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post #1 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 09:15 AM Thread Starter
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Ya know what would be awesome

a knuckle enabling you to do a hybrid 44/60 swap so you could take your rubi 44, add the 60 outer knuckle, and be able to run 35 spline outers and 8 lug.

Then 8 lug drilled rear shafts or adapters so you could also run 8 lug in the rear.

it would just make me happy *sigh*.

i know solid does a 44/60 hybrid, but i think it uses 60 inner knuckles as well...
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post #2 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 09:58 AM
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buy inner C from Reid, weld on, add rest of stuff, done.
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post #3 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcdoc14 View Post
buy inner C from Reid, weld on, add rest of stuff, done.
still need to 8 lug the rear... or is there something to do that?

if you keep the stock rear you still have a speedo... i'm just thinking out loud btw
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post #4 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 10:14 AM
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The weak link is still the inner knuckle. Whats the benefit of a 60 outer knuckle on a 44 inner C, tubing and housing.

The true benefit would be a 60 axle that accepts the outer knuckle of a 44 in my opinion.
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post #5 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 2k2wranglerx View Post
still need to 8 lug the rear... or is there something to do that?

if you keep the stock rear you still have a speedo... i'm just thinking out loud btw
swap the rear for a 60, 14 bolt or a built 9. If you are running a 44/60 hybred front your rear 44 is now weaker than it
Run a single sensor on a single tone ring on whatever wheel your choose, or a custom tone ring on the T-case output, or a set from River Raider, or a 14 bolt that already has tone rings........

ya ..there are a few ways to skin this cat
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post #6 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
The weak link is still the inner knuckle. Whats the benefit of a 60 outer knuckle on a 44 inner C, tubing and housing.

The true benefit would be a 60 axle that accepts the outer knuckle of a 44 in my opinion.
my buddy and i are looking for big wheels/tires for his jk now (39.5" and bigger) and you just find so much 8 lug stuff ya know.

what's a hub conversion on a jk 44? like 1500 bucks? imagine being able to go to the local pick and pull and pull everything but the knuckles that you would need to convert to 8 lug outers, lockout hubs, and 3/4 or 1 ton brakes for 2-300 bucks!

Plus it would give you sooooo many sweet options like hummer beadlocks, etc.
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post #7 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcdoc14 View Post
swap the rear for a 60, 14 bolt or a built 9. If you are running a 44/60 hybred front your rear 44 is now weaker than it
Run a single sensor on a single tone ring on whatever wheel your choose, or a custom tone ring on the T-case output, or a set from River Raider, or a 14 bolt that already has tone rings........

ya ..there are a few ways to skin this cat
will a JK ecu read from a 14 bolt tone ring?

we kicked around doing a full width swap, but the time/$ invested was too high at the moment.
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post #8 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2k2wranglerx View Post
my buddy and i are looking for big wheels/tires for his jk now (39.5" and bigger) and you just find so much 8 lug stuff ya know.

what's a hub conversion on a jk 44? like 1500 bucks? imagine being able to go to the local pick and pull and pull everything but the knuckles that you would need to convert to 8 lug outers, lockout hubs, and 3/4 or 1 ton brakes for 2-300 bucks!

Plus it would give you sooooo many sweet options like hummer beadlocks, etc.
You can always get recentered beadlocks that will fit on the JK. usmcdoc has it on his I believe. Here is the thread:
https://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16515


I dont see why 39.5 and bigger requires an 8 bolt pattern.
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post #9 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
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will a JK ecu read from a 14 bolt tone ring?
No I dont believe that it will. You would have to get the JK tone rings machined in.
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post #10 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 2k2wranglerx View Post
my buddy and i are looking for big wheels/tires for his jk now (39.5" and bigger) and you just find so much 8 lug stuff ya know.

what's a hub conversion on a jk 44? like 1500 bucks? imagine being able to go to the local pick and pull and pull everything but the knuckles that you would need to convert to 8 lug outers, lockout hubs, and 3/4 or 1 ton brakes for 2-300 bucks!

Plus it would give you sooooo many sweet options like hummer beadlocks, etc.
umm..I am running hummer beadlocks

and why do you need 8 lug for a 40" tire?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2k2wranglerx View Post
will a JK ecu read from a 14 bolt tone ring?
yes, sorta
a tone or reluctor ring is a tone/reluctor ring, the pickup "picks up" on the high points or when metal is close. it does not care who made it or even if it is round or flat like a fan.
Shit, I am pretty sure you could even pick it up off of the ring gear itself

The computer picks up the signal, how ever many "teeth" get detected, times the tires size in X number of sec = wheel speed and distance.

the trick is getting the tooth count right in relation to what is factory, OR fooling the computer into thinking the tooth count is right.

