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post #1 of 622 Old 07-20-2017, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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Blue jeep build

I guess it’s time to start a build thread, since I went and tore the Jeep apart. I’ve been collecting parts for this build for the past few years, so I probably have at least 80% of what I need to complete it. The big ticket items I have and should keep me busy for a while. The rest is mostly stuff I need to get the build rolling along to figure out. Drive shaft lengths, axle lengths, brake lines, fuel lines, exhaust, etc.

I’ve also never named a vehicle, hell, my old dogs name was Dog, so we’ll just call it the blue jeep build

Anyway, the plan, here’s what I want to do. Starting with a 2010 JKU Sport.

LS conversion with a LS3/525 – , RPM Extreme kit

6l90 w/2800 stall converter, Winters shifter (hits all 7 detents in the trans), Twist Machine paddle shifter

Hero 3 speed transfer case 2.78/4.33 , VSS in tail shaft housing

Rear axle-72.875” wms/wms, JRat 3rd , RuffStuff housing, 40spline ARB, D70 5.13 gears, Solid 40 spline spindles and hubs, 13”Wilwood rotors/ Aero6 calipers, coilover/bypass mts.

Front axle- 73.25”wms/wms. JRat 3rd , RuffStuff housing, 40spline ARB, D70 5.13 gears, Crane C’s and knuckles, Solid 40spline spindles and hubs, 14” Wilwood rotors/Aero6 calipers, coilover/bypass mts

Trail Ready HD17RC wheels and 45x14.50TSL/SXII’s

Hydroboost w/1 5/16th master cylinder

Howe Full hydro steering

32gal Fuel Safe cell sunk down into floor behind axle

Full cage, through dash, incorporating the seat mounts and upper mounts for the CO/bypass F&R

PRP- Podium Elite seats, 42” matching Bench seat, Schroth Harnesses

F&R double triangulated 4-links (rear is easy, front is going to take some work……………a lot of work), minimum 6” up travel (I want more if I can move enough stuff around), ~3.5” lift

Other misc stuff to include:

Line lock for the parking brake.

No wheel speed sensors, will use a Dakota Digital signal conditioner off the rear output VSS of the transfer case to feed the speedo signal.

ABS shit removed. I believe the brain box has to stay but the pump and all the extra lines can go.

EVAP shit removed.

Cruise control will be done through a remote mounted Rostra switch, due to the clock spring issue with full hydro steering.
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Last edited by gt1guy; 08-01-2017 at 01:42 AM.
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post #2 of 622 Old 07-20-2017, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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I ended up tearing the Jeep apart because of how far I had to dig trying to figure out the front suspension. That doesn’t even make sense does it? Well, it’s complicated.

All the extra length of the LS compared to the 3.8 is to the front. Bellhousings are basically in the same spot. I already knew I was going to have to stretch the front a few inches to get the upper links around the balancer, then the radiator gets in the way. Can’t stretch it a few more inches to get out in front of the radiator because the links will still hit the radiator and I want to minimize the amount of stretching on a 4dr. Only other thing that can technically move is the balancer, but the firewall is in the way. Firewall’s move real easy when you cut them though. I need to see the firewall without the stock engine in the way. Also, I’m not quite ready to rip out the entire HVAC unit from the Jeep, so I need to see what’s going on on the inside between the HVAC unit and the firewall. So out came the engine and the dash, so I could look around. This also ties into the roll cage because I need to modify the subframe for the dash for the A-pillar bars.

Starting to pull dash

[IMG][/IMG]

What is this white gizmo that runs directly to a little box on the key switch? Doesn't say anything on it. Does it have to stay?

[IMG][/IMG]

Marking for the A-pillar tube (2"x .120"). Should leave the vent ducts untouched.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

This give an idea of where the A-pillar is going. The leg going up to the windshield will be straight. No funky bends where you don't want them.

[IMG][/IMG]

Dash out and cut for the A-pillar bar.

