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post #1 of 46 Old 07-08-2010, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Battle of the Gussets and Sleeves

I have been looking at inner C gusset kits and inner axle sleeve kits for my dana 30. I have been looking at the poly performance gussets and sleeves and the offroad evolution gussets and sleeves. Which are better? Also, is there anything else I can do to strengthen my dana 30 for 35s?

Last edited by bluejk09; 07-08-2010 at 05:42 PM.
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post #2 of 46 Old 07-08-2010, 05:38 PM
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Apples to apples. Teraflex has 'em too.

Axle sleeves- inner & outer + C-gussets are a good start, but I would also look into re-enforcing the LCA mounts with weld-on skids (Poly Performance), cam-bolt eliminating washers (Poly Performance), and a track-bar axle mount gusset kit (Rock Krawler).

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post #3 of 46 Old 07-08-2010, 05:54 PM
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I would go with the inner c gussets an axle tube clam shell and a truss. If you do the clam shell I wouldn't waste the time or money on inner sleeves. The problem is the truss and clam shell is said to only be for a dana 44 but I am about to see if I can make them work for someones dana 30. I should have them next week and I can let you know how everything turn out. Phil D from TrailDuty can get you fixed up with the parts.


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post #4 of 46 Old 07-08-2010, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
Apples to apples. Teraflex has 'em too.

Axle sleeves- inner & outer + C-gussets are a good start, but I would also look into re-enforcing the LCA mounts with weld-on skids (Poly Performance), cam-bolt eliminating washers (Poly Performance), and a track-bar axle mount gusset kit (Rock Krawler).
Thanks for the suggestions. The Poly Performance sleeves claim a 59% increase in strength, while the ORE sleeves claim a 30% increase in strength. The Poly Performance gussets are made from 1/4" high strength carbon steel, while the ORE are made from 3/16" CNC bent steel. The Polys appear to claim a bigger percent of strength increase in the sleeves and use thicker steel for the gussets. Am I making too big of a deal out of this? Does it make that much of a difference?
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post #5 of 46 Old 07-08-2010, 06:01 PM
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Sleeves are sleeves. Ours are a good deal: http://benchmark-designs.com/product...le_sleeves.php

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post #6 of 46 Old 07-08-2010, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bodyguy View Post
I would go with the inner c gussets an axle tube clam shell and a truss. If you do the clam shell I wouldn't waste the time or money on inner sleeves. The problem is the truss and clam shell is said to only be for a dana 44 but I am about to see if I can make them work for someones dana 30. I should have them next week and I can let you know how everything turn out. Phil D from TrailDuty can get you fixed up with the parts.
Thanks. That sounds great. Could you pm me when you know?
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post #7 of 46 Old 07-08-2010, 06:06 PM
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Thanks. That sounds great. Could you pm me when you know?
you got it


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post #8 of 46 Old 07-08-2010, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluejk09 View Post
Thanks for the suggestions. The Poly Performance sleeves claim a 59% increase in strength, while the ORE sleeves claim a 30% increase in strength. The Poly Performance gussets are made from 1/4" high strength carbon steel, while the ORE are made from 3/16" CNC bent steel. The Polys appear to claim a bigger percent of strength increase in the sleeves and use thicker steel for the gussets. Am I making too big of a deal out of this? Does it make that much of a difference?
The Poly Performance C-gussets are 3/16" just like the ORE. I have them and measured them. I have no idea about the different claims in strength....again apples to apples imo.

Either are going to yield the same results when welded properly in place.

Like bodyguy suggested- sleeve just the outers. I wasn't aware that no one was making an inner that would work with a D30,

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post #9 of 46 Old 07-08-2010, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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Like bodyguy suggested- sleeve just the outers. I wasn't aware that no one was making an inner that would work with a D30,
Do you mean axle truss?
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post #10 of 46 Old 07-08-2010, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluejk09 View Post
Do you mean axle truss?
Whoops- I meant to say inner C-gusset not the axle sleeve. Sorry for the confusion.

