, you could run 35s with no lift.

You'll just have to wait for pics of the first JK we put on 35's with stock flares

Also on extended bumpstops, one of the purposes is to prevent your springs from overcompressing. Stock bumpstops will not prevent 3.25" springs from overcompressing.

Please show a fully flexed out suspension (yellow bumpstops compressed by at least 1/2) on 35s with stock flares, no body lift, and stock bumpstops with the amount of clearance left.

You're gonna have to wait till later for pics

Regarding flat flares and 37s, here is a compressed rear suspension with 2.5" extended bumpstops, 1" body lift and flat flares (and you say that someone can run 37s on stock bumpstops and flat flares with no body lift that would reduce the clearance by 3.5" when flexed):






Also with 37s, here is stock front bumpstops not entirely compressed and overcompressed front springs, with flat flares, and a 1" body lift (You say it will work without the body lift. So, where is the extra 1" clearance from no body lift and extra almost 1" travel from completely compressed front bumpstops?):








Third, brakelines.

Shocks sufficiently long to run 3.25" springs require extended rear brakelines.

Here is a fully drooped rear suspension on shocks for a 2.5" lift with 2.5" rear extended brakelines:



Without the extended rear brakelines, the shocks appropriate for a 2.5" lift would have overextended the brakelines at full droop--causing damage.

Please show a picture of fully extended shocks appropriate for a 3.25" lift with no extension to the stock rear brakelines.


I posted pics above of them both flexing out... i don't know what else to tell ya



Fourth, driveshafts.

The automatic transmission pan on a JK has low clearance to the stock front driveshaft boot. When the suspension flexes beyond the droop of about a 2" shock, the driveshaft boot comes in contact with the transmission pan and rips the boot.

100% of my friends who have wheeled an automatic JK on a 2.5" or taller lift have torn their stock front driveshaft boot on the tranny pan within their first few wheeling trips.

stop letting them buy shocks that are too long

Even without an automatic transmission pan, shocks that are sufficiently long for a 3.25" lift will allow the stock front driveshaft boot to rub on the exhaust system that crosses infront of the frame crossmember. This will rip the stock boot if there is any meaningful forward or back motion--causing the driveshaft boot to spin on the exhaust system. Most people do not flex out their exhaust system that much for this problem with the exhaust, but those who do will rip the boot.

Lastly, cost.

The shipping of the Rusty's to me in Montana is $91. So the Rusty's kit would be $641 shipped--without extended bumpstops or brakelines. I suppose someone who is closer would pay less shipping.

The cost of the TF BB is $380 including shipping. The cost of the 2.5" coil lift with shocks is $631 including shipping.

If you add the missing components to the Rusty's kit and a JKS front trackbar to the Teraflex 2.5" spring lift with shocks, the difference in price is less than a full tank of gas.

I like Rusty's and have ordered from them in the past. They have always provided good service and been very responsive.

However, I don't like it when any manufacturer sells a kit they know is incomplete and will cause problems.

it's fine, you're drinking the kool aid

Also, as a quality comparison:

The JKS front trackbar uses Clevite rubber bushings instead of poly bushings.

Also, look at the size and strength of the adjustable ends comparing the JKS to the Rusty's:





I have been quoted many times (and you've seen it) saying how impressive the TF track bar is

see above


i like the TF kit. don't get me wrong. I just don't think the rusty's is "incomplete" plus you can always call and they'll knock $ off the lift (at least they did for us).

Last edited by 2k2wranglerx; 09-07-2010 at 10:15 AM.
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post #17 of 36 Old 09-07-2010, 10:30 AM
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So you are saying:
  • Caster usually doesn't matter and 3.25" on stock arms gives good handling results. (I suppose this could be subjective.)
  • You can fully compress the front and rear stock bumpstops with 35s and stock flares with no rubbing. (Looking forward to the pictures.)
  • Over-compressing springs due to insufficient bumpstopping does not matter. (I guess all the engineers and manufactuers I have spoken to are wrong about this.)
  • You can fully droop rear shocks for a 3.25" lift on stock rear brakelines. (Please show a pic of that.)
  • I'm drinking Kool Aid because I needed 2.5" rear extended bumpstops, 1" body lift and flat flares to run 37s with slight rubbing on full compression, and that my jeep must be different because I should have an extra 3.5" travel so I could stuff 37s with stock rear bumpstops and flat flares with no body lift.
  • I am also drinking Kool Aid because I should have been able to run stock front bumpstops with 37s and flat flares with no body lift. (Are my pics doctored or something?)
  • Shocks that allow springs to fully extend are too long. (Here I thought that shocks that top out way before a spring extends are too short.)
  • Stock rear swaybar links on 3.25" lift springs are good. (I suppose the handling part could be subjective, but the correct geometry for a swaybar is pretty clear--I thought.)