You just need to get the sensor mounted right and spaced right.
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post #11 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 10:41 AM
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I still don't see why you can't take some salvage 1 tons off of a dodge, have em shortened and roll with it, they have the same abs tone ring deal and if you get lucky enough to find a power wagon it will have the lockers.

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post #12 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcdoc14 View Post
umm..I am running hummer beadlocks

and why do you need 8 lug for a 40" tire?



yes, sorta
a tone or reluctor ring is a tone/reluctor ring, the pickup "picks up" on the high points or when metal is close. it does not care who made it or even if it is round or flat like a fan.
Shit, I am pretty sure you could even pick it up off of the ring gear itself

The computer picks up the signal, how ever many "teeth" get detected, times the tires size in X number of sec = wheel speed and distance.

the trick is getting the tooth count right in relation to what is factory, OR fooling the computer into thinking the tooth count is right.

You just need to get the sensor mounted right and spaced right.
recentered H1's sure, but they're not exactly cheap.

You don't need 8 lug to run 40's. but i keep finding "5 40" swampers on hummer beadlocks for 1200 bucks" type deals.

I just think it would be cool. How much is a hub conversion for the rubi 44? how much is a big brake kit? my 1 ton brakes on my front 60 stop my 40's on a dime. NO problems. How nice would it be to have 1 ton brakes on a jk?

you could accomplish this plus have stronger unit bearings (not that they're necessarily needed) with all off the shelf parts... no need to order specific rotors/calipers/pads from a company. Just walk in and buy what you need. Seems to me that other than the knuckle and possibly steering, it would be an economical way to do it.
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post #13 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
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I still don't see why you can't take some salvage 1 tons off of a dodge, have em shortened and roll with it, they have the same abs tone ring deal and if you get lucky enough to find a power wagon it will have the lockers.
most people try to find earlier ford axles with the longer short side so that you have room for spring perches.

late model fords have the shorter short side and it's hard to fit perches in there (what's on my TJ) so then you have to run coilovers. Plus if you're kingpin you probably want chevy outers anyway

And if you shorten your long side you have to run a custom length shaft, which sucks. I ran them in my old trail rig and i was always worried about breaking because i'd have to re-order and wait on new shafts, etc.

i'm not saying that a hybrid is a better option. i just think it'd be cool to be able to toss an outer knuckle on it and run upgraded outers/hubs/brakes/unit bearings/etc.
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post #14 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2k2wranglerx View Post
recentered H1's sure, but they're not exactly cheap.
http://www.trailworthyfab.com/224-12...l-w-Tires.html

12 bolt recentered with 37 surplus tires: 344 each = 1720.
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post #15 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ALASHA View Post
http://www.trailworthyfab.com/224-12...l-w-Tires.html

12 bolt recentered with 37 surplus tires: 344 each = 1720.
vs 150 bucks for all 4 non-recentered.... or the 4 recentered 8 lug ones with brand new 39.5" swampers on pirate right now for about the same $....




what got me thinking about this was we did this to my buddy's waggy 44 to match the narrow rear 60 that he had. it was a piece of cake.

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post #16 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2k2wranglerx View Post
vs 150 bucks for all 4 non-recentered.... or the 4 recentered 8 lug ones with brand new 39.5" swampers on pirate right now for about the same $....




what got me thinking about this was we did this to my buddy's waggy 44 to match the narrow rear 60 that he had. it was a piece of cake.
are you doing this for cheap wheels/tires or stronger axles?


If you can do a 44/60 hybred I am pretty sure you can cut and weld in your own new hummer centers in whatever bolt pattern you need. Centers are cheap, doing it yourself is cheap.
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post #17 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by usmcdoc14 View Post
are you doing this for cheap wheels/tires or stronger axles?


If you can do a 44/60 hybred I am pretty sure you can cut and weld in your own new hummer centers in whatever bolt pattern you need. Centers are cheap, doing it yourself is cheap.
oh, i should clarify, we went 3/4 ton 44 outer knuckles onto the waggy 44. not 60's... which actually, while i'm thinking about it....

I wonder how close 3/4 ton outer 44 knuckles are to JK 44 knuckles? that would accomplish the same difference... the only problem i see is the JK 44 uses that goofy sized ujoint... hmmmmm

I just think it'd be a nice upgrade. You won't gain any real axle strength, but you would get stronger brakes and the ability to find real flat top knuckles for high steer. You get beefier unit bearings, as well as a hub conversion for a relatively inexpensive price.