[IMG][/IMG]

Here's one of many "awe fuck" moments. If I cut out what I marked, I'll also lose the firewall mount part too. Plan is to add a small bracket to the cage bar that bolts to the dash subframe. Not the end of the world, but I never noticed it till after the other side was cut. Other side doesn't have this issue.

[IMG][/IMG]

Everything out of the way on the inside.

[IMG][/IMG]

Kevin

Last edited by gt1guy; 04-15-2018 at 08:37 AM.
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post #3 of 622 Old 07-20-2017, 03:42 PM
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About time you start a thread. That's one crazy parts list. I'm mighty jelly. Your pictures aren't showing up, for me at least.


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post #4 of 622 Old 07-20-2017, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckTheRipper View Post
About time you start a thread. That's one crazy parts list. I'm mighty jelly. Your pictures aren't showing up, for me at least.
Really? No pics. I just started using postimage.org for the hosting cause photobucket fucked everyone.

Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

Does this pic work?

[IMG][/IMG]

I'll wait to post anything else until I get this picture thing figured out.
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post #5 of 622 Old 07-20-2017, 06:57 PM
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Pics work for me... might be an issue of being on a phone, I can't see most pictures posted on this forum on my phone
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post #6 of 622 Old 07-20-2017, 10:23 PM
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Well fuck. I've never had a problem seeing pictures through Tapatalk.


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post #7 of 622 Old 07-20-2017, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christensent View Post
Pics work for me... might be an issue of being on a phone, I can't see most pictures posted on this forum on my phone
Ok, cool. I'll keep rolling then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckTheRipper View Post
Well fuck. I've never had a problem seeing pictures through Tapatalk.
Can you see the pic in post #4? That one I used the "Thumbnail for forums" address. All the others I used the "Hotlink for forums" address.

I have no clue what the difference is. I'm a computer tard.

Kevin
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post #8 of 622 Old 07-20-2017, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gt1guy View Post
Can you see the pic in post #4? That one I used the "Thumbnail for forums" address. All the others I used the "Hotlink for forums" address.



I have no clue what the difference is. I'm a computer tard.

Just checked on the mobile site and I can see them. Must be a Tapatalk thing. Gay. Sorry to clutter up your build; if a mod would delete my bullshit banter I'm sure gt1guy would appreciate it!
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post #9 of 622 Old 07-21-2017, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
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Here's where all the interference problems come from for moving the firewall back anything more than a inch and wanting to keep the HVAC unit intact.

[IMG][/IMG]

And this is actually where the problem is circled in red. This is what follows the angled section of the firewall, from the passenger foot well to the sunk in (deep part) in the center of the fire wall, when the ac lines and heater hoses enter.
At first I thought I could just hit it with a heat gun and slowly work it in. But I soon realized I would absolutely fuck that up and destroy the whole thing. It needs to move ~3" or so. No way that's happening with heat.

[IMG][/IMG]

Better shot that shows the angle it runs at.

[IMG][/IMG]

So I stripped of all the duct work and the big valve thing that switches from fresh air to re-circulation so I could reinstall it and actually see/feel what I'm dealing with as far as room.
No way to get good pics of what it looked like, but there is about 1.5" of room at the tightest spot. Still need more room.

So next up was the possibility of moving the entire dash back. That turns out to be really easy. I can move the bottom mounts for dash on the trans tunnel back 2” and the top dash mounts back an inch or so to get the room I need down by the blower/duct for the HVAC unit. Will have to make new foam seals between the ac lines/heater hoses at the firewall and also the seal between the fresh air intake to the blower. But I'm getting a solid 3.5" or more of clearance.

It was still hard to get pics but I just stuck the camera in a fired away.

[/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Here's the mount at the trans tunnel. Just have to move the bracket.

[IMG][/IMG]

Here's the top mount at the wind shield. There are two of these. I'll just extend the tabs holding the studs. I really don't think there will be much of a gap between the dash cover and the weather stripping. If there is one, a strip of closed cell foam should fill it.

[IMG][/IMG]

This is how the ac lines and heater hoses end up. If I really want to get fancy, I could move that section of the fire wall back to make it stock looking again.