I am not saying that the 3.25" Rusty's kit will cause a JK to spontaneously combust.

I am saying that it will cause:
  • damage when flexed out with stock flares, bumpstops and 35s
  • low caster--which affects steering, wobbles, and handling.
  • damage to rear brakelines if the shocks are fully drooped
  • overcompressed springs when the suspension is fully flexed--shortening the productive life of the springs
  • ripped stock front driveshaft boots for automatic JKs
  • ripped/damaged rear stock driveshaft CV boots on 2 door JKs
  • bowing rear springs causing clearance problems between the rear trackbar and passenger rear spring on 2 door JKs


I am also saying there is a quality difference between the Rusty's shocks and the Teraflex shocks.

Basically...you sometimes get what you pay for.

and...you can probably get another 5% off the TF kits if you call to order from Northridge, TrailDuty, or River City Offroad.


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Last edited by planman; 09-07-2010 at 10:35 AM.
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post #18 of 36 Old 09-07-2010, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
So you are saying:
  • Caster usually doesn't matter and 3.25" on stock arms gives good handling results. (I suppose this could be subjective.)

    I'm saying come drive one of the 4 doors i've put thisk it on and you tell me.
  • You can fully compress the front and rear stock bumpstops with 35s and stock flares with no rubbing. (Looking forward to the pictures.)

    RTI pics are coming, can't get into photobucket at work
  • Over-compressing springs due to insufficient bumpstopping does not matter. (I guess all the engineers and manufactuers I have spoken to are wrong about this.)

    what are you parking it fully flexed out overnight?
  • You can fully droop rear shocks for a 3.25" lift on stock rear brakelines. (Please show a pic of that.)

    with the shocks provided in the rusty's kit you can.
  • I'm drinking Kool Aid because I needed 2.5" rear extended bumpstops, 1" body lift and flat flares to run 37s with slight rubbing on full compression, and that my jeep must be different because I should have an extra 3.5" travel so I could stuff 37s with stock rear bumpstops and flat flares with no body lift.

    You're failing to see that the numbers on the lift do not always correspond to the actual height. Also, different springs have different numbers of coils depending on spring rate. for example (and sorry for the TJ examples) a tj skyjacker 8" coil has more coils but provides the same amount of lift as a RE 5.5 coil. the tighter coils make it less likely to damage the spring by overcompression. I have no idea the difference between whatever spring you ran and the rusty's is.
  • I am also drinking Kool Aid because I should have been able to run stock front bumpstops with 37s and flat flares with no body lift. (Are my pics doctored or something?)

    Again, i'm only speaking to rusty's lift, not whatever lift you ran
  • Shocks that allow springs to fully extend are too long. (Here I thought that shocks that top out way before a spring extends are too short.)

    I prefer just unseated. i can't remember in the rear but the front rusty's springs are "loose" (you can spin them easily) but not unseated at full droop. I can't say i ever checked the rear. the AEV (i think i posted the pic) unseats about 2-3"
  • Stock rear swaybar links on 3.25" lift springs are good. (I suppose the handling part could be subjective, but the correct geometry for a swaybar is pretty clear--I thought.)

    The rusty's comes with disconnects

I am not saying that the 3.25" Rusty's kit will cause a JK to spontaneously combust.

I am saying that it will cause:
  • damage when flexed out with stock flares, bumpstops and 35s

    pics are coming
  • low caster--which affects steering, wobbles, and handling.

    Come drive one
  • damage to rear brakelines if the shocks are fully drooped

    we've wheeled the piss out of all these rigs and have yet to have a rear brake line problem.... although i think we did relocate the rear lines on buck's... i'll have to text him and ask. I can't remember. We did need to extend the breathers on the front diff though
  • overcompressed springs when the suspension is fully flexed--shortening the productive life of the springs

    See above for the answer to your oversimplified assumption
  • ripped stock front driveshaft boots for automatic JKs

    the Rusty's doesn't need driveshafts. at least that's been our experience. the AEV 4.25 says you don't either... although nick and i have proved that wrong lol. in AEV's defense his shocks still had the extenders on it
  • ripped/damaged rear stock driveshaft CV boots on 2 door JKs

    I've only put it on 4 doors to this point... which the OP has
  • bowing rear springs causing clearance problems between the rear trackbar and passenger rear spring on 2 door JKs

    see above


I am also saying there is a quality difference between the Rusty's shocks and the Teraflex shocks.

i haven't had a chance to pull the numbers off either shock to see who makes them. Il'l let ya know if i get around to it.