PLUS it gives you options. there's just so much 8 lug stuff out there than 44 stuff.
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post #18 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 11:49 AM
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oh, i should clarify, we went 3/4 ton 44 outer knuckles onto the waggy 44. not 60's... which actually, while i'm thinking about it....

I wonder how close 3/4 ton outer 44 knuckles are to JK 44 knuckles? that would accomplish the same difference... the only problem i see is the JK 44 uses that goofy sized ujoint... hmmmmm

I just think it'd be a nice upgrade. You won't gain any real axle strength, but you would get stronger brakes and the ability to find real flat top knuckles for high steer. You get beefier unit bearings, as well as a hub conversion for a relatively inexpensive price.

PLUS it gives you options. there's just so much 8 lug stuff out there than 44 stuff.
ok now I am thinking your idea is to put it nice...not worth it.

Jk 44 with 60 outers, ya.

JK 44 with anything else outers? fuck no.

Brakes? not so much. if you feel froggy (and I will after deployment) you will see that all your race brake hats come in 5 on 5. some hats/rotors and some 4 piston willwoods and figure the brakets (hard part) and it will drag your shit faster than anything factory 8 lug.
For half the effort.

High steer? Slap some Reid knuckes on and be done.

Hub conversion? Buy a spintec or do like me and not care about locking hubs. they are just something else to break.

Beefier unit bearings? umm..no. not really. Step up to a 60 if you want bigger unit bearings.
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post #19 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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ok now I am thinking your idea is to put it nice...not worth it.

Jk 44 with 60 outers, ya.

JK 44 with anything else outers? fuck no.

Brakes? not so much. if you feel froggy (and I will after deployment) you will see that all your race brake hats come in 5 on 5. some hats/rotors and some 4 piston willwoods and figure the brakets (hard part) and it will drag your shit faster than anything factory 8 lug.
For half the effort.

High steer? Slap some Reid knuckes on and be done.

Hub conversion? Buy a spintec or do like me and not care about locking hubs. they are just something else to break.

Beefier unit bearings? umm..no. not really. Step up to a 60 if you want bigger unit bearings.
but here's my thought.

say you have a bone stock 44 and you're getting ready to do shafts/steering/brakes anyway.

you're gonna have $ into the reid knuckles
You're gonna have $ into the big brake kit
you're gonna have $ into the hub kit if you want it
You're goint to have $ into steering anyway (the currie is 800 bucks for example)

If you can do all that for say, 1/2 the price... i don't see why you wouldn't

Say the knuckles are the same price as reid's
F350 calipers are 45 bucks each,
rotors are 34 each,
unit bearings 75 each,
Hubs are 129/pair,
stub shafts are 250/pair (or 50 each used on ebay)
1/4 wall tubing with 1 ton TRE's and weld in inserts: 56 in inserts, another 100 or so in tubing

So you're 680 - 800 bucks plus knuckle for bigger/better 2 piston brakes, manual locking hubs, and 8 lug. Seems like it would be a really cool option if you did that an say a 14 bolt rear. bolt patterns would match, etc, and you can run 8 lug wheels which are PLENTIFUL in the offroad community (used they're everywhere)

If you did the same thing utilizing the stock JK

wilwood brake kit: 2895.63
spyntek hub conversion kit: 1450
Currie steering: 800 - find me another one that offers real 1 ton tre's and that's as beefy as heavy wall dom and tre inserts

so you're 5100 bucks for the same thing (although the wilwoods are obviously gonig to stop better)

seems to me like it'd be a cool upgrade




think about this too. Say you have a 14 bolt rear laying around (or the local pick and pull does sell them for 150 bucks). You can probably get close to the same WMS using DRW rear hubs on it.

You're 8 lug in the rear if you swap that in. seems like WAY WAY WAY less work and $ to do the 8 lug outer swap in the front so you can run matching wheels... plus then you're 1 ton rear, you have essentially a 3/4 ton front 44, and you're probably 800 into the front axle (rather than realistically 3-4 grand for a 60) and you can probably get the rear in for under a grand.

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post #20 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 12:28 PM
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What F350 had a dana 44 AND unit bearings?

anyway, your math forgot the cost of new inner C's, cutting and welding those on.
Also a steering arm as the JK Reid knuckle has cast in and the 44 knuckle requires an arm.

but your price is a little off.
willwood disks/hats and rotors: $500 give or take (forged dynalites, aluminum hats, and whoevers brand rotor) Make your own mount, "kits" are most of the time a joke.

Don't need the spintec.

Steering: go look at the size of a JK TRE and see if it matters I am running a PolyPerformance chromoly tie rod.