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post #11 of 46 Old 07-08-2010, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluejk09 View Post
Do you mean axle truss?
Quote:
Originally Posted by StubEXrube View Post
Whoops- I meant to say inner C-gusset not the axle sleeve. Sorry for the confusion.
yeah that was a typo on me also the gussets will work on both.


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post #12 of 46 Old 07-08-2010, 10:54 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your help everyone. I am new to Jeeps and appreciate all the help. I just want to get a few more things straight.

1. Same question with few more specifics: What do you think would be the best choice for strengthening my d30 if I plan to put on 35s with no plans to ever go bigger. I plan on only taking the JK offroad a couple of times a year for some easy trails (99% street use as its my dd). Do you still think that c gussets and an axle truss with clam shell would be the best option? Or could I get away with just c gussets and inner sleeves?
2. What is an axle tube clam shell? If I used a truss and c gussets, but no clam shell, would I need to install inner sleeves?
3. Will 5.13s really be ok in my d30 for 99% street use or will the teeth break? Do I have to be easy on the skinny pedal on road too or only offroad?
4. Do I need to upgrade axle shafts for mainly street use with some easy trails a couple times per year?
5. I know bodyguy suggested going to TrailDuty for the parts. Does anyone else have experience with any others? Would the treks jk d30 front factory truss be good combined with c gussets? What about the r-se bombshell kit which includes the inner sleeve kit, the outer sleeve kit, and a pair of gussets?

Sorry for all the questions
Thanks,
bluejk09

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post #13 of 46 Old 07-09-2010, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluejk09 View Post
Thanks for your help everyone. I am new to Jeeps and appreciate all the help. I just want to get a few more things straight.

1. Same question with few more specifics: What do you think would be the best choice for strengthening my d30 if I plan to put on 35s with no plans to ever go bigger. I plan on only taking the JK offroad a couple of times a year for some easy trails (99% street use as its my dd). Do you still think that c gussets and an axle truss with clam shell would be the best option? Or could I get away with just c gussets and inner sleeves? I would go with both the outer and inner axle sleeves if applicable for a D30. I would also do the C-gussets if applicable for a D30. The inner and outer sleeves are used in conjunction with each other. You will have to drill out and plug-weld along the tube to do the inners, so you would install these first, then the outers. The sleeves will minimize the chance of the axle tubes twisting upon load. The C-gussets will re-enforce the outer knuckle C's to minimize the chance of bending these which in turn can throw off your alignment and camber angle....leading to possible tire-wear and vibration issues.
2. What is an axle tube clam shell? If I used a truss and c gussets, but no clam shell, would I need to install inner sleeves? The clam-shell design refers to the outer axle tube sleeves. The outer sleeve can not be manufactured as a single tube, so they are made in halves. The upper half is welded in place as is the lower half....creating a clam-shell design. A truss (like the Treks Off-Road one-piece truss that runs along the top of the axle tube) is different than the sleeves but essentially does the same thing- preventing the axle-tube from twisting upon load. If you use a truss than you will not use an outer sleeve kit. It is still debated whether or not using an inner and outer sleeve is overkill, but most will recommend that you do both....again, in conjunction with one another. For your particular application and driving (primarily on-road), you might want to consider a weld-on truss, as it will be cheaper and easier to install. Rock Krawler also has a D30 truss but I believe that you will have to modify/ cut the upper control-arm mount or the truss itself, to get it to work properly- idk.
3. Will 5.13s really be ok in my d30 for 99% street use or will the teeth break? Do I have to be easy on the skinny pedal on road too or only offroad? Using 5:13's in a D30 has been debated many times. Regardless, I would certainly stay off the skinny if possible. I think if you are only doing mild wheeling a few times a year, that you will be okay- still a weak point though.
4. Do I need to upgrade axle shafts for mainly street use with some easy trails a couple times per year? I wouldn't worry about the shafts atm. I would concentrate on the outer C's and the axle tubes first. jmo
5. I know bodyguy suggested going to TrailDuty for the parts. Does anyone else have experience with any others? Would the treks jk d30 front factory truss be good combined with c gussets? What about the r-se bombshell kit which includes the inner sleeve kit, the outer sleeve kit, and a pair of gussets? Either of these choices would work and would be far better than the stock D30 with no re-enforcement. I also support Trail Duty. You can look elsewhere and see what you find, but most (as myself) will usually only recommend JKO vendors, as they have gre4at reputations for quality and/ or customer service and tech support.