Basically...you sometimes get what you pay for.

i agree
and...you can probably get another 5% off the TF kits if you call to order from Northridge, TrailDuty, or River City Offroad.
as before, see above

I think part of the problem is you're generalizing lift height as well. not all same lift height springs are the same. in this case, with rusty's, these are our experiences.

Last edited by 2k2wranglerx; 09-07-2010 at 11:11 AM.
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post #19 of 36 Old 09-07-2010, 11:17 AM
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Are you guys going to meet behind the gym at 3:15?
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post #20 of 36 Old 09-07-2010, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkristie44 View Post
Are you guys going to meet behind the gym at 3:15?
i can't, i am to busy actually working on one of my jeeps



it's just a difference of opinion. no big deal. I think if he came out here and drove dax's jeep he'd say "wow, this isn't sketchy or flighty or anything... interesting"

Last edited by 2k2wranglerx; 09-07-2010 at 11:26 AM.
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post #21 of 36 Old 09-07-2010, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2k2wranglerx View Post
i can't, i am to busy actually working on one of my jeeps
I just figured since you used all that extra large bold red font that you were ready to throw down or something.

And right back atcha
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post #22 of 36 Old 09-07-2010, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkristie44 View Post
I just figured since you used all that extra large bold red font that you were ready to throw down or something.

And right back atcha
oh, the fingers were a jab at planman sorry about that lol.


i tried yellow but it hurt my eyes....
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post #23 of 36 Old 09-07-2010, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkristie44 View Post
Are you guys going to meet behind the gym at 3:15?
Naw. I am sure we would have a great time wheeling together.

I am guessing that the uncompressed length of the Rusty's springs must be much shorter than other manufacturers, allowing them to run much shorter shocks.

I am also guessing that running super short rear swaybar links restricts the rear droop so much that the flex is less than most 2.5" lifts in order to not damage the rear brakelines.

I do know that less than 2 degrees caster handles worse than more than 4 degrees caster. So I am confused with the assertion that 3.25" on stock arms handles great--unless the springs are sagging to less than 3.25" due to the winch and steel bumper.

There has to be some logical explanation for what he is saying.

What cannot mathematically or geometrically make sense is that you can fully compress stock bumpstops with stock flares and 35s without serious rubbing.

There is also no way you can fully compress the front bumpstops with 37s, flat flares, and no body lift. There is no way you can fully compress rear stock bumpstops with flat flares, no body lift, and 37s.

He is promoting Rusty's, and I am repeating not only personal experience, but the bumpstop recommendations for 35s and stock flares for TF, Currie, FT, Clayton, Zone, BDS, etc., etc.


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post #24 of 36 Old 09-07-2010, 12:40 PM
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Having built a few JKs and gone through numerous swaps of suspension parts on my own rig, I'm gonna have to agree with the planman on this one.

My 35"s STUFF on my rig with my 2.5" bump stops.
They don't quite rub, but are REALLY close.

On a TF BB kit w/shock extensions - using the TF brake line drop brackets with factory rubi shocks, the rear brake lines are taught at full droop.
Not banjo string taught but there aint no slack either!

Also, I'm running poly progressive 4.5" springs - lots of coils and they don't unseat with poly JK synergy shocks, BUT when I mash the front stops the coils are squished down and touching each other - not enough to distort, but once again, there aint no extra.

One thing though, if you plan to eventually switch to a real steel bumper& winch, your front springs are gonna sag with just the pucks. So figure on spending another $150 at that point on some poly 3" front springs.

your stock rims are fine for running bigger tires, just figure on spending ~$150-$200 on a set of spidertrax spacers.
Cheaper than a new set of wheels and they work fine - I've been wheeling the crap out of mine with 35"s on my stock rims for almost 3 years.

as for rock rails, a set up factory rubi take off rails can usually be had for ~$100 and they hold up well.


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post #25 of 36 Old 09-07-2010, 12:48 PM
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In no way am I promoting rustys. I'm not a shop and don't sell them. Hell I'm running a bastard lift with stock bump stops on my 2 door with no issues other than a little rubbing on the fenders.

I've just installed a lot of lifts. That's all I go while I'm posting on my cell... I'll post those pics later
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