If you are going to hack off outers and go with new shit I see no point in using "old" dana 44 stuff. You may as well go 60 outers and be done with it.
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post #21 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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What F350 had a dana 44 AND unit bearings?

anyway, your math forgot the cost of new inner C's, cutting and welding those on.
Also a steering arm as the JK Reid knuckle has cast in and the 44 knuckle requires an arm.

but your price is a little off.
willwood disks/hats and rotors: $500 give or take (forged dynalites, aluminum hats, and whoevers brand rotor) Make your own mount, "kits" are most of the time a joke.

Don't need the spintec.

Steering: go look at the size of a JK TRE and see if it matters I am running a PolyPerformance chromoly tie rod.


If you are going to hack off outers and go with new shit I see no point in using "old" dana 44 stuff. You may as well go 60 outers and be done with it.
no f350 had a 44 in the front. But you can use the bigger calipers either way, substitute f250 in there and they're about the same price.

I'm thinking it would be awesome if a company would make an outer knuckle that would bolt to the factory inner C so you could run the bigger 3/4 ton stuff. The only welding required would be the TRE adapters for the steering.

the JK's stock TRE's aren't that great. I've already replaced 3 on my buddy griff's. he's BDS lift on 37's and rarely wheels, and jeepnick's had all 4 of his go (including his AEV one), although he did have deathwobble for a while. That's why he's got the currie now. no more little TRE BS

and it's fine you don't need spintec, it's just a nice option to have. PLUS if you get warn hubs you can buy the "fuse" so that you break that before you kill the gears/shafts.


pads and rotors make a difference, but you're still using the factory single piston caliper. show me a wilwood setup for 500 bucks

Last edited by 2k2wranglerx; 07-16-2010 at 12:44 PM.
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post #22 of 23 Old 07-16-2010, 08:44 PM
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show me a wilwood setup for 500 bucks
rodger that

Brackets will have to be custom made, this would be trial and error but not hard.

First is figuring your hat offset, I don't have a JK rotor in my hands so we will give a rough estimate.
Now we will do front first.
Hat, I am assuming it is less than 3" so you will have to use an aluminum hat, your choice of Wilwood http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwoo...Hats,1366.html ($80 each) or US Brake http://www.speedwaymotors.com/US-Bra...lts,40525.html and if you are lucky and its a 3" offset you can go steel http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Stampe...fset,1995.html at $30 each.
But most likely its not 3"

Mounting bolts for the rotor are $5 a set

12" normal rotor http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedw...ors,14004.html $30ea
Bigger/drilled/slotted/whatever will run you more. But these will do.

Calipers, why skimp, Wilwood forged Dynalite 4 pistons
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwoo...ors,32601.html $125ea

so hats $160
Rotors $60
Calipers $250
Bolts assorted $20
Pads $30-$50

Total price $540


Brackets can be cheated and get pre-cut ones and weld on what you need to adapt it to the JK holes or make them from scratch. Rear can be done the same, same price but add a set of Wilwood spot calipers ($60ea) for your parking brake lines that will easily adapt.


Now, some company needs to get off thier ass and do a package of this shit and bitchslap these "big brake" kits that are on the market.
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post #23 of 23 Old 07-19-2010, 12:10 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by usmcdoc14 View Post
rodger that

Brackets will have to be custom made, this would be trial and error but not hard.

First is figuring your hat offset, I don't have a JK rotor in my hands so we will give a rough estimate.
Now we will do front first.
Hat, I am assuming it is less than 3" so you will have to use an aluminum hat, your choice of Wilwood http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwoo...Hats,1366.html ($80 each) or US Brake http://www.speedwaymotors.com/US-Bra...lts,40525.html and if you are lucky and its a 3" offset you can go steel http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Stampe...fset,1995.html at $30 each.
But most likely its not 3"

Mounting bolts for the rotor are $5 a set

12" normal rotor http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedw...ors,14004.html $30ea
Bigger/drilled/slotted/whatever will run you more. But these will do.

Calipers, why skimp, Wilwood forged Dynalite 4 pistons
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwoo...ors,32601.html $125ea

so hats $160
Rotors $60
Calipers $250
Bolts assorted $20
Pads $30-$50

Total price $540


Brackets can be cheated and get pre-cut ones and weld on what you need to adapt it to the JK holes or make them from scratch. Rear can be done the same, same price but add a set of Wilwood spot calipers ($60ea) for your parking brake lines that will easily adapt.


Now, some company needs to get off thier ass and do a package of this shit and bitchslap these "big brake" kits that are on the market.
then this begs the question... why has nobody done it yet?

and you're still non locking hubs (which i know i know you don't care) and you still have to custom fab brake caliper tabs instead of just bolting stuff on.
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