[IMG][/IMG]

So, the dash comes back out again. Still need to cut the passenger side of the subframe for the cage A-pillar. I now have a good feeling about the firewall mods though.

How stupid would I be if I don't replace the heater core while everything is apart? Jeep only has 28k on it.

Kevin

Last edited by gt1guy; 04-15-2018 at 08:41 AM.
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post #10 of 622 Old 07-21-2017, 02:49 AM Thread Starter
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So now knowing I can get the HVAC shit out of the way. it's time to slap a real engine in and start the process again of seeing what I'm dealing with.

So the gutless piece of shit with only 28k on the clock came out. If the engine in my lawn mower ever dies, the 3.8 might get a new home.

[IMG][/IMG]

Even before I tacked the engine mounts in, I could tell they weren't going to work with the suspension I want to do. This pic is with the stock D30 and UCA. The new axle, with a truss and the triangulated upper link mount on top of that is much taller. 10" from tube C/L to center of link joint to be exact.

[IMG][/IMG]

The CTS-V front drive isn't going to work either. More on that later.

With the RPM mounts just tacked in, I tossed the engine/trans in it. Didn’t even bother to install the torque converter, because it’s all coming back out again. This is just information gathering work. Sure looks good though.

[IMG][/IMG]

After setting the engine down in the mounts I shimmed up the back of the trans until it was right up to the tunnel. Not touching it, but damn close. This was for two reasons. One was checking for pulling off a flat belly. The other was that raising the back on the trans actually pushes the heads farther away from the firewall. Flip side is it lowers the harmonic balancer a bit. Not much, but that's the direction it goes.

Top of the straight edge is touching the bottom of both frame rails. That's at least 6" between the top of the straightedge and where the trans mount bolts up.

[IMG][/IMG]

Front side of the trans pan. Inch or so of clearance.

[IMG][/IMG]

Engine to firewall.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Top of the bellhousing will get close when the engine is moved back.

[IMG][/IMG]

So it looks like I have plenty of room to move the drivetrain back 4" or so without getting into the HVAC crap. Another thing that will help is that this was done with mounts that shift the engine/trans over to the passenger side a inch and a quarter, just like stock. I won't have a steering box or brake booster in the way, so I"ll center it with the new engine mounts. I will gain room by shifting everything due to the shape of the firewall.

Kevin

Last edited by gt1guy; 04-15-2018 at 08:49 AM.
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post #11 of 622 Old 07-21-2017, 05:24 AM
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Ho lee shit.... lots of work ahead

You aren't worried about room in the cab moving the firewall and dash back 3" ?

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post #12 of 622 Old 07-21-2017, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkjeep View Post
Ho lee shit.... lots of work ahead

You aren't worried about room in the cab moving the firewall and dash back 3" ?
I've given it a lot of thought and I can't see it creating any real problems. It's really just angling it, more than it's moving straight back.

Where I'm thinking of "adjusting" the firewall won't really effect where your feet go. It will all be above that. If I have to raise where the trans tunnel meets the firewall, that's all behind the center of the dash.

The bottom center of the dash get the biggest move and that's directly over the trans tunnel. If I was keeping the stock center console, I'm pretty sure there'd be interference. I already know I can't reuse the stock console. The Hero3 runs triple sticks and the Winters shifter takes up quite a bit of room. So I already knew I'm going to have to do something different for a console.

Where the steering column meets the firewall, the bearing that bolts to the firewall rides on what looks like a nylon (it's probably plastic) sleeve. It seems to have quite a bit of fore and aft movement. I really don't think the steering wheel will end up moving much. It also tilts, so there's that.

Only thing I'm wondering about is the brake peddle. But that can be cut and welded in any position I want. I have short legs, so if the brake peddle gets a little closer, I welcome it.

I'll put the column back in for a test fit with the dash where I want it. Probably should stick the stock seat in too. Just to be sure.

Kevin
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post #13 of 622 Old 07-21-2017, 03:14 PM
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This sounds awesome. Cant wait to see it progress.