Sorry for all the questions
Thanks,
bluejk09
No problem on the questions. Hopefully some members will chime in here as well, and offer something that I am not thinking of atm. As always- jmo.

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post #14 of 46 Old 07-09-2010, 05:39 AM
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Go ahead and use 5.13's for the front---yes it has been debated many times, but it isnt nearly as weak as some people claim. Matter of fact--there are some here that will even go as far as saying that they havent seen a broken gearset unless the install was f-ed up to begin with.

I think you'll be fine---I would still learn the proper way of crawling through obsticles instead of ramming the skinny pedal.

--BTW yes there are companies out there that make a D30 inner sleeve---River Raider somes immediatly to mind. However I was under the impression that both the "Next Gen" D30 and D44s had the exact same dimensions except for the inner carrier etc....Too lazy to do a search right now, but I remember hearing that multiple times.

I would Inner, Outter and then C-Gusset the axle. Honestly though, I think you will be just fine (more than fine) if you just do a quick Inner job. Unless you plan on running larger than 35's (OH MY GOD, NOW IVE STARTED A "YOU CAN RUN 37's vs. No you cant" thread stealer......

Dont drink the kool-aide that people are pushing..these axles are stronger than people give them credit for. Remember a couple of years ago when everyone wanted a D44 or 30 as a replacement for their stock TJ axles so they could run a "BIG" tire....well now everybody HAS to have a D60 to run the same tires......me thinks there is a lot of kool aide going around.......

That and there is a different approach to wheeling these days...It used to be about finesse and skill--now people just romp the skinny pedal...
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post #15 of 46 Old 07-09-2010, 06:17 AM
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I can't speak for the poly product, though, I do know that from what I read that poly is the tits. I plan on looking at some poly stuff during my next round. However, I just had the ORE inner sleeves, C-gussets and LCA skids installed in my 30. I also added the BDS trackbar mount gusset (axle side) and RCV shafts. I plan on moving to 37's, and am quite comfortable that I should not have any issues. I also geared to 4.88's, and mine is a daily driver. I love them. However, I do have a 2-door 6-speed. Autos are usually recommended with 5.13's, especially on an unlimited.

ORE's kit was very stout, however, I really couldn't tell you the difference between theirs and the poly kit. I don't think you could go wrong either way.

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post #16 of 46 Old 07-09-2010, 09:02 AM
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check out post number 5.....this is what poly's will look like
https://www.jkowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32522
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post #17 of 46 Old 07-09-2010, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluejk09 View Post
Thanks for your help everyone. I am new to Jeeps and appreciate all the help. I just want to get a few more things straight.

1. What do you think would be the best choice for strengthening my d30 if I plan to put on 35s with no plans to ever go bigger. I plan on only taking the JK offroad a couple of times a year for some easy trails (99% street use as its my dd).

I have to say, for your intended use I wouldn't do anything other than the 5.13 gears. Just run what you've got, and I don't think there will be a problem. There are literally thousands and thousands of JKs running around the street right now with that set up, and a fair amount of them also see some "easy trails". You guys make it sound like a Jeep couldn't make it out of the driveway without first reinforcing the front axle. Why in the world would anyone buy a Jeep anyway?