07 JKU, 14 bolt rear/ Teraflex 60 front, Tera Long Arm, King Coilovers, 40" MT/R-Ks, Antirock etc. 430HP LS3 engine swap. Cage and 14 bolt swap thread-
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post #14 of 622 Old 07-21-2017, 05:55 PM
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Intense build man good for you have fun with it
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post #15 of 622 Old 07-21-2017, 07:34 PM
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One heck of a way to build a heep. Always wondered about other options for cruise control.

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post #16 of 622 Old 07-21-2017, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Skinny Pedal Racing View Post
One heck of a way to build a heep. Always wondered about other options for cruise control.

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This is what the Rostra 250-3592 cruise controller looks like. It will find a home somewhere on the console.

[IMG][/IMG]

Kevin

Last edited by gt1guy; 04-15-2018 at 08:50 AM.
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post #17 of 622 Old 07-22-2017, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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What DKjeep said stuck with me, so I went ahead and re-installed the dash cover, steering column, wheel and the stock drivers seat, just to see if there was going to be any glaring problems with this plan.

Column bolted right back to the firewall just fine. Though you can see it's sitting farther down on its bushing.

[IMG][/IMG]

I never had the factory side pieces for the dash (had a Rockhard sport cage in it when I bought it) so I don't have anything to hold up and really see if there is much difference. Measuring the sportcage sides I got 7". Measuring the new area where it went I get 7.75". Just standing there staring at it, I can't tell if it looks different, I just know it has to be.

[IMG][/IMG]

More random pictures of how it sits.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Here's proof that it has moved. The white marks where I need to cut for the A-pillar bar were straight up and down when I made them. Not exactly straight now. Also means I have some trimming to do on the other side I already cut.

[IMG][/IMG]

Now for what I did notice.

Reaching where the radio goes seems a bit closer.

I can tell the brake peddle is quite a bit farther back when I pull it to the switch. The way it rotated, it got higher too. I'm going to want it forward a few inches and lower. I kind of expected that issue. It's also an easy fix. I'd imagine where the rod connects might need to be adjusted too.

There is a gap at the very top by the windshield.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

What I didn't realize is that the front edge of the top of the dash looks like this.

[IMG][/IMG]

Filling that gap with something that fits in the channel of the dash will be the fix.

It was a little more work, but now I know 100% that this plan will work. And I did it with pulling the bottom of the console out 3" instead of the 2" I had it at before. So I have even more room for engine setback if need be.

Kevin

Last edited by gt1guy; 04-15-2018 at 08:52 AM.
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post #18 of 622 Old 07-22-2017, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
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I also pulled off the coil packs. They'll either get relocated to the firewall out of the way or put back on. Depends on how things look after moving the engine back. I think the engine looks good without them.

[IMG][/IMG]

I already marked up the firewall for cutting. Need to get the engine back out and out of the way. Then the fun starts.

Kevin

Last edited by gt1guy; 04-15-2018 at 08:52 AM.
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post #19 of 622 Old 07-23-2017, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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I don't even know how long I stood there and starred at the marked up firewall, wondering if I really wanted to go down this road, or if I was going to screw it up.

[IMG][/IMG]

And then this happened.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

After deciding that the area at the top of the trans tunnel was going to give me grief when the engine slid back, I cut out a slot a couple inches up and back, removing the radius where it meets the firewall. That turned out to be a smart move.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Kevin

Last edited by gt1guy; 04-15-2018 at 08:53 AM.
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post #20 of 622 Old 07-23-2017, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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Next up was dealing with the engine mounts. I want to get the drivetrain centered in the chassis. There is more room behind the firewall on the drivers side than the passenger side, plus there isn't going to be a steering box or other interference in the engine compartment.

My measurements said the engine was shifted to passenger 1.25" when I installed it the way it should be.

Untouched mounts.

[IMG][/IMG]

Solution....remove 5/8ths from the drivers side and add 5/8ths to the passenger side engine mounts. (ya, I know)

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

I know what you're thinking and you're right. That right there is a big fuck up. Why I cut that 1.25" number in half, I have no idea. But I did and I never caught it until after I had the engine back in. Only saving grace is that they're still only temporary.

You'll also notice that the top ears are sitting up off the frame. That's because the frame is falling away from where the new location is. Mounts were moved back 4". They are sitting at the same height as they were in the original location. The frame is also getting wider at that point, so there was a big gap at the back of the mounts.

Kevin

Last edited by gt1guy; 04-15-2018 at 08:55 AM.
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post #21 of 622 Old 07-23-2017, 03:26 PM Thread Starter
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New engine location.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

Kevin

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post #22 of 622 Old 07-23-2017, 03:42 PM
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I don't even have words for how far you have dove off into this one. Can you access the rear spark plug on the passenger side with it tucked that far back in there?

Also don't get the clearances too tight around any portion of the engine or trans. It moves around quite a bit with the idle that it has.

Did you touch on why you had to abandon the accessory drive and whos drive is that?
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post #23 of 622 Old 07-23-2017, 11:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkjeep View Post
I don't even have words for how far you have dove off into this one. Can you access the rear spark plug on the passenger side with it tucked that far back in there?

Also don't get the clearances too tight around any portion of the engine or trans. It moves around quite a bit with the idle that it has.

Did you touch on why you had to abandon the accessory drive and whos drive is that?
I can't see there being a problem with access to the plug. The room I'll need to make for headers should cover the plug access pretty well. Also, I want to make part of the new firewall panels removable for access to the upper bellhousing bolts. There would be no way to get to them otherwise. So, worst case on the plugs, I could also have an access panel to get at them from the inside.

I tried to install the Sanderson headers, passenger side came closer to fitting than the drivers side. But, to run them, it will take a lot more cutting into the footwell than I want to do. I think I'll sell the Sandersons and pick up something that has the collector farther forward/lower and also the rear primary going forward. I have a feeling I'll find something made for a Vette that fits the bill. I think they basically have the same situation of engine/firewall.

Something like this. Hooker Blackheart shorty for a C6



I hear ya on the clearances. There is still a bunch of fine tuning I need to do on what was cut. I cut the bare minimum just to stuff it in there. I know I need to remove more of the trans tunnel, there's a spot just behind where I cut it that is making contact with the trans.

As far as the accessory drive goes ( I can already feel the headache returning). The low mount AC and the alternator were going to be completely in the way of the upper links. The RPM engine mounts are in the way too. The AC and Alt are in the way because the upper links converge in the center and run close to the balancer. The engine mounts are in the way because of the height of both the axle side and chassis side mounts for the uppers, combined with trying to pull this off at 3.5" of lift. This is in no way a knock on the RPM mounts. As you know, they're a well made piece that fit perfect when you put them where they're supposed to go.

The Vette offset drastically reduces your choices and options for where things get mounted.

I ended up going with the Goat Built Alt/Ps bracket. They had the narrowest setup that kept the bottom of the engine clear. They also happen to build the Ibex buggy chassis's so you could say it was designed for the double triangulated 4-link. Had to switch to the F-Body spacing though, so new water pump and balancer.

The AC comp bracket is for a LS1 from ICT billet. High and tight, that's why I got it. Runs the 7176 compressor. One of the few brackets for the F-Body offset I found.

So ya, I've replaced every single piece from the CTS-V drive. I just hope I can use it when the time comes to LS my old Camaro.

Kevin
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post #24 of 622 Old 07-24-2017, 07:04 AM
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As you know I went to the 7176 for clearance issues on my ctsv drive and it makes nice cold air so no worries there.

On the other hand this appears to be over your head, you should take it to the nearest dealership to be completed, lol.
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post #25 of 622 Old 07-24-2017, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkjeep View Post
As you know I went to the 7176 for clearance issues on my ctsv drive and it makes nice cold air so no worries there.

On the other hand this appears to be over your head, you should take it to the nearest dealership to be completed, lol.
Jon will probably say that too when he sees what I did to his engine mounts.

Have you driven yours yet?

Kevin

Last edited by gt1guy; 07-24-2017 at 12:04 PM.
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