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post #18 of 46 Old 07-09-2010, 09:46 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bodyguy View Post
I would go with the inner c gussets an axle tube clam shell and a truss. If you do the clam shell I wouldn't waste the time or money on inner sleeves. The problem is the truss and clam shell is said to only be for a dana 44 but I am about to see if I can make them work for someones dana 30. I should have them next week and I can let you know how everything turn out. Phil D from TrailDuty can get you fixed up with the parts.
I looked on TrailDuty's website and could not find the parts. Do you have a link you can post for the truss and clam shell?
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post #19 of 46 Old 07-09-2010, 09:57 AM Thread Starter
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No problem on the questions. Hopefully some members will chime in here as well, and offer something that I am not thinking of atm. As always- jmo.
Thanks for all of your help! Its my understanding that gear teeth usually break when the tires are spinning with no traction and then suddenly find traction. So if you are at a dead stop on the road and accelerate fast, will that put the same level stress on the gears, or not as much?

Just to make sure that I understand correctly: an axle truss (like the treks or rock krawler) with c gussets, but without inner sleeves will be the best option for me.

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post #20 of 46 Old 07-09-2010, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by henthorn View Post
I would Inner, Outter and then C-Gusset the axle. Honestly though, I think you will be just fine (more than fine) if you just do a quick Inner job. Unless you plan on running larger than 35's (OH MY GOD, NOW IVE STARTED A "YOU CAN RUN 37's vs. No you cant" thread stealer......
haha I never plan to go bigger than 35s so don't worry. I think I will do inners, outers, and c gusssets just for the added insurance.

I also thought that the d44 and d30 had the same outer dimensions except for the interior stuff. Wouldn't that mean that all those trusses and outer sleeves that say that they support the d44 only would also work with the d30?

Last edited by bluejk09; 07-09-2010 at 10:07 AM.
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post #21 of 46 Old 07-09-2010, 11:05 AM
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So if you are at a dead stop on the road and accelerate fast, will that put the same level stress on the gears, or not as much?
No, much less. It's like the difference in G-forces between accelerating to 60 from a dead stop and hitting a brick wall at 60.



Quote:
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haha I never plan to go bigger than 35s so don't worry. I think I will do inners, outers, and c gusssets just for the added insurance.

I also thought that the d44 and d30 had the same outer dimensions except for the interior stuff. Wouldn't that mean that all those trusses and outer sleeves that say that they support the d44 only would also work with the d30?

Inners & C-Gussets will be a great setup for 35s or even 37s.

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post #22 of 46 Old 07-09-2010, 04:14 PM
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I'm about to do a re-gear to 5:13's this month at the time i will be welding in the tera flex sleeves, poly gussets, throwing in the superior chro shafts. I have all the parts just not any time lately...i take a bunch of pics.

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post #23 of 46 Old 07-10-2010, 03:47 AM
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I swear you guys are so worried about your front axles bending. I have a 2dr 6speed with 3.21 gears and 33's and I have put it places people said it would never make. I have jumped it, aired it, and pushed it through crevasses and the only thing I did was the ball joints and carrier, but only because I broke a couple stub axles. These new generation 30s are way strong then the old ones. I'm not even going to gusset mine.
By the way I did win the tough truck competition here locally even if I was disqualified.

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post #24 of 46 Old 07-10-2010, 06:28 AM
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I'm thinking your axle housing is already bent, and you don't know it. I would suggest having it checked.

But I agree with you otherwise though. His intended use is: "I plan on only taking the JK offroad a couple of times a year for some easy trails (99% street use as its my dd)." I think he is totally wasting his money on an upgrade he doesn't need. Like I said, there are literally thousands and thousands of Jeeps running around with Dana 30 front ends that are not having any problems. He is using it for a grocery getter, not for jumping in tough truck competitions. I think his Jeep will make it out of his driveway without bending his front axle.

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post #25 of 46 Old 07-10-2010, 01:50 PM
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I swear you guys are so worried about your front axles bending. I have a 2dr 6speed with 3.21 gears and 33's and I have put it places people said it would never make. I have jumped it, aired it, and pushed it through crevasses and the only thing I did was the ball joints and carrier, but only because I broke a couple stub axles. These new generation 30s are way strong then the old ones. I'm not even going to gusset mine.
By the way I did win the tough truck competition here locally even if I was disqualified.
Well, I bent my inner knuckle from hitting a 70lb deer.....had I had gussets on my knuckle for 65.00 I wouldn't be swapping out my entire axle housing.....
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